At least part of the Performance problem

In L4, if I have "Interesting Words" feature open, then typing in the product is painfully slow. Typing in the command window, or in "Notes" or even just renaming a layout, has a long feedback delay.

However, if I remove "Interesting Words" from the guide the system speeds up and typing is almost normal.

So, I ran through most of the features while having ESV, Reader's Companion, Notes, and Literary Typing on the screen. Then I tested each of the following features one at a time, removing it after the test. The test was to simply type in the command window.Yes I let each window complete its task before testing.

Features that cause typing to slow down to a crawl:

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Power Lookup
Interesting Words

Features that don't slow the system down, just by being up:

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Biblical Things
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Comments

Steve Sando

This is almost funny, If I add the reading list in Calendar form, the system is fine. However, if I switch my reading list to 'List" then the system gets hosed and typing is slow.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/34757#Comment_34757

This is almost funny, If I add the reading list in Calendar form, the system is fine. However, if I switch my reading list to 'List" then the system gets hosed and typing is slow.

Good catch Steve. I hope the programmers are reading this. There's something odd going on here. Hopefully isolating the issue as you have, may help them narrow down the problem and hopefully solve it.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/34763#Comment_34763

Good catch Steve. I hope the programmers are reading this.

We are--thanks for the excellent bug report. We'll do some investigation.

sdfsdfsdfdf

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35219#Comment_35219

Great Bradley!

Then I'll give you another tidbit that might help. When one of those culprits are on the screen, the CPU isn't showing any unusual activity. In otherwords, it's not like the feature is sucking up the CPU. The trouble is only visible when typing. So, it's not like there's a run away thread.

In fact it appears the product doesn't multi-thread much anyway.

I also monitor events with MS Process Monitor. I don't see any additional activity on the disk or network when those features are up and I am typing. (However, the SQLitte access for preferences seems a bit excessive.)

Oh yeah, one other thing that may or may not help. I collected a Logos Log for this situation. There were no log entries made while typing. So it didn't hit any code that logs stuff.

Bradley, I don't know if that helps, but I hope it gives something useful. I'll refrain from giving possible places to look for the trouble - I always hated it when customers attempted diagnostics.

Steve

Damian McGrath

Features that cause typing to slow down to a crawl:

Cited By

Power Lookup

Interesting Words

Steve, can I assume that all of these are set to "Follow" when they cause the typing slow down?

Bruce Reisdorph

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35439#Comment_35439

I've been reading other posts regarding Logos 4 being slow.

Is it possible that some of us are experiencing this and some are not. Some comments are about such things as searches being slow or Logos being a little sluggish.

At least for me, we are not talking about sluggish or a little slower then logos 3. When the problem exists for me Logos is unusable. You can't type, select, change tabs, use a slider.... without 2-20 second delays. The CPU usage is 60%. Logos is trying to do something and is bound up. I can not even drag the logos window smoothly on the screen.

When Logos is in this state, I can open other programs and even with the cpu usage in the 60's (it is logos usage) the other programs run perfectly. ONLY Logos 4 is having the problem.

AND... on occasion I can run Logos when it is working correctly. When it works it is a dream. Smooth scrolling, selection, etc. Then it gets crazy again.

For me the worst offending culprit is Word by Word. If I turn that completely off things are usually much better. However, I don’t think that is the problem, just one of the symptoms. Another resource that gives me trouble is Edersheim’s OT history.

Logos is broken for some of us. In my case it’s not an inadequate computer or memory.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35461#Comment_35461

Is it possible that some of us are experiencing this and some are not.

Yes, this is the issue. Some have much better performance from L4 than L3, others have much worse. So far, I've not been able to see anything in hardware that is an identifiable issue, except that those with the biggest problems seem to be using a system with integrated (vs. dedicated) video. But not all with integrated video are seeing the problem, so it could be a particular chipset issue, or the amount of CPU and RAM reserved for integrated video, or something altogether different.

I don't have the issues you mention, and others don't seem to have them either. So this is an interesting mystery. I'm becoming very curious as to what the answer might be.

Mike W

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35470#Comment_35470

Is it possible that some of us are experiencing this and some are not.

Yes, this is the issue. Some have much better performance from L4 than L3, others have much worse. So far, I've not been able to see anything in hardware that is an identifiable issue, except that those with the biggest problems seem to be using a system with integrated (vs. dedicated) video. But not all with integrated video are seeing the problem, so it could be a particular chipset issue, or the amount of CPU and RAM reserved for integrated video, or something altogether different.

I don't have the issues you mention, and others don't seem to have them either. So this is an interesting mystery. I'm becoming very curious as to what the answer might be.

Do you know which integrated graphic sets are having problems? The reason I ask is that I currently use a g35 intel chipset on a desktop and my laptop (Thinkpad T60P) has an ati firegl graphic card. Both systems work well and the desktop is about 1 second faster in loading or the initial creation of the daily home page. Initial load is 10 to 15 seconds, search is about 1 to 2 seconds, and the passage guide takes about 5 seconds (I'm very happy with L4). I'm thinking that my next laptop will have an intel graphic chip (hopefully integrated in the cpu by that time) for heat and noise purposes.

PS: I really appreciate all the help the beta testers have provided on these forums but I have to ask; do y'all ever sleep? Seems like you're always here[C].

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35474#Comment_35474

PS: I really appreciate all the help the beta testers have provided on these forums but I have to ask; do y'all ever sleep? Seems like you're always here.

Mike,

This is called pay back. During the beta testing, I don't think Bradley ever slept or Bob or Melissa or . . . (Well you get the picture.) It's our way of saying thanks for all the help they gave when we were confused and experiencing crashes and bugs.

Chris

Bruce Reisdorph

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35470#Comment_35470

Richard.

Thanks for the response. I am on a desktop with vista home premium. Intel dual core 6400 @ 2.13 Ghz. 4 GB of ram (about 3.2 usable on a 32 bit sys)

I have an NVidia GeForce 9800 GT graphics card. It has 512 mb on board. I'm running two monitors at 1920 x 1200.

I don't think that hardware is the problem in my case. Could be though.

Logos is not only using high cpu cycles but when it does it freezes up the program. Lots of programs have heavy cpu usage but the interface doesn't lock up like this. Broken.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35499#Comment_35499

PS: I really appreciate all the help the beta testers have provided on these forums but I have to ask; do y'all ever sleep? Seems like you're always here.

Mike,

This is called pay back. During the beta testing, I don't think Bradley ever slept or Bob or Melissa or . . . (Well you get the picture.) It's our way of saying thanks for all the help they gave when we were confused and experiencing crashes and bugs.

Chris

Well said Chris. And Dead on. Well, except for Philip - he's just addicted to forums.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35505#Comment_35505

Well, except for Philip - he's just addicted to forums.

and pot apparently... or did I misread that thread

Greg Gray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35499#Comment_35499

and the passage guide takes about 5 seconds (I'm very happy with L4)

Is that with the default passage guide with all the headings expanded? For me it is 1 minute and 20 seconds. If I do the same search in Logos3 It is 6 seconds - going from six seconds to 80 seconds is a little extreme!!

I know I have more resources in Version 4 than V3, but this still is a little dramatic. If I have only the exact same headings expanded in passage guides in both versions it is a little better (but not great) - 6 seconds for Version 3 and 35 seconds for Version 4. That makes Version 3 almost six times faster!

(My testing was done using the default passage guide on Romans 8:1 on three different systems with all the same scale of differences (5-6 times faster in V3 than V4))

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35522#Comment_35522

Greg some of that may be due to the WPF rendering - I believe they've said that more optimizations are coming. That said: those are some serious observations. [:|]

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35521#Comment_35521

and pot apparently... or did I misread that thread

Did someone say pot??????

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35532#Comment_35532

Philip,

I can't imagine what people think when they read our threads.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35555#Comment_35555

Philip,

I can't imagine what people think when they read our threads.

I just hope none are part of my congregation in disguise.

Greg Gray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35557#Comment_35557

Another speed comparison:

I did a library search for "God" in both versions 3 and 4.

V3 took 115 seconds to search and display all hits.

V4 cheats big time it says that it does the search in 8 seconds which seems a lot faster than the 115 seconds in V3. - But, it takes another 17 seconds to display the first page of 20. It takes apr 25 seconds to display each of the 20 pages.

So in reality it takes 500 seconds for V4 to do the same search that V3 did in 115 seconds. Plus you have to add in the time taken to navigate through the pages.

For me work flow is great in V4, but speedy it definitely is not - you add to this the sluggish GUI and random 10 - 15 second time outs (where the program goes unresponsive) and I would say there is a pile of optimization to be done.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35557#Comment_35557

Philip,

I can't imagine what people think when they read our threads.

I just hope none are part of my congregation in disguise.

Sadly, my congregation would expect nothing less of me.

But, then again, I don't exhibit a pavlovian response to the mention of the word "pot"

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35650#Comment_35650

But, then again, I don't exhibit a pavlovian response to the mention of the word "pot"

What did you just say......!!!!!!!

Mike W

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35522#Comment_35522

and the passage guide takes about 5 seconds (I'm very happy with L4)

Is that with the default passage guide with all the headings expanded? For me it is 1 minute and 20 seconds. If I do the same search in Logos3 It is 6 seconds - going from six seconds to 80 seconds is a little extreme!!

I know I have more resources in Version 4 than V3, but this still is a little dramatic. If I have only the exact same headings expanded in passage guides in both versions it is a little better (but not great) - 6 seconds for Version 3 and 35 seconds for Version 4. That makes Version 3 almost six times faster!

(My testing was done using the default passage guide on Romans 8:1 on three different systems with all the same scale of differences (5-6 times faster in V3 than V4))

For me it was just the opposite, using Matt 24 as a test L3 takes about twice as long. I have 2239 resources listed in L4 and about 1800 showing in L3. I have a pretty generic homebuilt desktop running Windows 7 64bit with don't have any third party background tasks running and syncronization says everything is up to date. My thinkpad with Vista 32 is within a few seconds of these times as well. Bible word studies are incredibly fast (I just tried a Bible word study for heaven, over 3 minutes in L3 and just a few seconds in L4[:O]). It seems interesting that performance is so different for several people.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35474#Comment_35474

Do you know which integrated graphic sets are having problems?

No. I don't even know if it's graphics. Just following a hunch. Judging by another response below, the problem can't be restricted to integrated graphics alone.\

PS: I really appreciate all the help the beta testers have provided on these forums but I have to ask; do y'all ever sleep? Seems like you're always here

Thanks, actually I probably check in more than I should. But I'll admit enjoying helping people and trying to solve problems. Yes, I do sleep. I also had to be away from the keyboard for a better part of the day today. But so far, the posting maniac seems to be Phil Spitzer.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/35500#Comment_35500

Thanks for the response. I am on a desktop with vista home premium. Intel dual core 6400 @ 2.13 Ghz. 4 GB of ram (about 3.2 usable on a 32 bit sys)

I have an NVidia GeForce 9800 GT graphics card. It has 512 mb on board. I'm running two monitors at 1920 x 1200

That looks similar to mine, except I have N i7 processor, and my laptop isn't nearly up to that. Next time Logos freezes, give it a few minutes and see if it recovers. There were times in some of the early betas where it would freeze, and report not responding, but then it would after just a few seconds. I'm not saying it will recover, but it might. This would tell us that there's a process overwhelming your CPU. Recovering means the program is not breaking it (just overwhelming it). That could help the programmers narrow things down.

But I'm only guessing, since I'm only a computer aficionado, not an expert. I understand just enough to sound like I know what I'm talking about.

On the other hand, getting good data to the programmers about what specifically is causing problems will help solve the problem. I'm starting to think the issue has something to do with a portion of the program that is pushing massive amounts of data, or running massive data analysis algorithms through the CPU too fast for some (but not all) CPUs to handle, or else a part of the program may just be 'leaking' in such a way that some CPU's get temporarily overwhelmed and others don't.

Anyway, good information will help, so thanks for stating your system stats, that could help. BTW, the e6400 is a Core2 Duo, and thankfully not a Dual Core.

It looks like the programmers are reading these forums, and this thread, and it makes sense to me that they would want to get specific information from users experiencing slowdown problems, or lack of usability. Maybe they should start a thread and ask for the specific data that would point them in the right direction to understand and possibly solve this issue.

Dennis

Typing in the command window, or in "Notes" or even just renaming a layout, has a long feedback delay.

I have the same problem to the point of seriously slowing down my work and study time with logos 4(which I otherwise LOVE) I am running Logos 4 on two machines, without going into the details they both are very powerful machines with extreme amounts of memory, super video cards, very fast Intel dual core processors. I also run disk clean up and defrag regularly. Still the typing slows at times to a ridiculously slow response; sometimes two or three words behind my typing and I am just an average typist. This is quite annoying and costing me precious time.
I dont mean to sound angry. I am just giving the facts in hopes that a solution is found soon. This is the first time I have searched the forums for this topic and I noticed these post are quite old so hopefully a solution has already been found. If so, I would appreciate it if someone would let me know.

Dennis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220460#Comment_220460

'Slow typing response"

I should have added that I am not having the other problems that some of the others have mentioned. Logos 4 is very fast in all other processes. Just the typing issue.

Thanks,

Dennis

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220460#Comment_220460

sometimes two or three words behind my typing

It is not uncommon for me to write a complete sentence or two before I get to see anything on the screen.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220463#Comment_220463

'Slow typing response"

Ah yes, that is a common symptom of posting on threads that have been dormant for a year and 3 months. [:)]

But the slow typing is still there, more or less, in Logos, so I can see why you might have stumbled on this old thread.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/220460#Comment_220460

. . . Still the typing slows at times to a ridiculously slow response; sometimes two or three words behind my typing and I am just an average typist. This is quite annoying and costing me precious time. . .

Dennis,

It's quite odd that some have a great experience with Logos4, while others, with apparently identical hardware have very different experiences with it. So far we've not been able to figure out why, and some of the discussions have been long and complex.

There are some issues that may be related to how the WPF (the programming environment) works with .NET in displaying characters, but that doesn't explain why some have negligible problems with Logos4 in this area (like me), and others have horrible experiences with Logos4 in this area (like you and many others).

Some suggestions for speeding things up have emerged over time and can be found in the wiki here. (BTW, I personally don't recommend changing the Windows pagefile size unless you really know what you're doing. Setting it up incorrectly can significantly degrade Windows performance.)