kai touto

Hi. I was wondering if someone knows how to manipulate the syntax search to run a query on a prepositional phrase followed by kai touto. This is from Eph. 2:8 which says that we are saved by grace..."dia pistews (the prep. phrase), kai touto..." I want to find other passages that have a prep. phrase preceeding kai touto to see if what follows modifies the prep. phrase or the main clause "este seswsmenoi." I can't figure these syntax searches out and if you need a gap or not, or a head term or whatever. It is very confusing. Thanks!

In Christ,

Steve J.

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Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

I want to find other passages that have a prep. phrase preceeding kai touto to see if what follows modifies the prep. phrase or the main clause

Morph Search would be a bit quicker (albeit confined

@P BEFORE 1-4 WORDS lemma:καί BEFORE 1 WORD @RD

Option: click Bible Search to automatically convert Morph Search into a Bible Search, which can show grid results:

Personally learned a Syntax Search can find a clause with a prepositional phase followed by a copulative conjunction followed by a clause with a demonstrative pronoun:

For Syntax Search, personally have learned to start with a visual resource, then mimic structure.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Stephen Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/370979#Comment_370979

Thanks for the help. It narrowed ithe options down for me.

Rick Brannan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/371174#Comment_371174

So, if you were interested, here is one way to do it with a syntax search. I haven't dug too far, though, so may be missing something. This takes your request pretty strictly, and looks for a prepositional phrase directly followed by the words και τουτο. The dashed lines mean "Matching Skips Levels", so hierarchy of syntax isn't a problem. The "Wrap" is a "Group" element, it simply binds the specified objects together in their order.

With this search I returned 6 hits in the SBLGNT: Luke 2:11-12; 1Co 7:37; Eph 2:8; Php 1.8-9, 24-25; 3Jn 5.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/371256#Comment_371256

The "Wrap" is a "Group" element, it simply binds the specified objects together in their order.

With this search I returned 6 hits in the SBLGNT: Luke 2:11-12; 1Co 7:37; Eph 2:8; Php 1.8-9, 24-25; 3Jn 5.

Thanks: [8-|] personally living and learning that the structure of 1Co7:37 and 3Jn5 are a bit different since conjunction and subsequent demonstrative pronoun are within a sentence (plus 3Jn5 has adverbial concessive conjunction tagging):

Highlighted the six verses with literal approach.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Stephen Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/371286#Comment_371286

Thanks a lot guys! This is helping me understand a little better. I read the glossaries on both Cascadia and Lexham, but there are alot of terms to remember!

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/371853#Comment_371853

This is helping me understand a little better.

Likewise learning by doing some Syntax Searches in Logos 4, which includes a number of Syntax Search attempts that found nothing so kept trying.

Wiki Getting Started with Logos has => Search section, which includes link => A Strategy for Syntax Search that now has a reference to this thread.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Stephen Jones

Thanks for all of your input. I found the answer to my question "is salvation not of ourselves or is faith not of ourselves?" Namely, that salvation (este seswsmenoi) is not of ourselves. The comparison to 1 Cor. 6:6 offered the best proof that kai touto did not modify the prepositional phrase, but the preceeding verb. If it weren't for this ability to search using Logos, I may have never found an answer. Now the question can be asked, "is faith a gift or is it something we have in us from conception?" At least part of this question is dealt with because I know Eph. 2:8-9 speaks of salvation, not faith as the gift, and can back it up. Thanks again for all of your input. It is greatly appreciated!

In Christ,

Steve J.