Retina Macbook Pro and Logos - I have one

I have one of the new Macbook pros. My initial observations with Logos are as follows:

* The home screen is beautiful. Everything renders at high(er) resolution and looks great. Not just the ribbon but all of the content.

* However, once you open a book the resolution falls apart for the content. The Logos windows, titles, etc, all look great. The books are the problem almost to the point that you don't want to use it.

* It is scary fast.

Let me know if anyone has a specific question and I'll try to answer.

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Comments

JT (alabama24)

Are you using the release build of L4, or the beta?

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376367#Comment_376367

Release build.

Do you think there would be a difference with the Beta?

Greg

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376375#Comment_376375

Adam,

Are you able to post screen shots?

tom

The books are the problem almost to the point that you don't want to use it.

WOW, this is why I use L4 - to read books.

Thinking

I am being tempted on both coveting and jealousy. Is that a Christian thing for you to do? .

Kevin A. Purcell

The books are the problem almost to the point that you don't want to use it.

Can you be more specific? What's the problem? Does text look fuzzy, blurry, too small?

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376506#Comment_376506

Yes, they are fuzzy and pixelated. It may not be so bad if you weren't going from stunning display to it. . .

Some apps are clearly better than others (I am speaking of apps that haven't been updated). Logos itself (menus, windows, etc.) all look great. It is the books that look bad.

In the attached screen shot notice that the NASB and DBL greek look bad. . but the Info and Text Comparison on the look very good.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376521#Comment_376521

Some apps are clearly better than others (I am speaking of apps that haven't been updated). Logos itself (menus, windows, etc.) all look great. It is the books that look bad.

Thanks for the screen shot.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376536#Comment_376536

I can just imagine the fighting going on in the Logos Mac dev department to work on the problem....[8-|]

Thomas Ball

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376521#Comment_376521

Yes, they are fuzzy and pixelated. It may not be so bad if you weren't going from stunning display to it. . .

Some apps are clearly better than others (I am speaking of apps that haven't been updated). Logos itself (menus, windows, etc.) all look great. It is the books that look bad.

In the attached screen shot notice that the NASB and DBL greek look bad. . but the Info and Text Comparison on the look very good.

Your results look fairly similar to the screenshot comparison on the Verge's article about how to change screen settings: http://www.theverge.com/2012/6/12/3079887/retina-display-new-macbook-pro-apps. Annoying, but not earth shatteringly bad.

I'll send a note over to Development, and include this thread.

Adam, have you played around with your screen settings, and if not can you see they change your results at all?

I'm not sure if Development has one of the RD MBPs on order or not. This issue might give them an excuse to, but I have no idea where this issue would be on the hierarchy of issues to deal with. It could be that any potential 10.8 issues that may exist will trump this for a while yet.

Ben

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376539#Comment_376539

What's the barefoot icon in the Dock? I'm a barefoot/Five Fingers runner, and curious. Thanks

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376719#Comment_376719

http://www.rubitrack.com/

QWL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376725#Comment_376725

Hi, Adam

Can you kindly comment on the gloss of the Retina screen compared to the glossy screens of existing MBPs?

Thanks.

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376747#Comment_376747

Much less than my old 11 inch MBP. A nice middle ground between glossy (which I didn't like) and full dull which I wasn't happy about. . .

I like it.

Daniel Bergquist

As I have noted elsewhere, Logos uses a third-party version of WebKit, an HTML rendering engine. They use it so they don't risk having rendering clobbered by an update to Mac OS X's built-in WebKit version.

Judging from the tremendous portion of the .app bundle size that this third-party library (in computers, a library is a collection of related and reusable code) makes up (approximately 1/5), I would wager that Logos is concerned about breaking something pretty major in the application. Now, this is just conjecture, but I would wager they are concerned about breaking the rendering of the books.

If this is the case, then updating the books to render at full resolution may not be fully in Logo's hands. This is one of the trade-offs of using a third-party version of a OS library, you get stability (that is, it doesn't change much or often so things are less likely to break) at the expense of not being in sync with the OS version.

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377102#Comment_377102

I loaded Logos up on a Win 7 bootcamp partition on the new machine to see what it looked like and while it is still not as good as it could/should be it is much better looking than on the Mac side.

Again, it isn't bad on the Mac side unless you are using it and comparing it to retina ready apps, etc.

Ross Durham

I trust that the resolution issue on books (obviously the most important part of the program) will get resolved. What caught my eye is that Logos is "scary fast"! I've never experienced that--even when I purchased the latest Mac hardware in 2010. Almost every day I wonder, "why was the 'performance ticket' closed out because it was now good enough?" Shows up most in Menu performance and scrolling.

Ross

Donovan R. Palmer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377201#Comment_377201

I looked at one in the store the other day. The salesperson did a 'select all' and opened all the applications at once. Just like a machine gun, they fired up. It was impressive.

The difficulty I see is that at least for early adopters the price point of 250GB is steep and can potentially be a decrease in hard drive space for some users. I have a 320GB drive that 190 GB is used. While what I currently have would fit onto one of these new machines, the general rule of thumb is that our requirements for space and speed are increasing, not decreasing. So I would be nervous that in a couple of years I would be regretting having only a 250GB flash drive. Yet the 500 GB drive is even at a higher price point which can make your eyes water.

So my view is that this is definitely the future and I won't be an early adopter as I need to wait until the 500 GB unit comes down. My fear is that with this extra horsepower and speed is that Logos will decide to decide to design an app that is even more demanding and we'll be waiting for the next revolution in computer hardware to run it. Until then, these units will be wonderful.

I might say that the Retina screen is awesome. I already have this on my iPhone and iPad. The difference is wonderful and it will be nice when the text in Logos can take advantage of it.

Jerry M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377221#Comment_377221

your eyes water.

Off topic but about three or four comments up, Daniel has a 12 core Mac Pro. I guess my wallet would weep also.

Tonya J Ross

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/376539#Comment_376539

The resource text display should be improved for retina displays in 4.5c. Sadly, I don't have one sitting here on my desk to confirm the improvement. [;)]

Adam (or anyone else who has a retina display Macbook) if you get a minute once 4.5c has shipped to the stable channel, if you compare the resource text display and let us know how it looks for you that would be greatly appreciated.

Ron

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377244#Comment_377244

The resource text display should be improved for retina displays in 4.5c.

Yay! Hopefully 4.5c will ship before I get my Retina MacBook in 4 weeks or so [:)]

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377244#Comment_377244

I just got Logos loaded on my new retina and the text of the books is terrible. Any idea how long the wait might be? This rMBP might have to go back if it's going to be a while before I can use my Logos software.

Everything but the books looks great. I've tried different resolutions for the screen as well as different fonts and font sizes.

Daniel Bergquist

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377226#Comment_377226

your eyes water.

Off topic but about three or four comments up, Daniel has a 12 core Mac Pro. I guess my wallet would weep also.

I'm also a bachelor, Mac/iOS software engineer with access to discounts and living in a small flyover country city. ;-)

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377322#Comment_377322

For those thinking about getting the retina display I'd wait. Although Logos might adjust their software in a timely manner (How long did their Mac version take?) I seriously doubt Microsoft will. Office looks terrible.

I'm selling my retina MBP. For me the fuzzy text in most programs makes it unusable. Compared to my MBA the color blows away the Air but the Air blows away the rMBP in clarity in almost all programs.

Even if my programs came out with updates within a couple of months it still wouldn't work for me. I'm not about to replace perfectly functioning programs (I don't have the latest versions) so that they'll work on the retina screen.

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377379#Comment_377379

Personally I could not disagree more.

As I have said, Logos is fuzzy as are the many apps but many are not (some seem to have used a technology that requires no modification) and browsing is an absolute pleasure. It is the fastest laptop I have ever used and is gorgeous.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377379#Comment_377379

Dear Greg: If my memory serves me well, iOS apps for the retina display iPhone/ipad came pretty quickly.

Since just about all computer makers are working towards retina type displays, everything is going this direction.

I also believe your word processor issues can be resolved with Pages ( but not positive ) unless you are completely dependent on Microsoft for that function. Microsoft will shift soon though as their new platforms are also touted as HD or retina quality.

As fas as Logos is concerned, well, that's probably a whole different scenario.

Recently they stated to me that they adopt very quickly and it always works properly.

Unfortunately I do not think they use the same program we do or, they have a different definition of " works properly".

I have read that one can set the display to render in the same mode as a regular macbook pro, It seems from your posts that this is not the case? Was wondering if a call to Apple concerning a work around might be helpful?

Logos has stated on here somewhere that a release is pending that may help with the issue.

Hope this helps a little, it must be very, very frustrating to have such a incredible machine and not be able to function well in getting things done.

Blessings.

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377384#Comment_377384

HUGE difference between updating an iOS app and a full program. Also the iPad sold in the millions very quickly.

iWork (pages) hasn't been updated for the Retina display. If Apple couldn't get their own program ready for the release of this MBP then how long do you think that other companies will take?

How small is the percentage of retina displays out there compared to all displays being used in the world? Most software companies will eventually come out with compatible versions but it will most likely be with a paid upgrade to their software. Why would they rush a fix out when the percentage of users are less than 1% ???

Running at 1440x900 doesn't help at all.

It'll be a while until the retina display is more widespread and supported. It'll be cheaper by then. Why should I pay over $2k for a laptop that looks terrible with the 3 programs I use the most after internet and mail? It's not like the screen on my MBA or an antiglare MBP all of a sudden isn't excellent.

QWL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377384#Comment_377384

Adam and Greg,

1) How does Mellel and Scrivener look on your Retina MBP?

2) Was your previous MBP a matte screen and if so, is the fuzzy text of Logos books on the Retina MBP better or worse than the matte screen of the old MBP?

Thanks.

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377387#Comment_377387

Adam and Greg,

1) How does Mellel and Scrivener look on your Retina MBP?

2) Was your previous MBP a matte screen and if so, is the fuzzy text of Logos books on the Retina MBP better or worse than the matte screen of the old MBP?

Thanks.

As for the second question I have a macbook Air and the text looks sharp on it.

I was thinking about getting a hi res antiglare MBP. Your question makes me thing that Logos doesn't look sharp on that screen? I've not heard about this "fuzzy" problem until the retina. You've got me curious now. Anyone have a hi res MBP? Any problems with the text of the books on it?

Adam Crafton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377387#Comment_377387

1. Scrivener looks pretty good. The text, etc are good (not retina but much better than logos). Binder items look good. Ribbon icons are less clear but the things that matter (text, org tools, etc) all look very good. Fine to use as is. . .I presume they will update but if they don't you could use the way it is.

2. Glossy.

QWL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377389#Comment_377389

Greg: I have a matte MBP and was trying to ascertain if the fuzziness which Adam talked about on the Retina MBP might be worse or at least the same as a matte MBP. If yes, then I might be able to live with it since I have a mid 2009 MBP.

Adam: Is the fuzziness on the Retina MBP at least the same clarity as your old glossy MBP or is it worse?

Thanks.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377389#Comment_377389

I see that some people are using "switchresx" to set particular screen setups for particular programs while they await updates.

Do not know if it will help or not.

Not sure I completely agree on the IOS comment. I have literally hundreds and hundreds of books "on" my iPhone running in retina, the text is great. I understand we are talking about a much smaller screen area, yet the principle is the same, the scale of change is different.

Agree there are not millions of these machines out there yet, but it's not going to take long and apparently there will be a 13' MBPr by fall.

I think Accordance plans on Retina compatibility in the next couple months, se do believe these things will move fairly quickly.

Like you, getting the work done is of greatest importance , thus am so sorry you have this difficulty. Often early adopters pay a price that help everyone , but most don't realize has been paid for them.

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377393#Comment_377393

THANK YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Swictchresx has it's own problems with many things now being WAY too small but it appears that it might just work. I just tried it and by increasing the size of the text in Logos and Word to a readable size they now look perfect. Of coarse the menus and other things are too small. Safari is small and when resized now doesn't look as good at 2880x1800.

However, being able to adjust my workspace according to what I'm doing just might work out fine while I wait. I'm busy trying to work on tonight's lecture so I have to try and put this out of my mind so that I can finish preparing, using my MBA.

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377402#Comment_377402

4.5c looks great with no need to bring the res up to 2880x1800.

Wonderful, thank you Logos!

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377482#Comment_377482

Wonderful and- Way to go Logos!

Greg M

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/377504#Comment_377504

Another update:

Office on the Retina also has the fuzzes. Not as bad as Logos did but it still looks bad. I downloaded LibreOffice and the text looks great.