The Codex Sinaiticus has recently released an electronic version of the text of Codex Sinaiticus.
What are the chances that this could be made into an electronic resource for Logos?
I've actually known about this text for awhile. I have inquired a few times to the British Library but have had no response. The kicker is this:
"The data is made available under a Creative Commons licence: it may not be used for commercial purposes, attribution must be made to the original creators (the Codex Sinaiticus Project, www.codexsinaiticus.org), and any derivatives must also be made freely available under the same terms as this original data."
The purpose of my inquiry is to confirm that Logos, which is a commercial company, could create and give away (free download) a resource representing this data. I've inquired a few times over the past six months, but have received no response as yet. Your inquiry reminds me I need to inquire again (just did that).
If/when there is a response, I'll be sure to update this thread with the results.
I wondered about that too, Rick. To me it sounds like you just can't sell the text, not that a commercial business can't give it away. But I see where you would want to be sure.
Thanks for keeping track of this!
Rick
I do hope that you will soon get a positive response. I'm probably "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs" but it might be worth pointing out to British Library that Logos has already done something similar with the Perseus resources.
Sinaiticus is a marvellous document. I go and check it out every time I'm down in London. It's worth looking at – even under glass!
Every blessing
Alan
Rick I do hope that you will soon get a positive response. I'm probably "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs" but it might be worth pointing out to British Library that Logos has already done something similar with the Perseus resources. Sinaiticus is a marvellous document. I go and check it out every time I'm down in London. It's worth looking at – even under glass! Every blessing Alan
I think it would be most valuable if it were to be a facsimile edition rather than a transcription. I have several resources which tell me what it says. I would rather see it myself.
I think it would be most valuable if it were to be a facsimile edition rather than a transcription.
George
You're absolutely right! That's why I like to go and take a look whenever I venture down to London from Buckie on the Moray Coast, where I live. The trouble is that I've got to look at the original at the page that is currently open.
it might be worth pointing out to British Library that Logos has already done something similar with the Perseus resources
Yes, and the message(s) I've sent to date have brought that up. Perseus' license is less restrictive than even the CC license attached to Sinaiticus, though.
There is a tremendous amount of metadata about the manuscript within the files from the British Library (folio, quire, corrector data, pages, columns, word breaks, etc.) I don't know that we'll encode all of that data into a Logos version should we receive the go-ahead to do it, at least in a first cut, but it's there for future reference and development.
I think it would be most valuable if it were to be a facsimile edition rather than a transcription. There is a tremendous amount of metadata about the manuscript within the files from the British Library (folio, quire, corrector data, pages, columns, word breaks, etc.) I don't know that we'll encode all of that data into a Logos version should we receive the go-ahead to do it, at least in a first cut, but it's there for future reference and development.
I am less interested in the metadata than I am in the actual letters themselves—how are they formed, etc, what about the corrector's entries?
Hi George.
what about the corrector's entries?
The view you see on the Sinaiticus web site (http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx), upper right corner -- I'm fairly sure it is driven by the same files. So the sort of data that allows that display, including corrector notation and correction, is available.
Full high-quality images are available on the web site, so — given internet access — one can check out the letters pretty easily.
Hi George. what about the corrector's entries? The view you see on the Sinaiticus web site (http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/manuscript.aspx), upper right corner -- I'm fairly sure it is driven by the same files. So the sort of data that allows that display, including corrector notation and correction, is available. Full high-quality images are available on the web site, so — given internet access — one can check out the letters pretty easily.
Yes, I am aware of that. The question is "Would these same features be available in a Logos edition (should it ever be effected)?
The question is "Would these same features be available in a Logos edition (should it ever be effected)?
The corrector data: Yes
The other metadata regarding page/column display, etc.: probably not, at least not initially.
The primary goal of getting this data into Logos would be for simple reference, and for allowing comparisons between other Greek NTs and Sinaiticus. The line breaks/etc. present some problems for efficient comparison.
Not to mention the ease of comparison within Sinaiticus itself. Could it also be grammatically tagged, Rick? I would think there would be some interesting searches that could be done across the whole manuscript as well.
Hi Peter.
There would be some issues with that, primarily the stipulation that we would have to license any derivatives with the same license and make the material available. That, and it would involve a significant investment to tag the text. After all, it is the LXX (mostly), plus NT, plus Hermas (mostly) and Barnabas.
I won't say 'never', but I can say that the initial release would not be tagged — if we're ever able to do it.
I see. But it would still be searchable, right?
Of course. Fully searchable by text; but no morph/lemma/etc.
The question is "Would these same features be available in a Logos edition (should it ever be effected)? The corrector data: Yes The other metadata regarding page/column display, etc.: probably not, at least not initially. The primary goal of getting this data into Logos would be for simple reference, and for allowing comparisons between other Greek NTs and Sinaiticus. The line breaks/etc. present some problems for efficient comparison.
You still haven't answered my question. Perhaps you don't want to answer? [^o)]
You still haven't answered my question. Perhaps you don't want to answer?
Maybe you can explicitly tell me what "these same features" are. As to the manuscript images themselves, those are not part of the transcription. So only the data represented by the XML transcription could possibly be made available.
If we're ever able to use that data (still waiting for the BL, remember), then the first implementation will likely be focused on something that is easily comparable to other LXX/NT editions in Logos — so that means no folio/quire/page/column/line breaks in the display, but a display more like a versified Bible. The XML metadata does specify paragraph breaks, so that is probably what would be used to segment the text above the verse level (but lower than the chapter level). For instance, Mk 1.40-44 is a paragraph, like this (note use of the lunate sigma):
40 και ερχεται προϲ αυτον λεπροϲ παρακαλων αυτον και γονυπετων λεγων αυτω οτι εαν θεληϲ δυναϲε με καθαριϲαι 41 και ϲπλαγχνιϲθειϲ εκτιναϲ την χειρα αυτου ηψατο κ(αι) λεγει θελω καθαριϲθητι 42 και ευθυϲ απηλθεν απ αυτου η λεπρα και εκαθαριϲθη 43 και εμβριμηϲαμενοϲ αυτω ευθυϲ εξεβαλε αυτον 44 και λεγει αυτω ορα μηδενι ειπηϲ αλλα ϋπαγε ϲαυτον διξο τω ιερει και προϲενεγκε περι του καθαριϲμου ϲου α προϲεταξεν μωυϲηϲ ειϲ μαρτυριο αυτοιϲ
You still haven't answered my question. Perhaps you don't want to answer? Maybe you can explicitly tell me what "these same features" are. As to the manuscript images themselves, those are not part of the transcription. So only the data represented by the XML transcription could possibly be made available. If we're ever able to use that data (still waiting for the BL, remember), then the first implementation will likely be focused on something that is easily comparable to other LXX/NT editions in Logos — so that means no folio/quire/page/column/line breaks in the display, but a display more like a versified Bible. The XML metadata does specify paragraph breaks, so that is probably what would be used to segment the text above the verse level (but lower than the chapter level). For instance, Mk 1.40-44 is a paragraph, like this (note use of the lunate sigma): 40 και ερχεται προϲ αυτον λεπροϲ παρακαλων αυτον και γονυπετων λεγων αυτω οτι εαν θεληϲ δυναϲε με καθαριϲαι 41 και ϲπλαγχνιϲθειϲ εκτιναϲ την χειρα αυτου ηψατο κ(αι) λεγει θελω καθαριϲθητι 42 και ευθυϲ απηλθεν απ αυτου η λεπρα και εκαθαριϲθη 43 και εμβριμηϲαμενοϲ αυτω ευθυϲ εξεβαλε αυτον 44 και λεγει αυτω ορα μηδενι ειπηϲ αλλα ϋπαγε ϲαυτον διξο τω ιερει και προϲενεγκε περι του καθαριϲμου ϲου α προϲεταξεν μωυϲηϲ ειϲ μαρτυριο αυτοιϲ Does that help?
Apparently there is no intention to make this equivalent to actually viewing the ms itself. In that case, I don't see that this would be of any particular value to me since I already have resources detailing virtually every reading of א.
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