Bible Sense Lexicon - Potential, but a ways to go

I found the Bible Sense Lexicon in tools. Not intuitive, and it's not a resource as I would expect. It's a lexical tool that works from English to the original languages.

To keep from confusing people (like me) that it's not a lexicon, maybe a different name could be given to it. (Nothing comes to mind at the moment.)

So, since I'm preaching on generosity this week, I decided to input generosity. That word doesn't appear. Okay. I understand. It's still a work in progress. So I found "giving" and went with that.

Here's the problem: the first entry is (Greek) tikto, which means to give birth, the second is kaleo to call (trans. of "give him the name" in the synoptics), other irrelevant entries populate a long list of words (that would look better as a list, BTW, rather than a paragraph).

Clicking one of the words opens a BWS - which is good. For now, it opens in a different pane, rather than in the tool. I suppose that behavior will be updated later(?).

This tells me how the false hits are coming. The BWS shows how words are translated in the reverse interlinear of choice. Sometimes the translation wheel reflects the translation of a phrase, rather than a particular word. A word like poieo, combined with other words has a very wide range of meaning.

I can see how this can greatly simplify things, but it also reduces the helpfulness of the tool (IMHO). I'm not sure what to suggest to increase the specificity of the words found, but as is, I probably won't use it.

But maybe I just picked one of the worst words I could pick. Wink

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MJ. Smith

Drats - I can't get any results. Is it a semantic web? If so that will be great!!

Mark Barnes

So, since I'm preaching on generosity this week, I decided to input generosity. That word doesn't appear. Okay. I understand. It's still a work in progress. So I found "giving" and went with that.

Here's the problem: the first entry is (Greek) tikto, which means to give birth, the second is kaleo to call (trans. of "give him the name" in the synoptics), other irrelevant entries populate a long list of words (that would look better as a list, BTW, rather than a paragraph).

That's odd. I get didomi, as you'd expect.

I presumed that the right-hand panel is going to do something clever in the future. But I can't think what!

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/400899#Comment_400899

Drats - I can't get any results. Is it a semantic web? If so that will be great!!

Not sure how the results come. Just start typing an English word and a drop-down "auto-completer" should appear.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/400925#Comment_400925

That's odd. I get didomi, as you'd expect.

Yes, didomai is in the list, but so are a lot of other words.

Maybe a graphic will help.

As you can see, there are more words that are irrelevant, than are relevant in the list. Obviously, I'm not pointing out all the irrelevant words, and this list is long enough to require a slider.

EDIT: Oops! Missed anapauo in the list above. (I just didn't bother with words after pseudomartyreo.) Also, I note that many of these words are properly translated with the English word "give" in the translation, like "give birth," "give a name," etc. The point is, that when one is searching for the Biblical sense of "give," such results are not very helpful, and might prove confusing.
I wonder if there is any way to prioritize the list for words that have a primary meaning (center of the translation circle) equal to the search term, rather than the current list, which seems to be random (in order of 1st appearance in Scripture?).

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/400925#Comment_400925

I presumed that the right-hand panel is going to do something clever in the future. But I can't think what!

It would really be nice if instead of opening up a BWS the tool would default to opening your preferred lexicon in the RH pane. From that I could right click and do a BWS.

If Logos wants to put something else in there, fine, but please don't require that a BWS be generated to get a fuller definition.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/400976#Comment_400976

Just start typing an English word and a drop-down "auto-completer" should appear.

I don't get the drop down - the main window says that there is no data.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401049#Comment_401049

I don't get the drop down - the main window says that there is no data.

Try running the update resources command and restart L5.

This seemed to help those with a similar (same?) problem here: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/55421.aspx

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401053#Comment_401053

Thanks Richard - that is what I am in the process of trying. The update is very flakey. It picked up only one of the two resources that were shipped yesterday. L4 picked up both and it was run first.

Bob Pritchett

This is a very significant data set, but we haven't finished the data set or the user interface for exploring it.

When it's complete, you'll be able to explore a hierarchy of word senses and use word senses as search terms. The senses are being developed specifically for Greek and Hebrew but will then be mapped to each other and English senses, too.

So a sense hierarchy might look like:

entity
    • physical entity
        • object
            • whole
                • living thing
                    • vegetation
                        • plant
                            • produce plant
                                • barley plant

And you could then search for a barley plant (however described), or any "produce plant", or any plant, or any vegetation, etc. Eventually every word/phrase in the text will be mapped to a specific sense, and you'll be able to find it using whatever "semantic granularity" you'd like.

The Bible Sense Lexicon will let you explore the sense database, navigating not just the hierarchy but the links between different hierarchies. (Some words/senses belong in multiple hierarchies.)

You can imagine this as taking some of what the Louw Nida lexicon is, and mixing in a lot of what the Princeton WordNet for English is, with the added value of manual, contextual annotation and disambiguation of the original texts. It is going to be a very powerful tool.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401124#Comment_401124

The Bible Sense Lexicon will let you explore the sense database, navigating not just the hierarchy but the links between different hierarchies. (Some words/senses belong in multiple hierarchies.)

You can imagine this as taking some of what the Louw Nida lexicon is, and mixing in a lot of what the Princeton WordNet for English is, with the added value of manual, contextual annotation and disambiguation of the original texts. It is going to be a very powerful tool.

Sounds amazing. What we have so far doesn't do justice to what's coming. I'll be looking forward to the fully developed tool.

Since it's not a lexicon in the traditional sense [cough, cough], that is, since it's not a resource but a tool, have you considered a different name? Maybe "Bible Word Sense Explorer," captures the idea of the tool better than "Lexicon." Maybe. But it's your baby. And you always get to name your own babies.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401124#Comment_401124

Can we presume that Bibles are tagged with these 'senses' - or that the 'senses' are tied to Biblical Facts. It sounds like the Advanced English Dictionary on my iPhone:

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401148#Comment_401148

Sounds to me like a good start on a semantic web[:D]

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/400981#Comment_400981

As far as I can see the Passage Selector doesn't work.

Clicking it produces a drop-down menu (just as in Bible search) and you can select a range - however this doesn't have any effect and "All Passages" stays selected

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401206#Comment_401206

The current drop-down lists multiple identical words - see example below

While clicking on the different "peaces" - for example - results in different information being displayed there is no indication of that in the drop-down.

Is this going to be changed at all?

Graham

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401209#Comment_401209

While clicking on the different "peaces" - for example

These should be different senses of the word i.e. there should be one entry for each meaning (sense) of the word. Unfortunately, we can't really see the results yet

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401240#Comment_401240

It's a little premature - with a word like "give" I'd rather use Bible Word Study

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401252#Comment_401252

with a word like "give" I'd rather use Bible Word Study

Unless they do something dramatic with the right side, I don't see the value. BWS provides the same information, and more.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401257#Comment_401257

Honest guys, I think we're seeing the beginning of a semantic web. If I am right it really will be a major addition to our tools. The content of the drop down display option and Bob's hierarchical example are what makes me think that's what it is. [Plus I asked for it a couple of years ago; Bob always listens to me (like notes, pericopes, lectionaries - okay my record is not great)[;)]]

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401150#Comment_401150

Sounds to me like a good start on a semantic web

Correct.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401267#Comment_401267

Correct.

Very nice.

Of course I'd still like to see lexicons open instead of a BWS.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401267#Comment_401267

This looks like fun.

How might it work with concepts like "faithfulness," "hope," "justification," or the like? (Pick which ever one makes the prettiest graph -- or pick your own).

Bob Pritchett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401274#Comment_401274

How might it work with concepts like "faithfulness," "hope," "justification," or the like? (Pick which ever one makes the prettiest graph -- or pick your own).

I can't answer all of these, because the data is still being worked on. (And I'm not an expert in it.)

But you can explore an English wordnet to see examples of the power and complexity of this type of mapping:

http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=hope&sub=Search+WordNet&o2=&o0=1&o8=1&o1=1&o7=&o5=&o9=&o6=&o3=&o4=&h=

Enter a word like lamb in here, and you'll see it has several senses. A young sheep, a person with easily cheated or deceived, the flesh of a young domestic sheep eaten as food, etc. (You can drill down to see the sense hierarchy for anyone of them, too. Click the "S" and choose inherited hypernym.) If you tag every word of a text with a specific sense you get some powerful search capabilities. I could find every use of "lamb" to refer to a victim of a con artist. Or I could search for the higher-up-the-tree sense of "meat" to find lamb and beef and pork, and know that the query won't return "lamb" when it's referring to a lamb in walking, bleating state, rather than roasted with mint sauce state.

As the data set matures, and more features are written, some really powerful searching is possible. Just imagine having this "sense disambiguation" applied to other ancients texts (whether by hand or in less-than-perfect automated ways). This would enable new ways of finding parallels, allusions, and relevant contextual literature.

Now I'd better stop, before it sounds like I'm promising something (I'm not!), or I get too far out of my depth. Sean Boisen and the other team members will show up sooner or later to explain more. Though right now they're busy working on the data!

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401306#Comment_401306

Now I'd better stop, before it sounds like I'm promising something (I'm not!), or I get too far out of my depth.

You don't need to promise. Build a basic element of natural language processing and good things will happen naturally. I promise to have high expectations ... but give you a bit of time for them to happen.[8-|]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401306#Comment_401306

I'm a great fan of visualthesaurus.com, so matching that kind of interface with the search facilities your screenshot shows could be fabulous.

Sean Boisen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401148#Comment_401148

Can we presume that Bibles are tagged with these 'senses' - or that the 'senses' are tied to Biblical Facts. It sounds like the Advanced English Dictionary on my iPhone:

Yes, we're annotating both OT and NT with these senses, so you can get a "sense concordance" and look across the testaments for particular meanings. I believe your app (and definitely the Visual Thesaurus) are built on top of English Wordnet

Eventually they'll tie back to Bible Facts, though mostly Things: we're not doing names because they don't really have "senses" in the same sense [insert groan: you can expect a lot of these bad puns around this feature for the foreseeable future].

Unfortunately i have a different L5 build so i haven't yet been able to see what all of you are seeing! But once i do, i'll respond to some of the detailed questions.

Sean Boisen

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401209#Comment_401209

The current drop-down lists multiple identical words - see example below

While clicking on the different "peaces" - for example - results in different information being displayed there is no indication of that in the drop-down.

Is this going to be changed at all?

Graham

Yes: the released version will have a unique label in the drop-down list for each sense.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401676#Comment_401676

Yes: the released version will have a unique label in the drop-down list for each sense.

Excellent.

Thanks, Sean

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401680#Comment_401680

...I sense [:)] something really exciting is on the horizon with this tool. Looking forward to it.

P.S. You think George Somsel will like it? [:D]

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401672#Comment_401672

[insert groan: you can expect a lot of these bad puns around this feature for the foreseeable future].

In one sense this has me really excited. All my senses are tingling. I hope that didn't come across as nonsense.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401696#Comment_401696

P.S. You think George Somsel will like it?

He's enough of a linguist he should like it. He's enough of a curmudgeon I think it will take time for him to warm up to it. In fact I suspect that the majority of users will take some time to realize how powerful a tool it ultimately will be once you really understand how to use it.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/401816#Comment_401816

P.S. You think George Somsel will like it?

He's enough of a linguist he should like it. He's enough of a curmudgeon I think it will take time for him to warm up to it. In fact I suspect that the majority of users will take some time to realize how powerful a tool it ultimately will be once you really understand how to use it.

Yes, I want to learn, so I will stay close to you (and looking forward to George's comments) [:)]