Hesitant to Use Academic Discount Due to Lack of Transferability

I believe that academic purchases can be transferred. To prevent it from being abused, Logos has policies for purchasing. If I recall correctly, multiple copies of base packages cannot be purchased using the academic discount. It is one per person. I don't know if it is the same with individual titles.

But, feel free to wait for official verification. I don't think there is anything to be worried about. A polite and appreciative call to customer service might also get you a non-academic discount.

Sogol said:

"Academic product purchases are not-transferable and non-giftable."

Another concern I have is this: Will Logos blacklist all resources I purchase during my term of "Academic Discount" eligibility, even if they are purchased without the discount? I have been buying many resources I locked in from Community Pricing that are cheaper than subsequent Academic pricing. I would hate for those to be non-transferable just because I qualified for the more expensive Academic pricing.

[:S]

Sogol said:

I am starting to wonder if anyone at Logos really knows the answer.

[:#]  Given the silence, I think you may be correct. 

Into Grace said:

Will Logos allow a transfer of the sofware (license) to a family member after I die?

Yes.

You can put the provision in your will. I believe the current license transfer fee is $25. (for office work overhead stuff)

Sogol ... you're threatening one of the Logos records on being uncommunicative.

The question on academic pricing transferability has been going on every since I joined the forum (maybe 3 years or so?).

I'm sure it probably goes back even decades. There's only 2 other uncommunicative records still in the running. It's just too risky to ask Logos for an answer.

Dan's answer has GOT to be the nuttiest marketing promotion rationale I have ever read.

Let me understand.

Logos has a significant motivation to 'hook' students for life. What's a lifetime payback? Priceless. It's a luxury that most companies dream of.

But, as Dan notes, the proposed lifetime customers might become 1-year customers (for specific book/s by the way). Just can NOT risk that!

Now, I'm no dummy. Close to it, granted. But 'maybe' a 5-year hiatus on re-sells? But instead Logos goes for a lifetime? For up and coming leaders of believers.

I'm sorry. Dan's scored another win for the nuttiness award.

EDIT: I'm sorry; the more I think about this, the stranger the explanation gets. I'm a lot like Matthew; as soon as I'm 'finished' with my books, I'd happily pass them on gratis. I already do that for my hardcopies. I don't have any 'academic' discount resources. But I did calculate my AVERAGE price-off Logos.com for my library. It's neck and neck with the academic discount. And I can happily give to someone. The seminary guys/gals can't. Wow.

There definitely should be some exceptions to the rule.  It's absurd to simply say they can't be transferred period.  Some of what you, Dan, said was legitimate.  Some could be argued, I'm sure.  But the bare bones of it, is that there should be exceptions.  If a person dies, they should be able to will their entire library to another person.  Or if a pastor retires from the pulpit for whatever reason, they should be able to pass down their library to their disciple.  Even if you were to make some strict rules about it, that would be countless times better than giving your customers (who are mostly children of God, your brothers and sisters mind you) the shaft.

Come up with something like if a person wants to transfer Academic Discount items then they have to transfer their entire library.  That would make people question transferring class textbooks to a degree.  There might be some who only have a few books in their library, all of which are textbooks.  What about them?  Well, like suggested, require a person to hold onto the resources for 5-10 years before they can transfer them.  At that point, it would not be likely that textbooks would be transferred in this fashion between students to any degree worth mentioning.

If nothing else, what Logos has done is falsely advertise.  I was NOT told that we were not allowed to transfer Academic Discount items when I began my library.  Granted, I don't want to.  I want to keep my resources.  And I'm young and don't plan on dying anytime soon, Lord willing.  However, you have falsely advertised because it obviously isn't well known that we can't transfer our items.  And I know personally, that if I were to die or have something happen to me, I would like to be able to give my library to another, at the very least.  So that may have given me pause when initially purchasing resources from Logos.

Now that sounds reasonable.

Since my current library was purchased as a student, it cannot be willed out to someone else? Can someone please clarify this? Thanks

This policy is unacceptable. I would not have purchased. They are not selling these books at a loss.

Dan Pritchett said:

In the same way, we have found that many students would like to purchase books for Logos and then return them or resell them when the class is over. This is a drain on our resources and a distraction from the design of our discount program. We created the program to help people save money and enjoy a self-service option that reduced our operating and handling costs. We could create a very comprehensive and complicated system and set of policies to handle all situations that may arise, or we could just simplify things and explain that was not the design of the program.

At this time, we have chosen to go with the simple approach and explain to everyone that Academic Discount Program purchases were not designed to be transferrable.

Folks, I think we're over-reacting here. Dan has been very careful in what he has said, and what he has not said. Just because something wasn't designed for a particular purpose doesn't mean it can never be used for that person. Remember:

Dan Pritchett said:

We don't like rules. We like relationships… believe it or not, we still try our best to keep things feeling small and personal, and treat each user as a unique and special human being, that we want as personal a relationship as possible, with.

I take this to mean that if you're a student who has just finished your degree and want to transfer your purchases to another student, then that won't be allowed. On the other hand, if you're a pastor who got several items with an academic discount when you were in college several years ago, and have added to that library since, and have now retired from the ministry and want to transfer your purchases to your son who is going to seminary, then even though the academic program isn't designed to allow transfers, it's worth giving Logos a call and making use of that personal relationship Dan speaks of. No guarantees, of course, but definitely worth a call in the sort of circumstances I've outlined.

Mark Barnes said:

... even though the academic program isn't designed to allow transfers, it's worth giving Logos a call and making use of that personal relationship Dan speaks of. No guarantees, of course, but definitely worth a call in the sort of circumstances I've outlined.

I get what you're saying.  However, it's the bold that's the problem.  With an issue like this, people need a guarantee.  Logos cannot expect a customer to pay thousands of dollars on a library, and then say, "Well, maybe we'll allow a transfer in your case, but then again, maybe not.  Depends on how we feel at the moment.  You may or may not be able to further God's Kingdom by passing on your resources.  You may or may not see your property disappear into a void upon your death... even though you've paid for these resources just as you would pay for a print book."

I say that facetiously of course.  But I'm sure you understand my point, that this policy goes against Christian principles and the very business model they use in saying our libraries are just like print libraries but electronic.  What's the point of owning a license to a book if I am the only one ever allowed to use that particular book attached to that particular license?  Might as well just loan me the electronic resource.  Part of the right in owning a license to use anything (be it books or music or whatever) is being able to pass on the ownership of that license to another.  Because of Logos policy, some of us have paid thousands of dollars for essentially lifetime loan books that we were initially told we own.  And again, as I mentioned earlier, Logos policy concerning this is not presented upfront and made clear to customers who might make use of the Academic Discount.

What's saddest is that Dan basically said, "Too bad, we like publishers more than you." to Logos customers by what he said, regardless of how nice he said it.  All that which he spouted about the publishers being put out of the loop and unable to make money anymore is sad and all... but we as customers have to pay for it (excuse the pun)?  We get duped by being told we own something, when the reality is that the policy plays out in our "owned" electronic libraries being figuratively burned upon our death so no one else can use them?  This is done with spreading the gospel being important to Logos?  So they'd prevent us from being able to transfer our libraries when possible to help spread the gospel?  And the reasoning we're given is because some students cause a loss to publishers?  What a load.

Aside from argumentation like above, I would suggest that if spreading the gospel really is important to Logos, those going into professional or full-time ministry should have a discount without strings attached, period.  I recognize that Logos is a business.  But at some point, Logos has to ask themselves some questions and make some decisions.  Is God, Christ, and the gospel number one to us, so that we'll take every hit when necessarily to further the Kingdom?  Do we trust God to ensure that we, Logos, stay afloat if we do choose this attitude?  Or are we first a business that cannot place total trust in God to ensure our stability, growth, and long life?

Super Tramp said:

Sogol said:

"Academic product purchases are not-transferable and non-giftable."

I have purchased many resources through Community Pricing, Pre-Pub and super sales that rival the Academic Discount. I, too, am reluctant to mix in a lot of Academic Discount resources with my regular (huge) library that was purchased without restrictions on transferability. My hope is to someday bless a preacher, student or missionary with a great library and no worries of having to sort what is transferable and what is not.

Hopefully we will get clarification directly from Logos soon.

I can understand why Logos would make resources purchased with an academic discount non-transferable world without end (if they do) since it would prevent someone from purchasing at an academic discount then reselling it—a nice little scam.  I think, however, that it would be just as effective if the resources were non-transferable for a set period (say, five years).

Well, Robert ... I crossed the bridge you discuss when Logos4 was introduced. I'm not sure most people realize it but the Logos4 concept shifted the center of gravity 180 degrees from the user (Libronix licenses on the PC, etc) to the publisher (licenses maintained by a reseller, etc).

I became considerably more convinced earlier this year about Logos (which Bob did respond to, and he is a good-guy). But to give them credit where credit is due, they're consistent. I don't expect their behavior to change (or as the OT expresses it 'to turn').

After thinking about this a bit more, I'm bummed out by this ruling/policy as well... The product is great but this policy needs to be clear before any package or book rental for students. The differences in academic v. non-discounts should be clear for all to see. If students are happy after having been given the relevant information, then we can happily click buy. I've been with Logos since Feb. and I enjoy the forums, its members, and the product, but this is a bummer.

Robert Wazlavek said:

The owning of the license is what grants the rights and privileges, and one of those privileges by necessity must be the right to give the product and license to another.  Otherwise, some of us were scammed into thinking we were buying something when really we are being loaned something.  We effectively have no rights concerning the product we bought at all, besides the right to use it... which, again, makes the product nothing more than a longterm loan.

Welcome to the digital world. You own none of the software on your computer, and none of the electronic books in Logos, Kindle, or anywhere else. You never have. I don't like it, but at the moment we have no choice without primary legislation from government.

http://gizmodo.com/369235/amazon-kindle-and-sony-reader-locked-up-why-your-books-are-no-longer-yours

Mark Barnes said:

Welcome to the digital world. You own none of the software on your computer, and none of the electronic books in Logos, Kindle, or anywhere else. You never have. I don't like it, but at the moment we have no choice without primary legislation from government.

http://gizmodo.com/369235/amazon-kindle-and-sony-reader-locked-up-why-your-books-are-no-longer-yours

At this point, it's yet to be brought to trial, correct?  The article seemed to present the idea that Amazon, etc, have tried to say what you said is true, but there has been no court decisions.  If that's the case, I imagine this will happen at some point.  We just have to wait.

Again, regardless of what Amazon and whatever other bigs names are doing, the principle stands that Logos is not like other companies.  Logos's sole purpose is rooted in spreading God's Word.  For this reason, Logos must choose between God pursuit or following the world on this one.  If Logos were to openly come on here and say that they are first a business and that God and His glory come second to them, then I personally will drop this whole issue, consider them a secular company, and move on.  Seems like a simple enough solution (for me anyway).  The question is, is Logos prepared to take this route, given it will NOT please the Lord?

George Somsel said:

Are you pretending to know what would or would not please God?  I think we are admonished to obey the law.

Given that the Word makes it clear that God demands to be first among His people 100% of the time, I'm far from pretending.  Aside from that, I know my Father.  His Spirit in me cries out as to what is pleasing to Him and what is not.  Nice try though. You can believe that it's not possible to know what pleases God if you want.  But that's pure foolishness, and it is obviously so to those who truly know the Word.  And I'm not going to argue with you about it.  (Nor will I argue any semantics if they are brought up.)

What do you mean the law?  God's law?  Man's law?  We're no longer under the Old Covenant.  So you can't mean that.  And we don't have to obey man's law as far as it contradicts God's will, desire, pleasure.  Peter and John made that perfectly clear in Acts, unless they were simply being foolish and not pleasing God in their refusal to conform to the Sanhedrin.  Anyway, quite frankly, I don't care to argue with you about this either.  Simply given you seem to think a person has to pretend to know what pleases God proves that arguing with you is not worth it.