Win 7 vs. Vista

Just curious folks. . . I am running Vista Home Premium 32-bit on an Intel Duo core 2.0 GHz with 2GB RAM and 126 GB HDD space free. I am planning to add another GB of memory (my 32-bit limit). I have considered upgrading to Win 7 64-bit for the extra memory recognition, but that would require a full version purchase not an upgrade. My question is, all things being equal (3GB memory and HD space), can anyone tell whether LOGOS 4 will run smoother on a Win7 machine (either 32-bit or 64-bit) versus a Vista machine. That would be my only reason for changing to Win 7 at this point.

In short, does the version of Windows (vista vs. 7) have any effect on the smooth operation of LOGOS4? If so, please elaborate.

I know that's asking for a lot of educated guessing, but I am trying to count the cost before hitting the purchase button.

Thanks,
Scott

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spitzerpl

All I know is that Logos 4 runs great on Win 7. My educated guess is that it runs better then on Vista.

Can you upgrade a computer to 64 Bit through software? I thought it was a hardware issue?

TCBlack

As Phil said, I think you'll get better performance in general from Win7 vs Vista.

Unfortunately I don't have a direct comparison as I went from XP pro to Win7 Premium. That WAS an improvement.

And remember a 64 Bit os requires a 64 bit capable chip, which I think the intel chip is, but you'd best confirm.

Bill Cook

Thomas is correct. Your processor has to be 64-bit capable to be able to run Win 7 64-bit. And, on a Vista machine, you can find this out easily. Go to Control Panel | System | Perfomance (bottom left in green pane) | View and Print Details... This will generate a report in which about the middle of the page will contain a line saying whether your machine is 64-bit capable or not.

Also, the Win 7 upgrade includes the 32-bit and 64-bit upgrade disks...

John Kaess

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37528#Comment_37528

and it is perfectly legal to upgrade vista 32 bit to win 7 64 bit with an upgrade version as long as your processor will run it. Microsoft has a Win 7 upgrade adviser you can also run that will fully check out your system.. The only down side is you will have to perform a full install, not an upgrade. in other words, you'll need a back up of all your data and then restore it after the install, as it will not do an in place upgrade, but it will do a legal full install

Scott H. Clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37528#Comment_37528

I should have been clear. My system has 64-bit capability but is running at 32-bits due to the vista version I got. It's a long story, but that's the short version. I can upgrade from 32-bit to 32-bit, or from 64-bit to 64-bit with Win 7. What they won't allow is an upgrade from 32-bit vista to 64-bit Win7. That requires purchasing the full version not the upgrade per their website. It's about $80 more to do that, which I will do, if it helps Logos 4 run better. I'd like to optimize my system for Logos.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37538#Comment_37538

I should have been clear. My system has 64-bit capability but is running at 32-bits due to the vista version I got. It's a long story, but that's the short version. I can upgrade from 32-bit to 32-bit, or from 64-bit to 64-bit with Win 7. What they won't allow is an upgrade from 32-bit vista to 64-bit Win7. That requires purchasing the full version not the upgrade per their website. It's about $80 more to do that, which I will do, if it helps Logos 4 run better. I'd like to optimize my system for Logos.

Thanks for the replies so far.

Hmm. I don't know of any tests showing that 32bit is slower/faster than 64bit. In fact user experience is all over the place here (and it seems a bit mystifying). Personally, I'm convinced that 64bit is the way to go, as any program that will run on Win7 32bit will run on Win7 64 bit, except for some sound applications.* If the money is not an issue, I'd recommend the 64bit jump now, rather than down the road when you'll have even more to reinstall.

NOTE: Unless I'm way off, if you upgrade from 32 to 64 bit, you will have to reformat your hard drive and install everything from scratch. Vista 32 to Win7 32 will not require a reformat (at least Vista 64 to Win7 64 did not).

*FYI: the sound architecture for the 64bit environment is different enough that most midi soft-synths (inlcuding SoundBlaster's midi synth and the Roland midi synth that ships with Band in a Box) won't work on Win7 (though the MS midi-synth does). If that isn't a problem for you, going for the 64bit version puts you in the best platform for the future. If you do any serious software midi-synth work, or need a software midi synth for anything, stay with 32bit for now. I'm hoping SoundBlaster and Roland will catch up and let me get full use of my X-Fi Xtreme Audio card some time soon.

Bobby Terhune

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37538#Comment_37538

Scott,

I just went ot Microsoft's webb site. I think you misunderstood the upgrade information. When they said you can't upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit, they were not saying you have to buy the full version, just that you had to do a custom install.

Quote from Microsoft;

If you are currently running a 32-bit version of Windows, you can only perform an upgrade to another 32-bit version of Windows. Similarly, if you are running a 64-bit version of Windows, you can only perform an upgrade to another 64-bit version of Windows.

If you want to move from a 32-bit version of Windows to a 64-bit version of Windows or vice versa, you'll need to back up your files and then perform a Custom installation of the version of Windows you want to install.

Scott H. Clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37546#Comment_37546

Richard,

You are right, as I understand it, regarding the need for a "clean" install for the 32 to 64-bit jump. Microsoft's website indicated that was the case. As for midi synth stuff. I don't do anything along those lines. As long as my MP3s still play, I'll be okay.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37548#Comment_37548

Quote from Microsof

I believe the issue is with the computer manufacturer that provides the free update option to their customers who bought a Vista system after the end of June (2009). Not with Microsoft. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Scott H. Clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37548#Comment_37548

Bobby,

I will go back and look. I would be thrilled if that is the case. Thanks.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37550#Comment_37550

As long as my MP3s still play, I'll be okay.

If that's all it takes for you to be okay, you're good to go. [;)]

MP3's play great. Midi plays too, but MS Midi synth still sounds pretty mechanical.

Bobby Terhune

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37552#Comment_37552

Richard,

I hadn't thought of that issue. But I thought he was paying for the upgrade and was concerned about the extra cost to pay for the full version.

William R. Muench

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37552#Comment_37552

Be careful, I purchased XP 64 bit, installed it, then tried to run my software. Most of my software did not run on a 64 proc. I had to wipe drive and go back to 32 bit XP. Make sure your sofeware you run CAN run on a 64 bit platform.

Bill

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37560#Comment_37560

Be careful, I purchased XP 64 bit, installed it, then tried to run my software. Most of my software did not run on a 64 proc. I had to wipe drive and go back to 32 bit XP. Make sure your sofeware you run CAN run on a 64 bit platform.

That's odd. I'm running a huge amount of 32 bit software without so much as a hiccup from Win 7 64bit. It handles 32 bit just fine in my experience.What have you had trouble with?

edit: never mind I see the problem. XP didn't handle the differences that well. Win7 Flies.

Scott H. Clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37560#Comment_37560

I just checked the website again. I believe I did misunderstand the statement I read concerning upgrading from 32-bit Vista to 64-bit Win7. Thanks Bobby, for pointing that out. Now cost is not an issue. Now to verify that my software will run on a 64 bit OS.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37553#Comment_37553

I will go back and look. I would be thrilled if that is the case. Thanks.

I can confirm that's the case. Basically what you'll need to do when you begin the install process is choose "custom install" rather than the default install.

Scott H. Clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37568#Comment_37568

Thanks everyone for the advice so far.

So, back to the original question. Anyone have experience running on both a Vista and a Win 7 machine? The only reason for me to upgrade right now is for the sake of Logos 4 performance. Otherwise, I will drag my feet on Win7. This laptop is used for Internet surfing and Logos 3 right now. Very little else outside of maybe MS office gets used here. Thanks again.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37574#Comment_37574

Thanks everyone for the advice so far.

So, back to the original question. Anyone have experience running on both a Vista and a Win 7 machine? The only reason for me to upgrade right now is for the sake of Logos 4 performance. Otherwise, I will drag my feet on Win7. This laptop is used for Internet surfing and Logos 3 right now. Very little else outside of maybe MS office gets used here. Thanks again.

I have a Win7 (64 bit) desktop and a cheap Vista (32bit) laptop. L4 runs fine on both. Vista is a bit more annoying than Win7, but I turned off UAC on both and that helps a lot. L4 runs great on Vista and it runs great on Win7. I would not guess that Win7 would give better performance than Vista, but it could. In my experience Win7 has a few more bells and whistles that may give poorer performance for some (unless you turn it off).

Apart from the mere matter of L4 performance today, I'd suggest upgrading to Win7 64 if you plan to keep your computer more than 2 more years. If you're planning to upgrade your hardware anyway, sometime soon, save your money for that.

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37579#Comment_37579

I turned off UAC

Richard,

what is UAC ?

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37599#Comment_37599

UAC = User Account Control.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_Account_Control

steve clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37604#Comment_37604

Thanks Thomas!

after reading about half of it, i realize i don't know enough about it to take the chance in altering my setup.

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37599#Comment_37599

To get a clean install, don't you have to remove all Microsoft products and never go back to them?

Okay, kidding aside, I am (was) a Vista user.

Vista was the illegitimate child, which everyone said it was. Windows 7 is in my opinion, far superior. So if you want the best environment for your Logos4, I suggest the Windows 7. There were always some odd memory issues on my Toshiba laptop, in that Vista always tried to supercede all Toshiba memory management stuff.

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37579#Comment_37579

Richard is right. From my experience there is not much difference in running L4 on vista 32 bit vs Win 7 64 bit. I was in the middle of upgrading my vista 32 bit to Win 7 64 bit when L4 came out. I laid off upgrading to see how L4 looked on vista. The download went smoothly and my library indexed overnight. I was pleased with the performance on vista. But decided to upgrade to a 64 bit system partly to take advantage of my 4 gigs of ram.

Things did not go as well when I upgraded to Win 7 64 bit. Admittedly, I am not a computer person, but I can usually follow directions pretty well. I had some problems downloading L4 the second time. The program kept quitting and restarting. It took all of two days for my 11.6 gig download to complete and I have a 6mgb line at the house. It took another 2 days for the library to index--stopping and starting.

That said L4 is running well but there is one problem I have not been able to correct. Under Vista I had 2848 resources but under Win 7 I have 2828 resources in L4. I upgraded from L3 gold to L4 Platinum and thought I would have more resources. In L3 I had a little over 3000 resources--however, many of them are PBB.

I appreciate all the expertise here. You may never know how much help many of you are. I almost never post but do enjoy gleaning from many of the comments and suggestions here.

Dan Bender

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37599#Comment_37599

what is UAC ?

User Account Control. It's a safety thing MS introduced in Vista that nags you every time you change a program. It's supposed to be a safety issue. Most people find it an annoying interruption. At least most people I've talked to. Thankfully it can be turned off.

EDIT: MS does not recommend turning it off. Do so at your own risk.

Michael Scoggins

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37548#Comment_37548

Scott,

I just went ot Microsoft's webb site. I think you misunderstood the
upgrade information. When they said you can't upgrade from 32 bit to 64
bit, they were not saying you have to buy the full version, just that
you had to do a custom install.

Quote from Microsoft;

Just to let everybody know LapLink makes a product called PCMover for Windows 7 with this software it will let you upgrade fro Vista 32 to Windows 7 64 WITHOUT re-installing all of your software. It will even let you upgrade from Win XP to Win 7 without reinstalling your software. I see it online from laplink for $19.95

Michael Scoggins

Daniel Bender

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/37633#Comment_37633

Michael, the LapLink solution did not work for me. When attempting the install my system kept shutting down. I ended up having to re-format my HD and doing a clean install before the 64 bit addition would install correctly. I would certainly back up everything you needed before attempting it.

Stephen Matthew Friend

Hi Scott:

You stated that you wanted to try Win 7 64 bit for the extra memory recognition.. FIrst, if your upgrading to only 3 GB, I would stick with with 32 bit (32 bit will be able to address/use 3 GB). If you were going to upgrade to 4 GB then it might be worth it (because the 4 GB limit of 32 Vista also includes the video card, bus, etc so if you install 4 GB, your OS might only be able to use 3.2 GB or so).

I work in IT.... here is my suggestion:

1. Upgrade to 4 GB of Ram.

2. Upgrade (for free) from 32 bit to 64 bit Vista. My understanding (and what Microsoft has done for me on 3 occasions) is that license for Vista Home (or other version of Vista) covers both 32 or 64 bit (within the save version of Vista: home, business, basic, etc). I have upgraded Vista Home and Vista Business from 32 bit to 64 bit and Microsoft does not charge you.

How? First you need to find a 64 bit Home premium Vista disk (since yours is the home edition). (From a friend, etc.). You can not upgrade from 32 bit to 64 bit so you will need to do a fresh install of Vista 64 bit. After you install Vista 64 bit try to activate it. (Check under: control panel > System to see if it activated) It may not activate because the 32 bit version is already activated according to Microsoft's activation server/computer. If so, there will be a phone number for you to call. If it will not activate automatically on the phone when you punch in the numbers, a Microsoft employee will come on the line and ask for the first and last 4 digits. They will give you an activation code that you put in and your computer is then activated for the 64 bit version of whatever your OS is.

Remember, you already legally have the license, the activation just needs to be changed from the 32 bit to the 64 bit version on Microsoft's activation computer

Matt.

EDIT:

Part of your original question was regarding the speed of running Logos4 in either 32 bit Win 7 or 64 bit Win 7. I have tried it on both (on the same computer) and did not see any significant difference. If Logos4 were a 64 bit program it MIGHT make a difference. The only time I think you might see a difference is if you have a lot of other programs open and using Ram at the same time. I would guess that the limiting factor on most newer computers is likely the speed of the hard drive (I.e. how quickly it can read the Logos data on the drive).