Upgrading
I just checked out my personalized upgrade page and I can honestly say, I'm not too happy. $400 to upgrade to Gold which I already own! I'd love to have the new features of L5 but not at that cost and to be honest the books I'd get don't justify the price for me personally. Is it possible to get just an engine upgrade with the new features? 
Comments
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Where was this information? Surely it should be on my personalised offers page!
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Logos is not currently offering a minimal crossgrade like they did with the launch of L4. However, you can "downgrade" your base packages and, for example pay for the new resources in Silver or Bronze which would be cheaper than the Gold upgrade price. Of course you will not lose any of your L4 Gold package.
Prov. 15:23
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Kevin Becker said:
you can "downgrade" your base packages
ARE THEY KIDDING ME??? I have used this software and bragged about for years. I have spent a small fortune on my library and this is how I get treated, a downgrade!!! Man alive am I cross!
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Mark Stevens said:Kevin Becker said:
you can "downgrade" your base packages
ARE THEY KIDDING ME??? I have used this software and bragged about for years. I have spent a small fortune on my library and this is how I get treated, a downgrade!!! Man alive am I cross!
Did you read the part where you do not lose any of the resources you already have. Calm down Logos will offer a crossgrade but their servers can't take all that downloading at once.
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Yes I did but why should I have to downgrade to get a cross grade. i don't want new books and I wish to keep my Gold status. I have spent a lot of money and praised this program to people endlessly. And where is that info? All I got was a upgrade page that didn't explain any of this! I should not have to pay for a downgrade.
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Mark Stevens said:
Yes I did but why should I have to downgrade to get a cross grade. i don't want new books and I wish to keep my Gold status. I have spent a lot of money and praised this program to people endlessly. And where is that info? All I got was a upgrade page that didn't explain any of this! I should not have to pay for a downgrade.
I don't think he was telling you that you *had to*, just that if you wanted to use the new features now you could always downgrade, but if you want to be patient keep using Logos 4 until the cross-grade is made available.
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I was told that the cross-grade won't be happening..
I upgraded to the platinum package for a few more bucks. I'm excited.
This would be great with my new studies I'm starting in January at Moody Institute! 0 -
Mark Stevens said:
Yes I did but why should I have to downgrade to get a cross grade. i don't want new books and I wish to keep my Gold status. I have spent a lot of money and praised this program to people endlessly. And where is that info? All I got was a upgrade page that didn't explain any of this! I should not have to pay for a downgrade.
I dunno mark, it may not help to look at the actual name of a package (many have changed, others have been retained) just see what you gain with each package and how it fits with your budget. you're not losing a thing.
I can't afford the new Portfolio. Or Diamond. Or Platinum. or maybe less. But I love my library that I have . . .
On second thought, I'm wondering if I missed what you are saying: are you saying . . . if i have, please help me understtand.
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Thanks Dan and thanks everyone. I just feel incredibly let down by Logos. Gold was a milestone for me. I know I get to keep stuff but I cannot understand why I should have to downgrade to upgrade. It is an insult to the thousands I have spent building my library. Why can't I pay for the upgrade like I did with L4?
I love this software and I have bragged about for years. A little shocked that there is no info about any of this on my product upgrade page. All I see is the $400 plus it will cost me to keep Gold.
I expected better from Logos.
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I am with you. This is a huge let down by the company.
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Mark Stevens said:
I love this software and I have bragged about for years. A little shocked that there is no info about any of this on my product upgrade page. All I see is the $400 plus it will cost me to keep Gold.
You can look at the other options (downgrade and upgrade) on the Upgrade page. Click the other 'book' icons for Silver or Bronze or Diamond, etc.
I wouldn't downgrade below Gold because you will not get all the features. (Silver gives all but one,Bible Sense Lexicon, so that might be possible.)
I sympathize. I don't like to lose status either and frankly the dollar difference wouldn't be that great if I dropped down to Gold from Platinum. Logos really changed the contents of the libraries and that has created the pricing we are seeing.
I hope it works out for you and others with a similar shocked look on their faces.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Logos shouldn't have used the same name for packages with different contents, IMO, but it's not a downgrade just because your new package doesn't have the same name as the one before. You haven't lost anything in functionality. You've only gained.
I would wait for a minimal crossgrade package to become available personally, to see what features can be picked up without having to buy books. If I bought Gold, I would still gain some resources that I want (over my current L4 Platinum), plus I would have full feature functionality. Those resources alone aren't worth to me the $385 it would cost though. Silver is a more likely target at these prices--$98 for most all functionality. But waiting for a minimal crossgrade is still a good possibility.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
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Okay... what gives Logos! I have spent $17,408.30 to build my library over the past several years. I have Portfolio Edition 4 now. And to upgrade to Logos 5 Portfolio which does not have a single added book that I want will cost me $1,524.49. NO THANKS!
I am sad.. hurt... and very disappointed. It seems this companies true heart of commerce is showing.
Feeling trapped and betrayed,
Jim
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I am with both of you. I'm okay with the idea of a crossgrade, and I hope it comes soon, but this is information that would have been nice to know about SOMEWHERE on the site outside of the forums.
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Mark Smith said:Mark Stevens said:
I love this software and I have bragged about for years. A little shocked that there is no info about any of this on my product upgrade page. All I see is the $400 plus it will cost me to keep Gold.
Mark Smith said:I sympathize. I don't like to lose status either
I appreciate you saying that, Mark Smith , and I guess there is part of me that is that way as well. Mark Stevens, I felt that way with Microsoft when I had spent money to get the big kahoona (whatever it was called, with Publisher, etc) but when they rolled out with 2010, they changed it completely, not really offering "upgrades."
As for Logos, I haven't been able to buy what I really have wanted for about 3 or so years, I have missed out on some really good commentary specials (like Hermeneia) and have had to pass on journals and other things I'd use. It really sucks (I mean that) to not be able to afford what you want.
I honor that frustration, and share it.
I hold that in tension with the fact that I want Logos to grow and keep adding cool features, and I know that costs them a lot to do, and they need to recoup it somehow. It's the nature of our world. (I'm speaking probably more to me than to you.)
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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James Brown said:
Okay... what gives Logos! I have spent $17,408.30 to build my library over the past several years. I have Portfolio Edition 4 now. And to upgrade to Logos 5 Portfolio which does not have a single added book that I want will cost me $1,524.49. NO THANKS!
I am sad.. hurt... and very disappointed. It seems this companies true heart of commerce is showing.
Feeling trapped and betrayed,
The web site is so unusable right now that I can't figure out the lowest possible upgrade / crossgrade price for me. But so far, I agree with you 100%.
I would recommend that you carefully review the "New to you" list, as many of us have found items in our list which we in fact already own. It sounds like it would be even more painful for you than it is for me. But I'm going to push very hard to prove the point that their price is calculated quite incorrectly.
Donnie
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Paul Miller said:
this is information that would have been nice to know about SOMEWHERE on the site outside of the forums.
Paul, what info are you referring to specifically--crossgrading, or what packages cost and what ones give you full functionality?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Logos is alienating their happy customers and turning them into unhappy ones. I will no longer be able to continue to recommend Logos to friends and family.
I too have spent over a $1000 just in the last year building my library and now they are telling me I no longer own a legitimate base package. Hundreds of dollars to just get back to my original base package and get the updated engine. They should charge a fee of no more than $75 for the new engine and grandfather in the previous owners of the package to receive upgrades to the newer version of their package.
Logos is abusing their recent success at the cost of their loyal customers. Proverbs has a few thoughts they should consider.
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PTL!!! I totally agree with the "feeling trapped and betrayed," this sounds more like Microsoft, a secular company, than Logos, supposedly one of the top Christian companies!!! What will all this $$$ get them if the LORD returns quickly!?! I just pray they remember WHO they're working for and not what!!!
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There is no secret folks. Logos has resources like none other, and has prices like none other. Personally, I feel it's not right to charge what they do. Honestly. But man, it's the best. It's got no class and it's clunky, the UI is really not designed - it's sorta hobbled together.
But is there anything as resourceful? ..as multi-platform?
I like it, but I sure am constantly frustrated by LOTS of public domain works for LOTS of money. (I primarily read 1700s and past...)Will upgrade when I can afford it. Looking for the free engine link in the meantime!
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David Ogg said:
Logos is alienating their happy customers and turning them into unhappy ones. I will no longer be able to continue to recommend Logos to friends and family.
I too have spent over a $1000 just in the last year building my library and now they are telling me I no longer own a legitimate base package. Hundreds of dollars to just get back to my original base package and get the updated engine. They should charge a fee of no more than $75 for the new engine and grandfather in the previous owners of the package to receive upgrades to the newer version of their package.
Logos is abusing their recent success at the cost of their loyal customers. Proverbs has a few thoughts they should consider.
David, there will eventually be a path that is lower cost that allows you to use all your resources while enjoying the new functionality of Logos 5. That will be the minimal crossgrade. It sounds like that would be a great fit for you at this point, but unfortunately it is not yet available, and we don't have a price.
I guess I am over the base package thing. I do have Platinum but doubt I will ever upgrade it beyond where it is now. Neither Diamond nor Portfolio tempt me.
However I have over 6,000 Logos resources and I buy those that interest me at this point.
Upgrading packages has never been free. There is always new content, and Logos must charge for that. We can be upset over what they put in and take out (I've voiced that at times) but we can choose whether to 'keep' our status at each upgrade opportunity. As I said, I am a bit beyond the status thing at this point, so that doesn't matter. I will upgrade to L5 Platinum if the new resources I can receive are compelling enough to pay the price Logos asks. If not, I'll wait for the minimal crossgrade.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Donnie Hale said:
many of us have found items in our list which we in fact already own.
i'd be interested in those findings. was it posted on another thread?
Donnie Hale said:I have Portfolio Edition 4 now. And to upgrade to Logos 5 Portfolio which does not have a single added book that I want will cost me $1,524.49. NO THANKS!
I think I am getting that--wanting to maintain an 'official level' (like Portfolio--and I am also a fellow portfolio), and I certainly like to upgrade and spend hundreds or a thousand plus dollars on books I really want, not just padding. We do sort of have that built in expectation, I think. Many of us, anyway, might say so. But I found myself looking at Gold, and thinking . . . "okay, I still keep all my Portfolio stuff from L4 and this (Gold) is what I need to take advantage of all the functions--and really, that's not so bad." in the end, i felt some annoyance at not being officially Portfolio, but ultimately it really didn't seem to matter that much to me--I still gained. just make gold a little higher in value than the old Portfolio.
kind of a Spinal Tap approach: "ours go to eleven!"
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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David Ogg said:
I too have spent over a $1000 just in the last year building my library and now they are telling me I no longer own a legitimate base package. Hundreds of dollars to just get back to my original base package and get the updated engine.
Welcome to the forums David. If you do not upgrade you will not lose anything. You will continue to have access to all of our resources on Win XP or Win7
Second, the engine will eventually be free, after the launching period this month.
Third, Logos usually charge a minimum fee to get the new databases.
This is the way they did with the launch of L4, and what they are doing with L5. Will post the link by Logos staff later.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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I am an original languages guy and I don't see a crossgrade option. This company is committing suicide.
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Paul Miller said:
I am with both of you. I'm okay with the idea of a crossgrade, and I hope it comes soon, but this is information that would have been nice to know about SOMEWHERE on the site outside of the forums.
But then people would wait for the cheaper crossgrade instead of spending more money now, thinking it was the only option available. It's all marketing.
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I too have spent a large sum of money and have spend a lot of time on PBB's to make Logos 4 my complete Bible Study software. I really don't get this.
An upgrade should use the resources I already own and just charge me a cost for the new functionality. This is really a bad idea and this will alienate many loyal customers.
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Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:
I am an original languages guy and I don't see a crossgrade option. This company is committing suicide.
It's probably been said a dozen times already today, but I'll say it again: the crossgrade is coming, it's not available yet, and we don't know the price.
Help links: WIKI; Logos 6 FAQ. (Phil. 2:14, NIV)
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The whole release seems very... vague. For someone who doesn't follow the forums for details very often, this upgrade feels as though it is coming out of nowhere. Also, I am hearing people talking about crossgrading here but there doesn't seem to be any place to find out about it from the website itself.
Like others, I've spent a TON already on Logos, but I'm not one to really care if it's called the 'Platinum' or called the 'Filthy Rags' package, but it is confusing that there is no real page hyping up ALL the benefits to upgrading to L5 with the same package title. The video doesn't do enough.
(And a plug for wanted content: if we're going to include the timeline of C.S. Lewis' birth and death in a photo of the new Timeline feature, I'd LOVE to see his works show up here.)
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David, what was it about Logos that made you a happy customer?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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You're going to have to keep saying it, because this was the best kept secret and the worst launch of a new version release I have ever seen and I work in IT and have seen quite a few.
It's just wrong to make your reinvest for all the same resources over again in order to get the new functionality in the latest version. I know of no other software company that does this.
So the upgrade or crossgrade cannot come fast enough. That should be the upgrade and the cost, period.
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Marshall T Barth Jr said:
PTL!!! I totally agree with the "feeling trapped and betrayed," this sounds more like Microsoft, a secular company, than Logos, supposedly one of the top Christian companies!!! What will all this $$ get them if the LORD returns quickly!?! I just pray they remember WHO they're working for and not what!!!
I hesitate to respond because I don't think it will help, but I know Logos spent hundreds of thousands of dollars developing L5, if not in the millions. The only way for that to happen is for them to make money somewhere. Maybe you can figure out a better place for them to make it than on selling resources. I can't. As I said, this probably won't settle your mind, but developers have to be paid and customer (free) support has to be paid for, servers have to be paid for an maintained, and on and on. The basic engine is still free, yet it cost millions by now to develop. I am OK with what they do, though I, too, wish it were sometimes less expensive. In the end we can vote with our wallets.
I am not trying to start a discussion that has been played out many times before without both sides agreeing. There is just more to this than what you've implied. I won't say any more.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Dan DeVilder said:
i'd be interested in those findings. was it posted on another thread?
I think this thread had a couple of mentions, and another thread named "Resource Calculator Bug" has some specifics. Dan Pritchett just replied in the thread.
Donnie
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Gary Pajkos said:
It's just wrong to make your reinvest for all the same resources over again in order to get the new functionality in the latest version.
That's not what's happening. When you "upgrade" to the same package in the new version, the cost is for the new resources in that package. I have Version 4 Platinum. The restructured Platinum for version 5 adds a lot of resources I don't have. The cost covers the new datasets for V5 and all the new resources in the Platinum package (or whatever package I "upgrade" to).
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It is going to be tough to get to sleep tonight. The Logos solution to every problem is the same--more books. A large portion of these forums has been committed to solving problems. We have gotten to 4.6SR1425 or something like that being used as bug-swatters for the company. One week ago I did not think I would be able to even use the Mac version throughout the weekend. Now in 7 days time I have the added frustration of paying for the same resources....the third time. I want to judiciously add reference resources when I need them, not when Logos wants to sell them. Many of us seem to angry and frustrated as well as getting poorer by the minute. How am I supposed to explain this to my wife or any other sane individual?
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Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:
I am an original languages guy and I don't see a crossgrade option. This company is committing suicide.
I think they are rebranding Original Languages, and it will be available through their academic program.
are you able to wait for the minimal crossgrade?
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Gary Pajkos said:
It's just wrong to make your reinvest for all the same resources over again in order to get the new functionality in the latest version. I know of no other software company that does this.
Gary, unless I misunderstand you, you will not pay for a single resource again. If you look at your personal upgrade price it is for the new items that are contained in the same base package you presently own (be sure that is what you are looking at). For me that isn't too many new ones and those are discounted as well as they probably ever will be. I only pay to obtain those plus the new databases in L5.
The new databases will be available in a package deal called the crossgrade at some point. The L4 crossgrade was $69. No pricing has been mentioned for the new crossgrade.
You can continue to run L4 at no additional cost, or can upgrade to L5 without the new databases for free. You do not ever have to re-buy a resource.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Every other company of the "big three" will be multi-platform in 2013. This is just not well thought out upgrade path.
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Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:
Now in 7 days time I have the added frustration of paying for the same resources....the third time.
No Robert. That is wrong. You will not pay for the same resource twice. Please clarify what you mean when you say that. I hope it is just a misunderstanding.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I have to wait for a minimal cross-grade because I simply can't afford to be extorted at this time[8o|]
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I get this, but the confusion others are experiencing points to a marketing problem associated with keeping the same base package designations. Might have been better to change the names so there was no point of reference or comparison. Customer confusion is indicative of a marketing failure. I should know since I spent 17 years in marketing before going into ministry (caused my fair share of "confusion"). [:D]
Chris Roberts said:Gary Pajkos said:It's just wrong to make your reinvest for all the same resources over again in order to get the new functionality in the latest version.
That's not what's happening. When you "upgrade" to the same package in the new version, the cost is for the new resources in that package. I have Version 4 Platinum. The restructured Platinum for version 5 adds a lot of resources I don't have. The cost covers the new datasets for V5 and all the new resources in the Platinum package (or whatever package I "upgrade" to).
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All I want to do is upgrade the basic software engine and have the new functionality work with my existing resources. I am not now interested in purchasing additional books.
If that's the case then I stand corrected and apologize.
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Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:
extorted
Please explain, Robert. That is a loaded term. How are you being extorted in this? You still have everything you ever had, can run L4 as you always have and can run L5 without their new databases for free. Where is the extortion?
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I believe logos made a smart move, this gives me time to break it to my wife before christmas
if I decide to upgrade. The major upgrade cost going from portfolio to portfolio 2.0 comes from a bunch of commentaries, I just don't see the need for more commentaries. I was hoping for more of a personal package upgrade. Something like a portfolio with a focus on theological or doctrinal studies. Many people have portfolios with diversity (which is needed), but many people are not dumping money is stocks right now, but investing in precious metals. I was hoping not to invest more in commentaries that I do not use, but shift the focus of my library to doctrinal studies. If this could be done I would be more apt. to upgrade.0 -
Gary Pajkos said:
All I want to do is upgrade the basic software engine and have the new functionality work with my existing resources. I am not now interested in purchasing additional books.
If that's the case then I stand corrected and apologize.
To take full advantage of the new engine, you will need either a base package or a minimal cross grade when it is released.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
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some will get alienated right to a different product
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Chris Roberts said:
But then people would wait for the cheaper crossgrade instead of spending more money now, thinking it was the only option available. It's all marketing.
If they think that's the way it would work, all I can say is, "Beware the law of unintended consequences." The more people who get the new software and databases, irrespective of new resources / packages, the more people who can do all the indirect marketing. Just the few people who do have it have commented on the improved speed and the new features, not the wonderful new resources they were forced to purchase to get the new software.
Instead the comments on the release are more negative than positive and aren't about the software but about the business practices and the process.
Donnie
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Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:
One week ago I did not think I would be able to even use the Mac version throughout the weekend.
i think i have heard L5 runs better on Mac.
Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:I have the added frustration of paying for the same resources
not sure I understand what you mean? paying for the same resources, that is.
Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:I want to judiciously add reference resources when I need them,
I'm with you on that.
perhaps the forthcoming minimal crossgrade will boost your performance and ease the pocketbook.
Robert C. Beckman Jr. said:How am I supposed to explain this to my wife
If you figure out a good solution, let me know. I could use some pointers . . . [:$][:)]
I like Apples. Especially Honeycrisp.
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Gary Pajkos said:
All I want to do is upgrade the basic software engine and have the new functionality work with my existing resources. I am not now interested in purchasing additional books.
You can do that by downloading the new L5 engine for free. I don't think Logos has published the link for this yet, but someone figured it out and posted it in a forum posting tonight. If you look around I think you can find it. This will give you exactly what you are looking for at no cost to you. Later, if you want the new databases after you find out more about what they do the crossgrade would give you that once it is made available.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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Tomorrow would be the appropriate time.
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