Why I don't use tags
There is a lot of potential in tagging resources. However Bob has mentioned they do not invest in tagging because people do not use them. I am one of those who does not use tags and I would like to explain way.
Dispite all their great potential, tags are useless. Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10. Dispite going 90% of the way tags have no value because they did not cross the finish line. what is missing? the ability to appropriately manage the tags.I can create tags like there is no tomorrow. But if I want to delete tags I have two options. Go one by one through the tags I want to remove or start over at that the 1 yard line and delete all the tags for the resources. Since neither of those options are acceptable in the practicle world I don't use tags.
In the beginning of L4 I went heywire with tags because it sounded like a great idea. Come on, 90% implementation is pretty good, right? But as soon as i realized that all the work I put in to tagging didn't end up making points it was over.
All this to ask Logos...please allow me to highlight a bunch of resource in the library and delete only one tag from all those resources.
Comments
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Halo Hound said:
Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10.
Good points! We also need a convenient place to find all of our tags in a editable list. We also need autofill so when we start typing a tag, Logos helps out.
Now the ball is in Logos court. TAG, YOUR IT!
macOS, iOS & iPadOS |Logs| Install
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Oh to dream a dream! I love your two suggestions, but I see them as the extra point. All I want is to get on the score board. I can see a list of all my tags ( library sorted by tags) and if I could delete a single tag from multiple resources I could edit a tag (highlight all of the tagged resources, add the new tags edited name, delete the old tag name). If I I name a tag incorrectly because it did not auto fill I could simply tag them w the correct tag when I see my error and then delete the incorrect tag. But using tags at all hinges on being able to delete one tag from a group of resources without deleting all the others.alabama24 said:Halo Hound said:Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10.
Good points! We also need a convenient place to find all of our tags in a editable list. We also need autofill so when we start typing a tag, Logos helps out.
Now the ball is in Logos court. TAG, YOUR IT!
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I agree 100%.
Given the increasing size of our libraries, tags are increasingly necessary. I too lament that there is no way to efficiently manage tagging. It would be really good if Logos could reconsider and make serious improvements in this area.
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Halo Hound said:
All this to ask Logos...please allow me to highlight a bunch of resource in the library and delete only one tag from all those resources.
That's all I want for Christmas, too.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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alabama24 said:Halo Hound said:
Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10.
Good points! We also need a convenient place to find all of our tags in a editable list. We also need autofill so when we start typing a tag, Logos helps out.
Now the ball is in Logos court. TAG, YOUR IT!
So very very very true! I see what is happening with tags is the same thing that happened with notes. Users did not use notes because the product was (and still is IMHO) so poorly designed. I think the same thing is true with tags; the product was so poorly designed that not many people us them.
To continue with the American Football analogy, I will say that Logos did not stop at the 10 yard line. I would say that they stopped at the 45 yard line (out of field goal range). There is a lot of work to do IMHO to make a touchdown with tags.
Here are my recommendations:
- 1. Everything should be able to be tagged (why can we tag clippings and not notes? I need to tag my notes - not clippings).
- 2. We should be able to assign values (or sub tags) to our tags. For an example, I should be able to tag a resource as history, and then add the value "Lutheran" to stated that the resource is for Lutheran history. For my notes, I could tag the note as scripture, and then add several values to the scripture tag for which scripture verses that the note applies
- 3. We should be able to run reports on our tags (what notes/resources have what tags).
- 4. Able to edit/delete our tags without opening up every resource.
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Halo Hound said:
Bob has mentioned they do not invest in tagging
Hadn't heard that. Very depressing if true.
Halo Hound said:because people do not use them
If that was so, Provide management of mytags wouldn't have 316 votes and be number 11 on Uservoice. Please vote for it, those of you who haven't. I'll go add a link to this thread in the comments.
Halo Hound said:Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10.
Just like with hiding. Most of what I'd like to hide, I can't, because there's no reasonable way to get it back.
Same (or similar) with notes.
Halo Hound said:Since neither of those options are acceptable in the practicle world I don't use tags.
I've chosen to use them, hoping they'd get better before my need to change them got acute. I can't say I'm quite there yet, but I certainly have a lot I'd like to improve.
Easiest way I can think of to fix tagging: instead of typing, give us a dropdown with all tags and check boxes before each one. A blank line at the bottom to create a new tag. Right-click option to rename or delete a tag entirely (delete demanding verification).
When tagging multiple resources you'd get what other programs give you: an empty check box if none of them has the tag, a checked one if all of them has it, and a hyphen if some do and some don't.
Imagine how easy that would be:
- Incredibly easy to add, remove and rename tags any way you want, one resource or many.
- No endless typing of five or more tags for one resource, just five quick clicks in the right boxes.
- No risk of misspelling a tag or forgetting how you've abbreviated something, and ending up with two tags for the same category.
- Greatly diminished risk of forgetting to add a tag that should have been there.
Mac Pro (late 2013) OS 12.6.2
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Now, come on, Halo Hound. We're up at Boulder on football weekend. They don't 'do' 10 yards. If you're at 90 then you're at 100.
But imagine if you will, that you're the Logos4 designer (we're talking back in 2007 I guess). You come up with the idea of 'tags'. Another really great idea is to allow multiple tags. And of course people do make mistakes. So you design in the great feature of erasing ALL the tags for highlighted resources, when you use the delete tags button.
I just don't see the problem, other than it should have been pretty obvious 5 years ago.
I never have used the user voting. Reason is many (most) of these issues would have been long ago taken care of if Logos used Logos.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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alabama24 said:
Now the ball is in Logos court. TAG, YOUR IT!
Agree with the suggestions put forward n this thread. Time to get in the game Logos, the users are waiting idle for you to start playing.
One of my biggest bugs with Logos use of usage statistics is they simply say oh people aren't using that so lets forget about improving that feature. They need to have a mind shift and start asking us why we are not using feature x.
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Andrew Mckenzie said:alabama24 said:
Now the ball is in Logos court. TAG, YOUR IT!
They need to have a mind shift and start asking us why we are not using feature x.Couldn't agree more. It should not come as a wonder that we avoid using something that is unfinished.
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Halo Hound said:
Dispite all their great potential, tags are useless. Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10. Dispite going 90% of the way tags have no value because they did not cross the finish line.
Your phone needs a spill checker[:)]
I agree that Logos have performed below expectations on too many features like Word Lists (70%), Passage Lists (90%), Highlighting/Notes (70%), PB (80%). But they still have value unless you habitually ignore the accomplishment of getting the ball over the halfway line!
In this instance, I don't use multiple tags per resource to a degree that could become a maintenance hassle. A combination of tags and Rating lets me overcome Logos' implementation of certain resource type: tags and satisfy my own classification.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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[Y]Andrew Mckenzie said:One of my biggest bugs with Logos use of usage statistics is they simply say oh people aren't using that so lets forget about improving that feature. They need to have a mind shift and start asking us why we are not using feature x.
[y]DMB said:I just don't see the problem, other than it should have been pretty obvious 5 years ago.
I never have used the user voting. Reason is many (most) of these issues would have been long ago taken care of if Logos used Logos.
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Dave Hooton said:Halo Hound said:
Dispite all their great potential, tags are useless. Logos drove the ball to the 90 yard line but gets no points because they never took it the last 10. Dispite going 90% of the way tags have no value because they did not cross the finish line.
Your phone needs a spill checker.
l blame Siri.
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Thank God for this thread! I have suffered in silence with the incomplete tags feature for a long time. I for one do use and NEED tags. I generally tag my resources in order to categorize, sub-categorize or sometimes even as a reminder (such as Must Read tag).
I have placed tags hoping that Logos would improve the feature later. One of the most practical uses for me is to place labels on my commentaries or systematic theologies. There are times I may want a Reformed vs. Dispensational perspective or to be aware of the nuance of the writer. Tagging allows me to do this without having to remember later, or to work with groups of these tagged resources. With large libraries how often do you "rediscover" a resource or "forget" one was there. Tags help this immensely.
Why we don't have a drop down list to easily apply existing tags, or a way to actively manage tags is beyond me. This is one of my most desired features. I may need to apply 5 tags to a new resource. Right now I have a back log of resources to do this with but guess what it takes too long so it feels like a chore.
I'm willing to bet that tagging is not being used because it is not very easy to maintain and is limited in power in it's current state and NOT that it is something users are not interesting in.
In the current state tagging is akin to having a large electronic library that you still need to hand write post it notes in order to tag them. That is what it feels like.
I now have the ability to highlight and note to death but the simple task of an easy category system like tagging I cannot do.
Wish List:
1. Create and edit Tags globally
2. Easily apply existing tags to single or multiple resources easily (pull down or check box etc.)
3. Ability to apply tags to all items including notes.
4. More robust way to create Collections with tags (simple click which tags should be in collection instead of command line)
This would be amazing and save me so much time.
Logos 5, Windows & Android perfect together....
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Kevin Taylor said:
4. More robust way to create Collections with tags (simple click which tags should be in collection instead of command line)
While the library can show what tags a resource has, missing is a way to display what collection(s) contain a resource. Currently have to look at collection(s) to see what resource(s) are in the collection.
Adding a tag to a resource creates a collection for the tag. Hence removing a tag from a resource would also change collection membership. Personally would appreciate a note field for each resource, which does not have an automatic collection. Ideally would like option to use my note field for managing collection membership.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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My ONLY problem with tags is the non ability to delete a group of the same tag WITHOUT losing every tag in that grouping.
Regards, SteveF
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I use tags all the time, on Evernote, My Blog, My Email, but I don't use it in L4 for the very reasons discussed above! Get with it Logos!
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Todd Phillips said:Halo Hound said:
All this to ask Logos...please allow me to highlight a bunch of resource in the library and delete only one tag from all those resources.
That's all I want for Christmas, too.
[Y][Y][G]
Bohuslav
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Now and again I discover a tag name that I assigned to a resource but I had completely forgotten about this tag. I have wondered if I should start a list on a paper with all my tags because a forgotten tag is useless. There is a real need for good tag management.
Armin
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Armin said:
Now and again I discover a tag name that I assigned to a resource but I had completely forgotten about this tag. I have wondered if I should start a list on a paper with all my tags because a forgotten tag is useless. There is a real need for good tag management.
Armin
Armin, yes, we need a better tag management, but to see all your tags you can already by clicking on the tag column in the Library.
Bohuslav
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Armin, yes, we need a better tag management, but to see all your tags you can already by clicking on the tag column in the Library.
... except if you tag clippings as well .... they just disappear ... except for when you search ... and if you can remember which tag you used ... and if you used the correct spelling ... and if you have not changed your tagging paradigm in the years since tagging was introduced.
Within the clippings db, each clipping has a deliminated list of tags applied to it. Within resources, if memory serves me correctly, there is a relational set of tables ... even the implementation of tagging in L4 is not consistent [:(] There is much work to be done under the hood I suspect.
2017 15" MBP, iPad Pro
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DMB said:
I never have used the user voting. Reason is many (most) of these issues would have been long ago taken care of if Logos used Logos.
LOLOL This really got me chuckling. [:P] My friend, whom I am embarressed to say bought Logos4Mac because he saw how I used L3, thought it was pretty funny too.
Btw, this ISN'T the good funny. Still, funny nonetheless. [:D]
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Armin, yes, we need a better tag management, but to see all your tags you can already by clicking on the tag column in the Library.
Dear Brother!
*smile*
Thanks so very much! Your sharing is very helpful.... I really should have known that, I guess; however I just didn't! I have been using tags and relying on my memory. Your post helped me review what I had, make a couple of corrections, and empowered me for even stronger use of Logos4.
May God always give you Peace and Joy through our Lord Jesus!
Who knows? I might even become a Power User one of these days!
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
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Milford Charles Murray said:
Who knows? I might even become a Power User one of these days!
Milford, I am glad it helped you. May be not Logos, but you are a true "power user" of your heart my brother. [:)] All your posts are so encouraging. I am very glad you are back on the forums. Let God strengthen your health even more.
Bohuslav
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Martin Folley said:Bohuslav Wojnar said:
Armin, yes, we need a better tag management, but to see all your tags you can already by clicking on the tag column in the Library.
... except if you tag clippings as well .... they just disappear ... except for when you search ... and if you can remember which tag you used ... and if you used the correct spelling ... and if you have not changed your tagging paradigm in the years since tagging was introduced.
Within the clippings db, each clipping has a deliminated list of tags applied to it. Within resources, if memory serves me correctly, there is a relational set of tables ... even the implementation of tagging in L4 is not consistent
There is much work to be done under the hood I suspect.Yes, you are right Martin. We definitely need a better tag management tool in Logos.
Bohuslav
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