Logos 5 Impressions & Reviews

I was lucky enough to snag the leaked alpha a while back, so I've been playing with it a bit although I didn't have access to some new features until today. I have to say the interface is a work of beauty. Whitespace. Love it. Nice and open. Very consistent. All over, very polished.

It shows that Logos has been paying attention to users on the forums. I'm sure people will still find faults or disagree with certain decisions, but it's obvious that they have listened. A few examples that have been mentioned recently are timelines, community tags in the library for organization, the ability to share user generated documents, etc. Great stuff.

I'm know I'm forgetting stuff, but I'm at work and keep getting interrupted. That's just a few quick impressions. Would love to hear others' impressions.

Logos has done an amazing job.

Thank you for all the hard work on this.

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Comments

Jack Hairston

<Drool>

TCBlack

It is faster.

It has more databases.

It has some appearance differences from L4 but the overall look and feel is familiar.

There is a ton more to say I'm sure.

Big item: It will overwrite L4 if you're doing an in place upgrade.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412476#Comment_412476

Big item: It will overwrite L4 if you're doing an in place upgrade.

If you don't do an in-place upgrade, are you essentially left to re-download all resources (or try one of the L4 hacks to copy/move resources - assuming they would even work)? And do you know if it will sync L4 documents if you don't do an in-place upgrade?

Thanks,

Donnie

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412476#Comment_412476

A faster engine is what I am hoping for...

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412478#Comment_412478

If you don't do an in-place upgrade, are you essentially left to re-download all resources (or try one of the L4 hacks to copy/move resources - assuming they would even work)?

yes. If you want to save a download, copy the resources from an L4 install somewhere and then, starting offline as per the wiki instructions do a scan <path> command.

do you know if it will sync L4 documents if you don't do an in-place upgrade?

I have been syncing docs between L4 and the L5 beta.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412479#Comment_412479

A faster engine is what I am hoping for...

The display has been improved (re-written) and is faster.

George Somsel

I'm know I'm forgetting stuff, but I'm at work and keep getting interrupted. That's just a few quick impressions. Would love to hear others' impressions.

Don't let work interrupt your pleasure. [;)]

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412487#Comment_412487

They combined Biblical People, Places, and Things and added Events into something called Biblical Facts.

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412479#Comment_412479

Many things are faster.

Resources are tagged in new ways, for new types of searches.

Library organized better

Better ways to determine context of words

Tools more tightly integrated with each other, like various Bible facts

Many small improvements - like my favorite improvement to highlighting:

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412487#Comment_412487

I'm know I'm forgetting stuff, but I'm at work and keep getting interrupted. That's just a few quick impressions. Would love to hear others' impressions.

Don't let work interrupt your pleasure.

I have sinned today. I've spent more money than I should on upgrading to Diamond. And I'm yelling loud angry things at my phone every time it rings. [:$]

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412495#Comment_412495

Documents are better organized and we have a new bibliography document feature

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412495#Comment_412495

There have been improvements in the Document management area (L4 "file" menu)

EDIT: Sorry. Philana, you did that much better than I did[:)]

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412481#Comment_412481

If you want to save a download, copy the resources from an L4 install somewhere and then, starting offline as per the wiki instructions do a scan <path> command.

Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm aware of the "scan" command, but I've never had to use it. When you do that, does Logos move/copy the resources from that path location to their canonical location under the Logos install path? Or does that scanned path become the working location for the resources that were found there?

Donnie

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412512#Comment_412512

If you want to save a download, copy the resources from an L4 install somewhere and then, starting offline as per the wiki instructions do a scan <path> command.

Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm aware of the "scan" command, but I've never had to use it. When you do that, does Logos move/copy the resources from that path location to their canonical location under the Logos install path? Or does that scanned path become the working location for the resources that were found there?

Donnie

It will copy the resources to your new Logos folder to the proper place.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412512#Comment_412512

Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm aware of the "scan" command, but I've never had to use it. When you do that, does Logos move/copy the resources from that path location to their canonical location under the Logos install path? Or does that scanned path become the working location for the resources that were found there?

Good question. [;)] Logos will copy those files to it's own internal directory for storing the resources. So you can delete (or archive) the old directory after the successful scan, restart, and index.

Andy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412479#Comment_412479

A faster engine is what I am hoping for...

The speed and responsiveness of L5 is really noticeable. I don't think you will be disappointed [:D]

John Kight

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412530#Comment_412530

The indexing process seems to be faster as well.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412548#Comment_412548

I'm still pouring through my new resources. NA28 is there. Is that new or was that avail on Logos before? I don't remember seeing it.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412548#Comment_412548

Anyone who can comment specifically on the performance of the Mac version? (Or, better still, anyone who's tried it on both and can compare?)

Also, generally:

What are Notes like? Is there any cross reference functionality?
Do lectionaries work better?
What about user-created timelines and harmonies?

John Kight

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

NA28 is New

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

I have a video review of some of the new features ready to go, I am just waiting for the go-ahead from Logos. When it goes live on my blog, I will post a link here... :-)

NetworkGeek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412561#Comment_412561

I'm still pouring through my new resources. NA28 is there. Is that new or was that avail on Logos before? I don't remember seeing it.

NA28 is new! Biblical Languages, Platinum, Diamond, and Portfolio upgrades will get it.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412478#Comment_412478

Big item: It will overwrite L4 if you're doing an in place upgrade.

If you don't do an in-place upgrade, are you essentially left to re-download all resources (or try one of the L4 hacks to copy/move resources - assuming they would even work)? And do you know if it will sync L4 documents if you don't do an in-place upgrade?

Thanks,

Donnie

I believe this may need to be clarified a bit further. Unlike the jump from Libronix to L4, you will not be able to have both L4 and L5 on the same account.

But you wouldn't want to. While Libronix works in a totally different way than L4 (and requires a different 'work flow' to use), L5 is L4 with a ton of added UI, functionality and performance enhancements.

For the easiest and most seamless upgrade process, I recommend installing L5 over L4. I don't know what the official recommendation is going to be, but that's my personal recommendation.

One more note: If you have L4 pinned to your Win7 task bar, installing over L4 could create a Windows error, when the reference to the Logos4.exe is replaced with Logos.exe. Just ignore the error and fix the pinned item later. A similar error may occur if you have a Logos4 short cut assigned to a key, a user created shortcut, or in a Stardock (Dell Dock) type of sort-cut manager.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

Answering what I can here...

What are Notes like?

Driven by the new display in L5 I have seen less lag.

Is there any cross reference functionality?

Um. How do you mean?

What about user-created timelines and harmonies?

Timelines, no. HOWEVER the timeline database is massive and provides alternate dates based upon scholarship for items that are "argued" about.

Andy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

Anyone who can comment specifically on the performance of the Mac version?

I have been running L5 on a MBA (2011). The performance is noticeable sharper and more responsive that with L4. Clicking on menu options results in an immediate response. (The responsiveness of the layout tab would be the sole exception. Even this, in my view, falls within the range of acceptable performance.)

Searches are definitely faster and the passage guides load up more quickly. I have intentionally tried pushing L5 with ridiculous searches (e.g. 'Jesus' across all resources) and have been very please with the results.

Notes are also sharp and responsive. I have really hammered this feature and have been unable to reproduce the sometime disconcerting lag evident with L4.

I haven't yet tried L5 on the PC-side, but L5 on Mac easily matches, and I would say exceeds, the performance of L4 on the PC.

I haven't worked enough with the advance language tools and so cannot comment definitively in this area.

As a caveat, I should add that I never experience the extreme performance issues some Mac users reported with L4.

In summary, I am very, very impressed with L5.

[Edit: for completeness, I noticed some improvement with indexing times, but a complete reindex of 5,500 resources took around 5 hours. Let me know if you want me to run something specific (as a point of comparison) or post screen shots.]

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412572#Comment_412572

Unlike the jump from Libronix to L4, you will not be able to have both L4 and L5 on the same account.

But you wouldn't want to. While Libronix works in a totally different way than L4 (and requires a different 'work flow' to use), L5 is L4 with a ton of added UI, functionality and performance enhancements.

great point, Richard. I'm looking forward to continuing using all the database and search improvements. the only thing (which has been stated a few times.) is that L5 is not for XP, need to keep that in mind.

For the easiest and most seamless upgrade process, I recommend installing L5 over L4. I don't know what the official recommendation is going to be, but that's my personal recommendation.

that's what I did, and it's worked great for me.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412572#Comment_412572

For the easiest and most seamless upgrade process, I recommend installing L5 over L4. I don't know what the official recommendation is going to be, but that's my personal recommendation.

I'm fairly certain that when your L5 license is activated, it will automatically (?) overwrite L4 as an in place upgrade.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

Anyone who can comment specifically on the performance of the Mac version?

Many things are much faster in L5.

What are Notes like? Is there any cross reference functionality?

Notes are noticeably faster, in most cases. The new notes engine is not yet in place. They are still developing that feature. Unfortunately automatic Scripture linking is not yet implemented.

The reason I said that notes were faster in most cases: In huge note files (several hundred notes), there is a lag between typing and display. It varies from a few characters to two or three words.

Overall, it is a tremendous improvement. In L4 I resorted to using layouts with a minimum of linked panes, but in L5 I could not bog the app down with multiple linked commentaries and Bibles.

David Wilson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412579#Comment_412579

the only thing is that L5 is not for XP, need to keep that in mind.

Does this mean that if I upgrade to L5 for my desktop I will no longer be able to use L4 on my WinXP netbook ? [*-)]

LaRosa Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412583#Comment_412583

I'm fairly certain that when your L5 license is activated, it will automatically (?) overwrite L4 as an in place upgrade.

Yes, that's what I was told by the sales rep & I'm downloading resources right now.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412586#Comment_412586

the only thing is that L5 is not for XP, need to keep that in mind.

Does this mean that if I upgrade to L5 for my desktop I will no longer be able to use L4 on my WinXP netbook ?

Not at all. You will continue to be able to use L4 on your Xp notebook. They will "coexist" on different machines, or different user accounts on the same machine.

The L5 installer is smart enough to not attempt an install on XP.

Andy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412583#Comment_412583

I'm fairly certain that when your L5 license is activated, it will automatically (?) overwrite L4 as an in place upgrade.

This is my understanding. Indeed, I remember reading that this behaviour will effect multiple installations (i.e. if you upgrade, L5 will download and update across all installations).

[Edit: But not on systems with XP as per TC's post above]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412584#Comment_412584

Anyone who can comment specifically on the performance of the Mac version?

Replying to my own post to add another bit of information.

One thing that has the potential for confusion is in the directory path to the goodies (resources, indices, documents, etc). In the user's Library/Application Support folder, the next folder in line is still named "Logos 4". That could not be changed without… Well, I'm no programmer; just relating what I heard from Bradley.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412584#Comment_412584

Anyone who can comment specifically on the performance of the Mac version?

Many things are much faster in L5.

What are Notes like? Is there any cross reference functionality?

Notes are noticeably faster, in most cases. The new notes engine is not yet in place. They are still developing that feature. Unfortunately automatic Scripture linking is not yet implemented.

That is my assessment as well.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

What are Notes like? Is there any cross reference functionality?

The Notes are being rewritten and aren't done for this release. However, many features do show that Logos was listening to our complaints so I am "hopeful".

Do lectionaries work better?

I didn't see any changes in lectionaries - in general things that appear on the home page appear to be the same as in L4.

What about user-created timelines and harmonies?

Bob has assured me that user-generated harmonies are coming. I didn't ask about timelines, unfortunately.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412593#Comment_412593

Not at all. You will continue to be able to use L4 on your Xp notebook. They will "coexist" on different machines, or different user accounts on the same machine.

You can keep an L4 installation on any machine by turning off automatic updates and installing updates to 4.6 manually. Unlike with L3-L4, where features were missing for some time, with this upgrade probably only those on XP machines would want to do this. However you can keep an L4 installation operating on a separate user account on your computer or on a separate computer by turning automatic updates off in Program Settings.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412526#Comment_412526

Thanks for the prompt reply. I'm aware of the "scan" command, but I've never had to use it. When you do that, does Logos move/copy the resources from that path location to their canonical location under the Logos install path? Or does that scanned path become the working location for the resources that were found there?
Good question. Logos will copy those files to it's own internal directory for storing the resources. So you can delete (or archive) the old directory after the successful scan, restart, and index.

If you want a fresh install of L5 you should use Method 3

you will Scan an exiting resource folder; and
your documents will be sync'd from Logos' server
but use an L5 installation link

Scan will copy resources from the nominated folder to L5 and then index them. The nominated folder is unaffected.

NOTE: You can still expect a download of about 1.5 - 1.9 GB for L5 as it will update roughly 30 resources (incl. Reverse Interlinear bibles and some Greek/Hebrew bibles) and databases + download new L5 databases.

This estimate is based on my existing L4 Silver library. So there will be additional new resource downloads depending on your Upgrade.

Donnie Hale

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412682#Comment_412682

NOTE: You can still expect a download of about 1.5 - 1.9 GB for L5 as it will update roughly 30 resources (incl. Reverse Interlinear bibles and some Greek/Hebrew bibles) and databases + download new L5 databases.

Thanks for these details, Dave. Big help.

Donnie

Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412501#Comment_412501

Got my Logos 5 Verbum Capstone Edition! I'll post a full review later!

EmileB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412577#Comment_412577

Oh, man. I don't know whether to be excited... or sick! I finally was able to carve out a block of time and have just spent the last week (in a personal retreat) pouring through my Camp Logos and Camp Logos 2 for L4Mac DVDS (I've had them for a while now but never had the opportunity to use them). I have spent days tagging every one of my 5,000 plus resources and more days re-setting up my collections, priorities, etc. I FINALLY feel like I have learned how L4 works... not that I don't have TONS to learn... and now I come back home, turn on my computer, and see L5 has been introduced!!! I sure hope that all my effort hasn't been in vain! Can anyone give me any encouragement??

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412692#Comment_412692

Can anyone give me any encouragement??

Lots of it!

L5 is not the rewrite that L4 was. You will still use your collections, notes, layouts, etc. There are some new databases to enjoy, and a couple of new functions, including clause searching. There is now a sermon starter guide and a topical study guide, which function just like the ones you already know but with different content. All-in-all what you know in L4 migrates pretty directly to L5.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412684#Comment_412684

NOTE: You can still expect a download of about 1.5 - 1.9 GB for L5 as it will update roughly 30 resources (incl. Reverse Interlinear bibles and some Greek/Hebrew bibles) and databases + download new L5 databases.

Thanks for these details, Dave. Big help.

That was based on my existing L4 Silver library. So there will be additional new resource downloads depending on your Upgrade.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412692#Comment_412692

I FINALLY feel like I have learned how L4 works... not that I don't have TONS to learn... and now I come back home, turn on my computer, and see L5 has been introduced!!! I sure hope that all my effort hasn't been in vain! Can anyone give me any encouragement??

You should be okay, there are a few new features, and some speed improvements, but the bulk of what you learned will be easily implemented in 5. [Y]

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412716#Comment_412716

Just to clarify, I have every book in my library tagged and these will come over automatically from the cloud when I do an automatic L 5 update as well as all my collections, My PG, My EG etc?

LaRosa Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412723#Comment_412723

yes, that is correct John

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412724#Comment_412724

Thanks La Rosa!

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412562#Comment_412562

I just spoke with Santiago, and he indicated that the only resources that L5 will download on an automatic update are the new resources, not the ones currently on my computer. Is this correct?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412738#Comment_412738

I just spoke with Santiago, and he indicated that the only resources that L5 will download on an automatic update are the new resources, not the ones currently on my computer. Is this correct?

New and updated resources will download. For example, interlinear Bibles have been updated for L5 so you'll get those too. But if it hasn't changed it won't be downloaded again.

Lawrence Rafferty

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412738#Comment_412738

I just spoke with Santiago, and he indicated that the only resources that L5 will download on an automatic update are the new resources, not the ones currently on my computer. Is this correct?

Many resources have been updated for Logos 5, so those updates will download too. Resources in your Logos 4 library that have not changed will not need to be redownloaded (or reindexed).

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/412636#Comment_412636

Thanks for the Mac reviews. Feel free to keep them coming, especially if you're on 10.6 and an older Mac.

The new notes engine is not yet in place. They are still developing that feature. Unfortunately automatic Scripture linking is not yet implemented.

So, if I understand you and others correctly, it's the exact same Notes feature that we've already got, only a bit faster? Very disappointing that the top item on Uservoice is still treated like a stepchild. I do hope they intend to fix that soon, and not in 5.5 (or L6-7-8...).

In huge note files (several hundred notes)

"Several hundred notes" shouldn't be considered a "huge" note file in a Bible Study software.

Is there any cross reference functionality?
Um. How do you mean?

I meant the ability to attach the same note to several references, and the ability to link verse A to verse B and verse B to verse A in one step. But I think Jack and MJ has already given the answer, unfortunately.

I didn't see any changes in lectionaries

So I still can't read the footnotes and the cross references from the lectionary, and I still can't attach a note to the reference? Just to name the two most daily annoyances. And no liturgical date datatype?

It certainly doesn't seem like the things you and I most care about have been a priority... [:'(]

Though any performance enhancements are certainly welcome. And not a single crash reported yet, on either platform! I do hope that's a good sign.