*********** 10 was released for Mac and all I can say is WOW!! An app that runs like a Mac app should and man did they make some nice improvements appearance and operation. Look out Logos it's also coming to Windows in 2013.
Yep, Incredible release!!!!
Logos folk? You there? We are going to have to have a response here, please. Teasers. Anything?
Teasers. Anything?
This thread is referring to a program by another company. I doubt Logos would have much to add. I appreciate the information about the upgrade to that other Mac bible program. My initial experience was a beachball and crash when trying to open the library (seems to be working OK after restarting). Their company forums noted some bugs and promised an bug fix release real soon. Nice to know that this is the way real mac programs are supposed to work[:P]. (sorry, I couldn't resist the sarcasm). Old time Mac fans tend to be somewhat odd (almost religious) when it comes their computer of choice. I tend to take the hyperbola with a grain of salt.(Disclaimer, I'm writing this on a Macbook Pro).
PS. Nice to see this coming to windows. I wonder if George would have a comment about that (ie something about real computers [:S])
What I'm saying is...I hope the guys in the Flatiron building are pulling an all-nighter, because the competition is getting way more competitive. Both of the other cutting-edge alternatives have released major upgrades as Logos 4 has made its way to 4.5c SR-4. This is 2 full upgrades for the mac guys. What's in store for those of us who are thousands of dollars into L4? What's on the plate? It's clear that the guys from cutting-edge competitor for Mac have spent a lot of time looking at L4. A nice word (call it hand-holding) would be nice from the L4 team. Where are we on new features? What is on the agenda? etc.
This competitor's program is a long overdue break from an ancient code base they have been updating since System 7. (similar to what Logos did with L4). I'm not sure what you mean by the other alternative but if it is the one that also upgraded to Version 10 they still don't have a native mac version (wine and X11 don't count) or an iPad version that is even close to what Logos has. I'd like to see Logos reach feature parity and continue to improve performance with the current code base. I did notice that the other program doesn't have full screen support which is something that Mac users have complained about with Logos (I'd love to see this feature added to Logos). Besides, nobody has the number or quality of resources Logos has. Until that happens there really is no competition for Logos outside or original language studies. ( I don't mean to to denigrate that other program I do have a significant investment in that program because of the textual criticism and original language tools)
I'm interested in knowing the competitor. Would someone send me a message and let me know the name. Thanks!
It's Accordance. There's no rules against mentioning competitors (Logos does ask that we don't promote competitors though--keep that in mind). I think it looks more like Logos now.
Yes, it looks very nice, very modern and is extremely fast. Only one real bug and the workaround for it was found in min. Logos does still have more resources so I will still use both programs. Accordance for all my heavy lifting with greek and hebrew and search work. Logos as a "reader" for the other resources I need. One for speed, one for read. I am glad to have both, wish it could be "all in one" but don't think that is ever really going to be a reality as everything today is so specialized. It was a great rollout for them though, huge upgrade, servers were hammered but min. problems. I thought they did really well. Don't know why someone here was talking negatively about them having "old code" , been an Accordance user a long time, never had any real problems and it's always been screaming fast. It's just different software: They specialize in Original Language work , Logos specializes in Resources. I for one need both of them. If Logos does well, we all benefit, both Logos customers and everyone else. If Accordance does well, we all benefit, Accordance customers and everyone else. Each one's success makes everyone else better, as each one advances, we all benefit . I can remember when Biblical Software was just a baby, I "know" we have all benefited from each companies advances. So, well done Accordance, thanks for making everyones future Biblical Software better, including Logos.
Nice to know that this is the way real mac programs are supposed to work. (sorry, I couldn't resist the sarcasm).
Having been an early adopter of the Mac OS (June 84), I am always amused by comments about applications being "Mac-like" or "the way a Mac app should work". In the early days of L4, Windows users complained that it was not "Windows-like".
Remember when you first paid for Logos 4? Who cared about beach balls we didn't even have a complete working program for months and now years down the road we're still waiting for completion and promised performance. A beach ball, reboot and and bug fix promise from a company that follows through on it's promises and you want to be sarcastic. Here's my opinion, stick with Logos, you'll be much happier.
talking negatively about them having "old code" ,
This wasn't really a negative. the other program ran well but was held back by the need to run in a system 7 emulator. (this was discussed at length on their own forums.) The old program ran well but limited the program. Hopefully the new version will allow the company to move forward with features such as full screen support. The new version seems to be easier to use and does have a more modern look to it. I think Bibleworks would need to be worried about this coming to windows since it provides similar or better original language tools with and interface that doesn't require a computer science major to use. Like you, I use both.
Unfortunately there seem to be a lot of negative comments about Logos for Mac on these boards and the original post case across as a jab at Logos. Sometimes reading the forums make we question my decision to switch to Macs (until I start using my thinkpad again and realize that I'm not missing anything [;)] ). Logos works very well for the majority of Mac users. and they continue to improve it.
The thing that Logos does extremely well that Accordance cannot touch yet is the flexibility it allows you in exporting the Biblical text. That feature is very important to me, and I applaud Logos on its accomplishments in that area.
Soli Deo Gloria,
Randy
We have to remember that Logos has changed/moved its focus. Logos is no longer a company that focuses on producing a software program designed to study the bible.
IMHO, Logos is now a company that wants to be the Walmart for the electronic Christian culture. Do you want a program to study the bible, we have that (L4). Do you want a program to display slides on a screen during worship, we have that (proclaim). Do you want a christian social media website, we have that (faithlife.com). Do you want to read christian fiction, we have that (vysro). Do you want an electronic study bible, we have that too (faithlife study bible).
IMHO, I think Bob has made some bad decisions, and because of this Logos is stretched very thin.
As it was stated earlier in this post, Bob guessed wrong with L4 and the platform they used to build it. L4 can do some neat things, but it is not a good program when it comes to performance. It simply does not run well on too many computers. IMHO, it comes from the fact that they did not do the research into designing the program (from bob's statement to write code first, and design, debug, and optimize later). Because of this, they have had to rewrite L4 (think of sync). If Logos would have taken the time to design the program, then they would not have to spend the $$$$ in rewriting the program.
IMHO, I also think Bob has guessed wrong with faithlife.com. I do not see it adding enough value so that more people would be buying more books to offset the cost of creating and running a social media website.
I am not sure about FSB. In their current marketing plans on having this be a $30 annual cost for the users, I again see this as a bad decision because I do not believe that it is going bring in enough revenue to offset the cost.
IMHO, Logos needs to refocus on what it wants to do as a company. If not, then their competitors are going to pass them with a better program, and sooner or later the other programs will also have resources that users want.
I don't want anyone to think of my participation in this thread as negative. I use logos every day. It hardly goes off on my mac. My hope is that Logos does the same thing that Accordance has obviously done: look at the competition and raise the bar. It is an exciting opportunity for any cutting-edge, tech driven company. They know where the competition is, and have a good idea what needs to be done to take their product beyond the current level of the competition. BMW's slogan "the ultimate driving machine." Is not just aimed at the potential consumer, but at Mercedes Benz. "The best, or nothing.", Mercedes, slogan likewise throws the gauntlet down to BMW. The consumer benefits from the competition. If BMW settles for "The Pen-ultimate driving machine" The game is up and a lot of folk switch platforms. Logos claims to be the best. Many of us have voted with our dollars. Now it is for Logos to "re-imagine Bible study; again."
..... Logos claims to be the best. Many of us have voted with our dollars. Now it is for Logos to "re-imagine Bible study; again."
[Y]
Accordance has already issued 10.01 to fix a couple glitches. Thats pretty fast, new version is not three days old yet.
It does look interesting and yes it seems very fast. For me, the main deciding factor is what resources are available. There are so many choices in terms of commentaries and other resources in Logos which Accordance can't really match. Also the prices are very competitive.
On the negative side, I just wish that the mac version was faster, and a bit more reliable (I still sometimes get unexplained crashes).
I do think the Logos guys do great work, but I agree they are diversifying quite a bit with Faithlife and Vyrso, I just hope the rest of the products don't suffer as a result.
