Dream On

I plan on getting Original Languages Library and Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software at the end of the year. (I have no knowledge of the original languages)With my budget being approx. $2000, what additional texts would you recommend?

My interests only in adding more bibles, interlinear bibles, ancient texts and morphologies, ancient texts in translation, original language grammers and tools, and original language lexicons and dictionaries (dictionaries are my preference)

I fully realize that what I am trying to accomplish is very difficult at best, but the Bible and it's author is my only interest in life. (drawing closer is the only thing worth striving for)

I am sure the opinions I recieve will all over the board, but it will be a starting point.

Thank you in advance

Bill

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Jack Caviness

I have no knowledge of the original languages)

In addition to the OL Package, you might want to take a look at Learn to Use Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software. No matter what the advertisement says, it it designed to teach you how to use the language tools in Logos 4. It will not take the place of a formal seminary education.

UPDATE: Had not read the advertisement in a couple of years. Happy to see that it no longer promises more than it delivers.

Mark O'Hearn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381232#Comment_381232

Here is one of those "all over the board" responses you alluded to earlier.

My initial read of your post was that you wanted to read Hebrew and Greek. Perhaps this is indeed what you wish to pursue. If so, I believe a substantial investment of $2,000 would be better invested in a classroom setting then through books when endeavouring to learn a second language. I do not personally know Hebrew and Greek, so I base this belief on learning Canadian French as an English person.

On my second read of your post I think what you are saying is that you want to study God's Word with the help of the original languages. Of course, one does not require this to "draw closer" to God, as certainly there were and are many outstanding believers in the past and present without the ability to read Hebrew and Greek. Time in the Word, prayer, and in the will of God brings one closer to Him. Our generation is full of knowledgeable people, religious and otherwise, but it has always been a matter of faith and faithfulness that is pleasing to Him.

I personally believe that including original languages into your Biblical studies will enhance your understanding of the Word. Just keep in mind that whether you decide to learn the languages for yourself, or decide to rely on assistance from the language helps provided in Logos, the reality is that you will be depending on the help of others to access the languages. One way will feed you the cup of water each time you seek nourishment; the other way you will be shown how to get the water for yourself.

May your investment prove to be wise my friend!

Regards

mwk

I actually had that $500 video package on my Wish List. But I realized it didn't do what I really wanted... to learn to be able to read the New Testament in Greek. Not for any specific reason... just for the joy of it.

I will happily stand corrected, but that video package is not really about truly learning the Greek (or Hebrew) language. It's more of a way for pastors or others to be able to use Logos more quickly to incorporate Hebrew/Greek into their teaching or studies. And that's great. But from what I've seen this product has been really confusing to people in terms of what they're going to get. I understand they've improved upon explaining the deliverables. But since questions are still being asked, maybe there's still room for improvement.

So it depends on what you're really wanting to do. For my goals, I probably need to approach Greek as one would any language.... learning from the ground up even though it might be a bit on the boring side starting out. (Right now I'm just at the entry-level Greek alphabet learning stage.)

I'm not completely clear on whether that's your goal or not. As someone else suggested, perhaps investing in a traditional language class might be worth considering.

One downside I see to the video package - especially at that price - is that they don't offer a sample session. I think that would help to make it more clear for people on what you're getting and what the end result will be. They do their best to explain it on the talking head videos, but people should really have the option of seeing a sample of what they're going to be paying for.

I'd just hate to see your spend so much and not get what you're truly after. Please take your time and make sure you're going to get exactly what you're going for.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381293#Comment_381293

So, are You planning on studying BOTH Gk and Hebrew?

I agree. $2000 is a hefty budget for books only. There might be room to pay for tuition in a class-setting.

My initial read of your post was that you wanted to read Hebrew and Greek. Perhaps this is indeed what you wish to pursue. If so, I believe a substantial investment of $2,000 would be better invested in a classroom setting then through books when endeavouring to learn a second language.

As for what resources to buy, BDAG is said to be good for Gk. It's a lexicon. There is also available a bundle with Hebrew. These resources are not absolutely necessary for just starting to learn, as there are lexicons and interlinears included in the Original Languages Library that are much better than the worst lexicons and interlinears.

There is a cheap item that You may want to start out with: http://www.logos.com/product/20260/read-greek-in-30-days-or-less-new-testament-old-testament-apocrypha-philo-church-fathers It looks good, I'm placing an order on it today.

As for English Bibles, there's not much need to add any of those. One Bible that I recommend, is the 1992 Good News Translation.

Then there are grammars, but I don't know which of them to recommend.

You may want to learn Sentence Diagramming, and someone else may point out a reference for that!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381302#Comment_381302

I'd just hate to see your spend so much and not get what you're truly after.

Logos does have a 30-day return policy. No quibbles, no questions, just a credit to the card you used for the purchase. That should give you enough time to sample the resources.

David Thomas

I plan on getting Original Languages Library and Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software at the end of the year. (I have no knowledge of the original languages)With my budget being approx. $2000, what additional texts would you recommend?

Thank you in advance

Bill

While the following recommendations will not allow you to read (and comprehend) the original languages, they will allow you to take the Reverse Interlinear tools in Logos4 and you will be able to understand what commentators are trying to communicate when they speak of a word, tense or aspect. These are the texts that I purchased in my 15 hour of original languages at Moody Theological Seminary. (plus one that is just about to be released)--which should give some hint to my conservative, evangelical bent.

BDAG/HALOT bundle so you will have a good lexicon in each of the original languages - This will help you to understand the meaning of individual words
Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament bundle - This will introduce you to "Discourse Analysis" which will help you to understand meaning that is communicated in the word order, arrangement of clauses and flow of sentences in a paragraph.
Lexham Discourse Hebrew Old Testament bundle - This does for Hebrew was the previous set does for Greek (it is not out yet, but based upon how good the Greek version is done I can't wait for the Hebrew to come out!!
New International Dictionary of Old Testament Theology and Exegesis - The word studies and articles of the themes in individual books of the Bible will help you understand the key elements that are being communicated in the original languages. (This is a more in depth resource than the Theological Wordbook of the Old Testament [TWOT] which is good, but not as extensive as NIDOTTE).
Theological Dictionary of the New Testament is basically a Greek version of NIDOTTE. There is a bundle that includes both the Old and New Testament versions of the New International Dictionary, but the TDNT is a little more extensive handling of the Greek in my opinion. (I have both NIDNT in paper and TDNT in Logos).
Exegetical Fallacies is a good reminder to protect you from embarrassing yourself by speaking as if you know more than you actually do. I use this resource to check myself to see if I might be seeing something that is not really there.

You will want to take some time to figure out how to use Louw-Nida in Greek. It will help you to identify the range of words which helps you identify why the author chose a particular word. for example, in English I could use strolled, walked, ran, moved, hurried, jogged, etc. to describe human movement. If you know the range of words that can be used, it helps to isolate the particular nuance in whatever word I chose. The most common example of this is that it is common for preachers to emphasize the different words for love in Greek (Eros, Phileo, Storgeo, or Agape). What are the nuances of these different words and do they always carry distinctions. Or in other words, when are they mere synonyms and when is the nuance being intentionally used?

With these resources, I do not do my devotions in the Original Languages or feel like I am qualified to write a Hebrew commentary or publish my own translation, but I do feel empowered to interact with good commentaries and can glean insights that would be missed if I were restricted to English translations. I hope this helps.

BKMitchell

I plan on getting Original Languages Library and Learn Biblical Greek and Hebrew with Logos Bible Software at the end of the year. (I have no knowledge of the original languages)With my budget being approx. $2000, what additional texts would you recommend?...

Let, me be the first to congratulate you on selecting the best Logos base library!

If, you have not already purchased that Library, my advise to you is to enroll in RTS (Reform Theological Seminary)'s Virtual campus' online Hebrew class with Futato. Because, his course requires a Logos base-package if you enroll in it you will be able to get Logos4 for 50% off the normal price. And more importantly you will be gaining to resources or rather skills; one a basic working knowledge of classical Hebrew and two a course teaching you to use Logos for research.

"Course Purpose
To encourage you in enjoying an abundant life to the glory of God!

Course Goal
To facilitate your success in acquiring a basic knowledge of Hebrew grammar and essential
skills in the use of Hebrew, so that you can study and teach the Hebrew Bible with greater
depth and accuracy and enjoy a richer life."

Check out the Course Syllabi:

Intro to Biblical Hebrew (with Logos)

http://www.rts.edu/Site/Academics/docs/syllabi/Virtual/Heb_I_Futato-Moodle.pdf

Grace and Peace

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381381#Comment_381381

If, you have not already purchased that Library, my advise to you is to enroll in RTS (Reform Theological Seminary)'s Virtual campus' online Hebrew class with Futato

I would concur that this is good advice. [Y] Moody Theological Seminary also does a modular version of this (do pre-class work online, attend class for a week, then do post-class work) but the Hebrew I class is not offered as frequently as it looks like RTS does.

BKMitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381383#Comment_381383

Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary also offers Hebrew and Greek via Distance education and online.

http://www.gordonconwell.edu/semlink/documents/semlink_ol501_syllabus.pdf

http://www.gordonconwell.edu/semlink/Division-of-Biblical-Studies.cfm

Of, course if the original poster lives near a seminary, university, college, or community center that offers Hebrew or Greek that may even be better.

Anyway thanks I did not know that Moody Theological Seminary offered Hebrew this way, although I have seen some of their course modules being sold at Logos.com.

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/381387#Comment_381387

Trinity Southwest University in Albuquerque also offers Greek and Hebrew, with completely off-campus options. It is very affordable (I think you could probably arrange a certificate program in Greek or Hebrew for about $1K each, if credit towards a degree isn't an issue for you). I am looking to sign up to take a "refresher" after having formally studied some 25 years or so (at a different, more traditional institution)! I've forgotten most of what I knew from lack of use. I think Trinity's course offerings will be exactly the help I need, esp. supplemented by Logos.

www.trinitysouthwest.com

DMB

William ... you surmised the answers might be 'all over the board'. Okie dokie.

I'd strongly suggest you think about learning russian (I picked that only because it's 'far away'; Chinese, Japanese, anything that has a differing alphabet/character group, and you can't decipher it).

Then imagine getting a book on Russian to learn it. Or indeed videos. Or indeed some Americans (where I am anyway) to teach you Russian.

What do you have? You can now read and maybe even speak Russian.

But do you 'know' russian. Don't think so. You'd have to ALSO become very familiar with the background to the culture and the background to the language.

You mention a comfort level with ancient texts (good), grammars (good), lexicons (good) and dictionaries (all good). But you seem to shy away from the tremendous expertise in the background to what you're looking at. Just like the Ethiopian eunuch; he could easily read and speak. Very likely both greek and aramaic. That's why 'somehow' you also need resources that bring in various background experts. Often commentaries, sometimes collections, whichever you're comfortable with. They don't have to be theological. Look for the word 'critical'. And maintain your own independence.

A good example? Take the greek word 'ecclesia' or the english word 'church'. Is it instead 'congregation' or even 'gathering'? And why does that matter? Because it does matter.

tom

My interests only in adding more bibles, interlinear bibles, ancient texts and morphologies, ancient texts in translation, original language grammers and tools, and original language lexicons and dictionaries (dictionaries are my preference)

If you want to know the original languages, then you DO NOT want any interlinear bibles. I will even say this. If all you want to do is to study the language, you do not want Logos. What you want is BibleWorks because BibleWorks only does the original languages (and is much cheaper and faster). If you want to do more with your study, than Logos is the way you want to go. Check the many postings about the advantages of Logos and of BibleWorks on their websites. Each tool is different (I have both) and have different strengths.

You will also want to add BDAG & HALOT