Logos App Privacy Policy for Windows 8 RC

Hi all,

I am deeply concerned that the statistics collected are too private, and reveal usage habits I don't want to share. I have a problem with the parts underlined. I dont want to report these regardless of if they are 'anonymous'. They are my private usage habits.

Does anyone else agree?
is there a way to ensure this information is not reported to Logos?

Thanks

Ref: http://www.logos.com/about/privacyStatistics

reported include display resolution, amount of system memory,
version of operating system, which reports are run and on what
passages, which resources are opened and how often, user preferences,
content accessed and displayed, commonly-run searches, search speeds,
queries that failed to return hits, how often the program is run and at
what time of day, etc.

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Comments

JT (alabama24)

Does anyone else agree?

No, I'm not worried about it.

is there a way to ensure this information is not reported to Logos?

Download the software & resources… turn internet off & don't sync.

Luigi Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411294#Comment_411294

'turn internet off'

that is silly.

if you dont see it as a problem that is fine - but it is not good to mock on an important topic like privacy.
can i read your monthly bills and your emails and your sms messages? I wont tell anyone that they were yours when I talk to people about them - but I just think you should let me read them.

Lynden O. Williams

Logos uses this information to know what features are being used, what to improve, what to drop, which books to renew the lisence for etc. No use pumping resources into something that no one is using.

The hardware tells them how far then can push the envelope (my thinking) as it relates to user equipment. If only X% of users are using a particular operating system, then they will then decide whether or not to discontinue support for that operating system or not.

Wes Saad

Doesn't bother me in the least.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411298#Comment_411298

if you dont see it as a problem that is fine - but it is not good to mock on an important topic like privacy.

I wasn't trying to mock you... I just don't agree that it is an issue to me. You asked if anyone else had an issue with it, and I answered honestly. That's what you wanted, right? [:)] My answer was a literal, honest one. Wether the answer was "silly" I don't know, but it is the ONLY way to accommodate your desire for privacy.

Software companies use this kind of info for many reasons. I know that Logos uses some of this info for planning purposes. It is one of the best ways for them to know where to spend company resources. Netflix, for example, does the same thing. They know exactly which shows are being watched. This helps them to determine which shows to keep, which ones to dump, and guides for which resources to acquire.

can i read your monthly bills and your emails and your sms messages? I wont tell anyone that they were yours when I talk to people about them - but I just think you should let me read them.

Nope. But I don't care if Logos knows the things outlined above.

David Thomas

1) I am not concerned with Logos viewing how I use the software

2) Some users have expressed concern over backing up their personal notes and prayer lists to Logos servers. I can understand this, but I use evernote, dropbox and Google docs so I have a significant amount of personal data stored on servers that belong to other entities.

3) When I first read your idea in another post to "broadcasts my logos searches to other software" I immediately thought of the concerned users referenced in #2 and knew that there would be opposition to anything that opens a portal between one program and another.

4) I find it ironic that you as a programming student want access to use logos' code (as well as many other software vendors) for your personal project, but now seem to be concerned that logos wants to track how their own software is being used in order to improve it.

I am not trying to be judgmental, I only see what may be considered an inconsistency between the goals of privacy and openness.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411343#Comment_411343

I'm not concerned either, but I guess it's because I've used Logos for a long time (9 yrs). They have never given me a reason not to trust them, I regularly test the public betas, so I already help in working with the software. They are not using it for malicious reasons, or to spy on us. For example, Logos is discontinuing software compatibility with XP, why? Because they were able to know if a sufficient number of users had upgraded. By knowing which reports are not used much they know if they need to create something different. I also don't know that the info is stored by user (i.e. a database says Philana ran 10 BWS reports this week) I think the info is just added to a tally.

Tom Reynolds

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411349#Comment_411349

It could be a serious problem depending on who has access to the software and if it personally identifies you. For example Logos knows that you ran a search on biblical reasons for divorce just after your FB profile said you were meeting with the "Jones." It doesn't take too much imagination to know that the Jones are having marital difficulties and are looking into biblical reason why they might divorce. The more information that is out there and can be aggregated the more powerful and accurate profile that can be generated...

Wes Saad

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411354#Comment_411354

For example...

Part of that is a case of PEBKAC. Posting on Facebook that you are about to meet with a family? Even if you don't specify that it's for counseling, that's hardly wise. Either way, Facebook users don't have a way to peer into your Logos usage, logs or not.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411358#Comment_411358

Part of that is a case of PEBKAC

I had not heard that one before:

pebkac. problem exists between keyboard and chair.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411364#Comment_411364

This thread illustrates Jesus' teaching. If someone wants what you have, give it to them.

Obviously Logos wants what doesn't belong to them.

Done.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411364#Comment_411364

pebkac. problem exists between keyboard and chair.

I guess this is another version of PICNIC: Problem in chair, not in computer

Rick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411354#Comment_411354

and if it personally identifies you.

First, please let me say that in all fairness to the original post, I do think that there
should be an opt out feature for those who do not wish to participate.

Tom, I agree with you on this point. As with anything on the internet, if they try hard enough they could probably track you down through isp addresses and such but I see no reason for Logos tracking us down for using their software, unless it is obviously an illegal copy. Like others have said, I don't have a reason to not trust Logos with information, that I send anonymously, to measure current trends in how people are using their software.

In all fairness to the original post though, I do think that there should be an opt out feature for those who do not wish to participate.

There are many software companies that do this, even my car's GPS sends statistics (after it gives me a chance to activate an opt out option) to TomTom to see how I use its search features etc.

BriM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411392#Comment_411392

I do think that there should be an opt out feature for those who do not wish to participate

I agree that there should be an opt-out feature for those that don't want to participate.

I don't have a problem with the things that were listed in the original post as being collected, but one thing that does concern me is that the list starts off by saying the things collected "include ...", i.e. it isn't a comprehensive list of what Logos collects. If the list isn't comprehensive then it has no value because there could well be more worrisome things being collected that we haven't been told about.

So I would like to see a comprehensive list of data items collected plus an opt-opt. Ideally an opt-out by each item but a big switch opt-out would be acceptable.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411298#Comment_411298

'turn internet off'

that is silly.

Luigi, I noticed your low count of posts in forums and do not want to make assumptions about your familiarity with the program. Are you aware that Logos has an option to turn the internet off within the program to address your concerns?

I don't think Alabama was suggesting that you turn your router off, but that you disable this feature within Logos.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411407#Comment_411407

I don't think Alabama was suggesting that you turn your router off, but that you disable this feature within Logos.

Thanks for clarifying that for me David. [:)]

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411407#Comment_411407

I don't think Alabama was suggesting that you turn your router off, but that you disable this feature within Logos.

I don't know about Windows 8 per se; but (as the above screen shot shows) you can alter the "Send Feedback" to nothing. This will prevent the desktop app from sending feedback (the sort of data you are concerned about) back to Logos.

If you want to keep "Use Internet" set to "Yes", then set the "Send Feedback" setting to nothing instead of "All". This will allow for you to still receive application and resource updates, and synch material across machines, but without sending feedback.

Hope it helps.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411440#Comment_411440

I don't know about Windows 8 per se; but (as the above screen shot shows) you can alter the "Send Feedback" to nothing. This will prevent the desktop app from sending feedback (the sort of data you are concerned about) back to Logos.

That's easy. Thanks Rick. [:)]

Bob Pritchett

Thanks for posting your concerns; we'll be tweaking the language of our policies and the settings to control them in the coming months, and this feedback helps.

For what it's worth, we try to write the policy as widely as possible to make sure we don't accidentally overstep it. Our primary use is to improve the software and deliver functionality to you: we believe the cloud storage of settings is useful. If we know what searches fail we can improve the search engine. If we know where you left off reading we can open your book to that location when you open it on another device.

Our mobile apps (and eventually all of them) will soon go beyond storing "last read" position and use a heat-map / bar-graph to show you how much of a book you've read. (Like on a Kindle, where it shows roughly the percentage of the book read.)

Then we'll have access to aggregate stats so we can know things like "nobody reads this book, so let's take it out of collections and save money", or "everyone reads the 'canon' chapter of Intro to the NT, so we should get more content on that subject."

We have more than a million people reading with our desktop and mobile apps; we don't want to look at your data, we want to see it all aggregated into big-picture stats. (We have a new analytics team just for that; they process the raw stats into data cubes and write reports.) Of course there's always a risk that someone could look specifically at your data, but it's low risk (and, honestly, low motivation... it's not like we're storing bank account passwords!) and we'll be looking at ways for you to opt out or choose to only participate in specific features via anonymous contribution.

(And our software will do some "automatic" reading of your data: if you buy a Greek grammar, you may see Logos.com offer you another Greek grammar as a featured book in the future. We believe this targeted marketing is good for both of us. Hopefully we sell more, and you see ads for things you're interested in, instead of things you don't care about.)

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411440#Comment_411440

If you want to keep "Use Internet" set to "Yes", then set the "Send Feedback" setting to nothing instead of "All"

...or you set it to Anonymous and Logos will get a statistic data but not knowing it is you specifically. At least that's what I interpret as Anonymous option in the Send Feedback setup.

Luigi Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411343#Comment_411343

Hi. I liked quite alot of the posts here - some of them are so good that I do not need to reply back to them.

In reply to Davids:

Point 3: this is being discussed in the draft discussions. It is quite exciting to see how this can be managed. Most likely it will involve two or three methods:

1. opt in data collection setting (for statistics) If any participating Bible Product wants to collect this info. (Opt-In being the keyword)

2. broadcasting only to local computer bible programs. (sync message does not leave local compuer)

3. broadcasting only to local network bible programs. (sync message only acknowledged by correct PC/MAC/PHONE with bible programs running)

As I said, this is a protocol which makes use of a multicast message.

Point 4:

It is not really a personal project. It is a serious effort - which has the co-operative effort of multiple software bible software developers .
It is true that it started small - but it isn't 'my' work anymore - it is every ones.

Luigi Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411294#Comment_411294

Download the software & resources… turn internet off & don't sync.

hi alabama24

I just remembered to apologize for saying this is silly - since I thought you meant literally disconnect the internet connection from my computer not change a setting.

however I still protest over any 'opt-out' settings regarding sending information of anykind.

The installation should ask: Y|N

would you like to send usage data to improve the product,
and "Would you like to send error reporting data to improve the product.
would you like to synchronize your data to the Logos servers?

Otherwise all of these should be set to NO by default - and the user can choose to change them from the settings menu.

Kindly.

Luigi

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422537#Comment_422537

I just remembered to apologize for saying this is silly - since I thought you meant literally disconnect the internet connection from my computer not change a setting.

Not a problem. Glad we understand together now more clearly. [:)]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/422884#Comment_422884

Hadn't kept up with this thread. But I just read Bob's input on their soon-to-come changes to what they consider to be 'privacy'.

Just my 2 cents (and worth even less), but Logos is awful naive if they think well known users' study/use/notes patterns are of no significance. Lordy.

Now, I myself do fear them finding out about my curiousity as to why Grant couldn't figure out the Mississippi levels drop following the spring run-off (Grant's Canal).

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/411354#Comment_411354

." It doesn't take too much imagination to know that the Jones are having marital difficulties and are looking into biblical reason why they might divorce.

But you could be wrong. Last time I was asked about divorce was to obtain the best possible hospice care without leaving the surviving spouse. Civil divorce was no problem[:)]

Sean Cowan

I don't personally have a problem with Logos collecting usage statistics, however it is common practice to empower the user to make this decision rather than assume that it is okay and I think this should also be the case with Logos. If there isn't an option for it already, there should be an option for turning off/on whether Logos collects usage statistics.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423180#Comment_423180

Hi Sean

I don't personally have a problem with Logos collecting usage statistics, however it is common practice to empower the user to make this decision rather than assume that it is okay and I think this should also be the case with Logos. If there isn't an option for it already, there should be an option for turning off/on whether Logos collects usage statistics.

Does Rick's comment earlier in this thread (http://community.logos.com/forums/p/57770/411440.aspx#411440) address your concerns?

Graham

Sean Cowan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423185#Comment_423185

Yep - thanks Graham.