Logos 5 Upgrade

I personally think that we should not express our anxiety or anger about the announcement of Logos 5.

WHY?

First of all, as true followers of Jesus Christ who is patient, gracious, and merciful,
we should tell our disappointed heart with more generous and polite expression rather than what we are doing right now. I can totally understand that we can tell them what we feel, but if this forums is filled with impolite complaints and meaningless criticisms, what is the difference between us and unbelievers?

Second, indeed, I believe that the Logos has invested a lot of efforts and money for developing Logos 5 software.
Computer programming and wages for developers may be not cheaper than what we think. Think about Microsoft Office or Acrobat software. We do not ask them to give us free upgrade when they make a new version. So we have no right to ask them to give us new upgrade version freely. If we want to have new features, we should buy it unless they graciously provide it to us freely.

HOWEVER

Why do so many people get angry at LOGOS 5?

1. LOGOS should announce their developing Logos 5 at least couple of months ago.
WHY?
(1) so that we can wait for this new software. Many people already bought Logos 4 last month, even last weekend.
Logos does not give them a chance to think about it. Last night I search their website for looking new monthly free book, but I couldn't find any announcement about Logos 5.

(2) Some of us might purchase some resources that is a part of Logos 5 resources. If we know the Logos 5 developing and what they would include in the new databases, we would not buy that resources, because if we upgrade Logos 4 to 5, the resources will be included in the upgrading.

Because of these facts, many customers got angry because they feel that LOGOS does not care about them.
It seems like If some of us bought Logos 4 yesterday, it does not matter with them.
They seem not to care of some customers who bought resources which would be included in their Logos 5 resources. It is enough to feel that the Logos does not care about customers in this sense.

2. LOGOS should provide SOFTWARE UPGRADE ONLY VERSION for Former users today.
WHY?
(1) Why do Microsoft or Adobe (famous software company) provide UPGRADE ONLY software at the same time with the full software? Because they care for their former customers.
They never say, "Hey, now is the time for new customers, you should wait for a while, and I do not know when we will provide software for you. But if you really want to have this new version, you can buy it now."

(2) Think about Office software (Microsoft Word or Adobe Acrobat). They also have different level of software such as Pro or Standard... However, the difference between their Pro and Standard is acceptable. Standard users can be satisfied with their level. They do not disappoint not being Pro users because their differences are acceptable.
LOGOS 5 is NOT. "STARTER" gives us just one new feature, "BRONZE" 5 out of 8, "SILVER" 7.
Unless we purchase "SILVER" we cannot say that we can use LOGOS 5 new features.
In this sense, Logos forces the new customers to buy the "Silver" or higher level of product.
Yes! They provide "Sold separately" for each new feature, but it will cost over than $90.
In this sense, many people get angry because they feel that LOGOS does not care for them.

3. LOGOS 4 still needs to be developed
Logos 4 has a huge problem of indexing time and loading time.
I read some of admiration about Logos 5 in its faster and better indexing and loading.
Logos 4 users may think that Logos may give up to fix the problems of Logos 4 because they just make the better and faster software. Many Logos 4 users have an interest with Logos 5 because not only they love new features but also they expect that the Logos solves this problem with this upgrading.

In Logos website, I usually stop by the webpage what they will add to Logos 4 (new features).
I cannot find that web page anymore.

I satisfy my Office 2010 software, even though 2013 is tempting.
I also satisfy Windows 7, even though 8 is tempting. Because Office 2010, Windows 7 has no problem with me.

However, Logos 4 has a huge problem still.
Because Logos 5 is not available who want to upgrade software only today, many customers may think that Logos now shift their main focus to the Logos 5 and may forget the problem of Logos 4.

Personally I have no problem with Logos 4 if they promise to solve that problems faithfully.

But, if they do the same thing (not announced, not provide) at Logos 6, 7, 8, 9...
It is sure that many customers will think that Logos really does not care about the customers.

I want to ask to each worker of Logos company.
"Is there anyone of you who purchased Logos 4 since you know that there would be Logos 5 today?"
"What are you going to do if your friend, family, or pastor wanted to buy Logos 4 yesterday?"

If I were a worker of Logos company, I would not buy Logos 4 if I know the Logos 5 was coming soon.
If I were a worker of Logos company, I definitely tell my pastor or friends not to buy Logos 4 but to wait until today.

Because I take care of them. I respect them, I love them.

Logos is not a company that pursue the materialistic profits only. Logos takes care of pastors, bible students, and Christians.
If you are really care for them, show them you really care.

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Comments

Paul

I really agree with Justin almost 100% even though Logos has been working hard in its business.

But I expect that Logos will add its 'upgrade version only' to previous version users because I already have a big volume of library.

jonB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413332#Comment_413332

yeah. what's the deal? i have over 3 grand in logos resources. but i have to spend another $650 to get all the new features? that's plain wrong. i don't need new resources. i'd be happy to spend another 100 or so bucks to get some of the new features. but 650? you have got to be out of your finkger lickin mind. so disappointing. it's like logos didn't do any customer surveys or research before they put out this new pricing system.

and...i don't appreciate the logos sales rep being dishonest with me when i asked him some basic questions. all that he did was upsell me and leave out information (that i later found online). isn't this a BIBLE software company??? very disappointing stuff from a company that (until today) had never been anything but superb. it's a real bummer...

Whyndell Grizzard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413335#Comment_413335

Oh boy here we go.

Kolen Cheung

Agree.

To me, the practical issue is money. First the price for me to upgrade the platinum package is too much. I think Logos should consider to add more packages like the concept of diamond package, and to keep the addition of resources to the same package, the platinum one for me, to be minimal. Logos should distinguish the upgrade of the software and upgrade of the contents. E.g. If I want to upgrade the software, I upgrade from Logos 4 to 5. If I want to upgrade the contents, I go from platinum to diamond. And if Logos really think the Logos 5 platinum corresponds to the Logos 4 platinum, then what we are paying should really be the software upgrade price, not a content upgrade price. (I didn't check it, but is the logos 4 platinum sold at around the same price as the Logos 5 platinum? If yes, why charge us so much to upgrade? If no, why Logos would consider them to be corresponding? After all, it is the price point (to me) determine if it is platinum or gold or silver, if you want to offer something pricer (with richer contents) than they should give a new name like diamond)

The same issue seen from another angle is time: if you really want that much money from me to upgrade the same platinum from 4 to 5, Logos should give us more time to know beforehand for us to save money. Don't they know they are charging big money? By big I mean the upgrade price is quite substantial comparing to the price I paid for the platinum itself. (And this also worry me so much, are Logos going to release a new version as frequently and than charge us that premium? If so it would be wise for me to stop upgrading. And hence we go back to the issue that Logos should make it clearer what their future plan is.)

Kolen Cheung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413335#Comment_413335

yeah. what's the deal? i have over 3 grand in logos resources. but i have to spend another $650 to get all the new features? that's plain wrong. i don't need new resources. i'd be happy to spend another 100 or so bucks to get some of the new features. but 650? you have got to be out of your finkger lickin mind. so disappointing. it's like logos didn't do any customer surveys or research before they put out this new pricing system.

and...i don't appreciate the logos sales rep being dishonest with me when i asked him some basic questions. all that he did was upsell me and leave out information (that i later found online). isn't this a BIBLE software company??? very disappointing stuff from a company that (until today) had never been anything but superb. it's a real bummer...

Can you be more specific on how the sales rep being dishonest?

Pavel Škoda

Excellently summarised Justn Cho! Hoping everyone from LOGOS read it (and write some explanation(s) here).

EDIT: I bought LOGOS 4 on 8/2012 [:^)] If I knew LOGOS 5 is going to be rolled out I would wait till now....

Kolen Cheung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413338#Comment_413338

By the way, this situation reminds me something like the recent event from Apple that did angry quite a few customers. Their products are great, as well as Logos'. But I think the problem is how they sell it and how they show the care to the old customers.

and similar to Apple, I think Logos was doing a great job on marketing. Just this time they screw it a bit and I really hope that they can improve it.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413338#Comment_413338

To me, the practical issue is money. First the price for me to upgrade the platinum package is too much.

It is really unfortunate that Logos chose to reuse that old package names in this new version. It might help to think of them as completely separate entireties. (ie Old Platinum and New Platinum)

You have the Old Platinum - your resources are still there they will not be lost. So what to you want?

If the resources added in the New Platinum are of no interest to you then there is no point in upgrading to that package.

If you want all but one of the new databases and are happy with basically what you have in your library at present then an upgrade to 'New Gold' would probably be the most sensible (economical) move. The only thing you would change doing this is the name of your collection - what's in a name?

Fabrice

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413360#Comment_413360

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413364#Comment_413364

Hi Fabrice

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

Sorry - I don't understand

As far as I can see a new customer would pay $1,827.46 to get Platinum 5. They don't get it for free

Graham

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413364#Comment_413364

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

A new customer would have to pay the full price for Logos 5 Platinum ( and they would not have the resources that are in L4 Platinum but not in L5 which existing customers will keep).

The amount that an existing customer will have to pay for the New Platinum will vary depending on the resources in their library. If the resources in the New Platinum are not of interest to an existing customer they can change to a package with a different name that better suits their needs. Always remembering that that the New Gold is required for all but one of the new database sets.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413364#Comment_413364

My problem is then why do new costumers would get the Logos 5 Platinum 'for free' (as they don't upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5) and old costumer would have to pay about 1100 € to get the Platinum 5 (with other resources that I don't want)? That's totally illogical, or I missed a point somewhere?

I concur withabove that it's unfortunate that Logos choose to retain (most of) the package names. There is much different content in the packages. New Customers wil be able to buy L5-Platinum for USD 2,150 instead of "for free" (at least that's what I see when I sign out of the site and put Platinum into the shopping cart).

If you have to pay 1,100 you are making a steep jump in ressources you don't own currently - users that come from a different library post upgrade prices of a couple hundred dollars. For example, L5-Platinum has Lange's Commentary, Black's NT Commentary, Lenski, the Wesleyan Bible Study Commentaries etc. There are 111 resources/resource bundles in L5 Platinum that weren't in L4 Platinum. If you are coming from a lower level package in L4, of course there's more.

But since you say, these are resources you don't want, I scratch my head why you would upgrade to L5 Platinum? Maybe L5 Gold or Silver is the package better suited to your needs. Remember, you won't lose your current books or functionality, you only pay for what you get extra.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413399#Comment_413399

I think we need to step back and think about this issue. I agree it may have been a mistake to use the same package names that were used in L4. But an appropriate analogy may be my old 1968 Mustang.

Up until about ten years ago my wife and I had a 1968 Mustang. It orginally came with nothing but an AM radio and did not have A/C, power locks, power seats, etc. As Ford upgraded and chnaged the design and features of the Mustang should I have expected or been entitled to free upgrades to the new features or technology? Of course not.

Logos has spent money developing and producing new resources and technology for Bible study. They have generously offered discounts to existing users that take prior investments in their products into consideration. But if you want the new products you will have to pay something. If you want the new features you will have to pay something. That's how they can recoup the cost of what they have done and have cash flow to do more in the future. If not that, where will the money come from?

Now I'm going to go compare the features in my 1999 Ford truck with the new 2013's to see if I can talk Ford into giving me a free upgrade[;)]

Tesfaye Haile

I was very much confused when a friend of mine informed me about the Logos 5. I have a Portofolio Logs 4 library wiht 3,302 books. Now, when I negotiated to make the upgrade they gave me a price tag for Logos Gold library 572 dollars. My Logos 5 Portofolio has 2563 books. Is this an upgrading or a downgrading? It is very hard for me to understand how this computing is working. Can some one expalin to me how I can be charged 572.00 dollars for a Logos 5 with 1,993 books ? I am great benficiary of the product of Logos. They are doing great work and I belieave they must make profit and pay thier workers. Thye are not receving donationtions nor are they a non profit organization. And also I do not have any complaint with the coustomer service of Logos. Thye are excellent. They are very prompt and are doing thier best to help. My concern however is how does their upgrading methods arranged? Are there some things that I have missed? I am really desperate enough to be informed, how the pricing and upgrading methods are arranged. Please comment and give me practical advice? Thanks

Tesfaye

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413419#Comment_413419

The problem is all in a name.

I was very much confused when a friend of mine informed me about the Logos 5. I have a Platinum Logs 4 library wiht 3,302 books.

You still have Platinum Logos 4 Library and alway will have. You will loose non of these books.

So what do you want to add to your functionality?

You can add the New Silver - with most of the new databases.

You can add the New Gold with all but one of the new databases.

You can add the Platinum with all the new resources therein.

When you are given a price to add the new collections Logos take into consideration your existing resources, work out the cost of the extra resources and (at this point in time) apply a discount.

Fred Chapman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413419#Comment_413419

I was very much confused when a friend of mine informed me about the Logos 5. I have a Paltinum Logs 4 library wiht 3,302 books. Now, when I negotiated to make the upgrade they gave me a price tag for Logos Gold library 572 dollars. Logos 5 Portofolio has 2563 books. Is this an upgrading or a downgrading? It is very hard for me to understand how this computing is working. Can some one expalin to me how I can be charged 572.00 dollars for a Logos 5 with 1,993 books ? I am great benficiary of the product of Logos. They are doing great work and I belieave they must make profit and pay thier workers. Thye are not receving donationtions nor are they a non profit organization. And also I do not have any complaint with the coustomer service of Logos. Thye are excellent. They are very pormpt and are doing thier best to help. My concern is how can their upgrading methods arranged? Are there some things that I have missed? I am really desperate enough to be informed how the pricing and upgrading methods are arranged. Please commnet and give me practical advice? Thanks

Tesfaye

I cannot comment on your individual circumstance; but my understanding is the upgrades are based on what Logos has called a "dynamic" pricing model. That means they take into account the individual titles and packages you already own and discount your upgrade price accordingly. The idea being you are not paying for the same resource twice. The upgrade will be comensurate with the new resources you receive. You should not lose any existing resources.

GaoLu

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413419#Comment_413419

I'm no body important and don't have any inside knowledge about Logos. But here is my view:

1. Be patient a few days. You are not out anything at all. Nothing is lost. Things only get better from here. Just wait and see.

2. You don't have to spend anything unless you decide you want more resources. Sure there are new L5 versions of the base package. The packages might even go by the same name as some old packages, but have a little different content. You can buy it if you like it--or not. You won't re-purchase anything you already own. And you don't have to buy anything at all anytime soon, if you are happy with what you have. I suppose you could start what ever package you have and "upgrade" if you want to call it that to the L5 starter package and get L% that way for very little money. That may not include all the new databases, but do you have to have all that too--for free? Personally I'd like a lot of Logos resources for free, but...

3. You can't really downgrade (I suppose you could sell off your resources). If you buy another package with a name "lower" than the "highest" you have already purchased, you aren't "downgrading," you are just getting a great deal on anything in that other package that you want and don't have. And you only pay for the new stuff. New packages may have something you want that you don't have at a great price without having to buy everything in the new package with the same name as what you already have. What a great deal! Look around on the upgrade page at your options. Check those upgrade prices. You can't lose, you can only gain. Example: If you have Platinum and want to add a few good deals from from Gold, there may only be a few books you don't already have--you can get them pretty cheap. You only buy what you don't already have and at a base package discount price! I know this is repetitious, but it is really simple and easy to understand--I think. Someone correct me if I'm off plumb here.

4. Cross-grading is coming along soon. Busy as things are, overloaded as Logos has been with this immensely successful upgrade, I think we can understand if it takes a few days or weeks to meet every wish any Logos user might have. But I guess Logos will do just that as well as anyone could expect them to do. And you can hardly blame Logos for developing a marketing plan that is financially successful for them, even if that means a roll-out of options over a few weeks which is less than ideally convenient for those of us who don't want to spend anything and still get upgraded.

5. I have L5 and I am immensely happy with it. It is everything I hoped L4 would be.

God bless you all.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413454#Comment_413454

[Y]

I can fully subscribe to your very wise words!

Post more often, if you can!

Bokman Han

I guess Logos should let Logos 4 users upgrade for a price about 50 bucks or more but not more 100.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413476#Comment_413476

I guess Logos should let Logos 4 users upgrade for a price about 50 bucks or more but not more 100.

You may well find that you can.

TCBlack

I personally think that we should not express our anxiety or anger about the announcement of Logos 5.

I agree. But we are small creatures after all and fear, uncertainty, and doubt often take over. But I am disappointed that grace and hope are not the first responses we have towards one another. *sigh*

LOGOS should announce their developing Logos 5 at least couple of months ago.

Well, they can't really. They have to leave the lights on and pay their workers, and eat sandwiches. Those things cost money. Bob Pritchett talked about Logos' razor thin profit margin here. HOWEVER Logos has always had a generous RETURN policy.

Someone who bought Scholars Gold last week got one set of resources, someone buying Gold L5 today is getting different resources (with some overlap). That difference means that even "upgrading" (I don't like the word) is going to cost because of all the different/new resources and databases.

LOGOS should provide SOFTWARE UPGRADE ONLY VERSION for Former users today.

Bob Pritchett explained the future engine download here.

Think about Office software (Microsoft Word or Adobe Acrobat). They also have different level of software such as Pro or Standard... However, the difference between their Pro and Standard is acceptable. Standard users can be satisfied with their level. They do not disappoint not being Pro users because their differences are acceptable.

They are only acceptable because you don't want the pro features. I don't need Access database and hence I don't want it. But If I wanted Excel, I would get the package that contained it (the lower packages did not use to - don't know if they do today.)

3. LOGOS 4 still needs to be developed

And it is still being developed! There are future releases being planned right now!

many customers may think that Logos now shift their main focus to the Logos 5 and may forget the problem of Logos 4.

I've been using Logos for years now and I can guarantee they won't just drop L4. Look for L4 to be supported for a good long while.

I know this whole process is a surprise for a number of people. All I can urge at this point is two things.

1. Ask questions and read the answers.

2. Expect Logos to keep their promises, they will, or they'll make it right. I've seen this happen over and over again.

Tim Chesonis

I just called Logos, and asked if there was an upgrade from 4 to 5, and if it was free or what the cost would be. He politely told me that "at this time their is no cross reference upgrade". You could tell he obviously felt very uncomfortable telling me that in order to "upgrade" during the Christmas season, I would have to purchase the entire package . . . . . . all over again (at a 15% discount)., . . . . . or I could wait until they offer a "Logos 5 features only" upgrade that will probably come well after Christmas.

Does the upgrade from Logos 4 to Logos 5 "features only" justify payment for the upgrade? Absolutely. Will I wait to upgrade to Logos 5? Absolutely.

Think of all the missed sales that they won't make on upgrades before Christmas.

Very disappointing. Very, very disappointing.

I hope they learn something from this "marketing strategy".

Logos, to make it very clear . . . . . rolling Logos 5 out this way makes your loyal customer base feel like you have slapped us in the face. Doesn't loyalty count for anything? A 15% discount is another slap. Charge us what you charged us when we upgraded from Logos 3 to Logos 4, or even a little more if you want. No other Software company (that I know of), requires one to purchase the entire product again in order to "upgrade". How long do you think such a software company would last? Even Apple learned . . . . by offering their Mountain lion UPGRADE for significantly less, (I believe it used to be $129, and is no $29 for the upgrade).

Signed - Disappointed.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413538#Comment_413538

Charge us what you charged us when we upgraded from Logos 3 to Logos 4, or even a little more if you want. No other Software company (that I know of), requires one to purchase the entire product again in order to "upgrade".

Tim,

You are not buying the entire product again, you already own the books you already own - and always will.

The upgrade prices for packages is based upon resources you do not yet own and the new databases. You can see this on the upgrade page at logos.com/upgrade. Click the "New to you" button on that page. Also please read where Dan Pritchett explained the calculator.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413538#Comment_413538

Tim

I am sure that Logos will get back to you when they read this thread - because it flies in the face of everything that they promise and are indeed promising again and again on this forum as we type.

You will never need to purchase your package again.

What you have you have and it will not be taken away.

If you choose to add a new package at this time in order to get the new features of L5 then every resource in your library will be discounted from the additional package ensuring that you will only have to pay for new resources that you do not own.

I imagine that, if you go to the list of new packages on the web site and select either Silver (or Gold for access to one additional database) you will find that the price of the addition is not to great.

It might help others to get a handle on the situation if you were to let us know what you have and what you are adding and the proposed extra cost for the options. If this is not sensitive data of course.

Chris Linebarger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413563#Comment_413563

Bottom line is this. Loyal L4 should be given the opportunity to upgrade to L5 at a minimal cost (let's say anywhere from $25-$100). Why? Because we are loyal, we've spent a lot of money, and in L4 (Mac user) we were given a product that is bloated and extremely slow; too slow for what we paid. We should be taken care of before new users. That's good business. There is no doubt that we are all thankful for the hard work of Logos. But this is a business and this business needs to take care of their loyal, paying customers.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413621#Comment_413621

Bottom line is this. Loyal L4 should be given the opportunity to upgrade to L5 at a minimal cost (let's say anywhere from $25-$100). Why? Because we are loyal, we've spent a lot of money, and in L4 (Mac user) we were given a product that is bloated and extremely slow; too slow for what we paid. We should be taken care of before new users. That's good business. There is no doubt that we are all thankful for the hard work of Logos. But this is a business and this business needs to take care of their loyal, paying customers.

Which you will when they release the crossgrade. This has been stated repeatedly on the forums. Logos servers cannot handle current upgrades as it is. So they are processing those users who choose to do a upgrade. When the launch period is over, and the servers no longer taxed by huge resource downloads. Those who want the new features but not new resources can purchase a minimal crossgrade, just like they could for Logos 4.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413476#Comment_413476

I just want all of the new features, not all of the new resources, but I have to buy larger base packages just to get all of the new features. As someone who has spent quite a bit of money at Logos this is disappointing at best....

Chris Linebarger

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413625#Comment_413625

Ok. My point still stands. We go last. And, I should not have to read through forums to figure this out. This should be stated openly and easily on the front page of their website. Again, we are thankful for the product, but recognize bad business when we see it.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413631#Comment_413631

I just want all of the new features, not all of the new resources, but I have to buy larger base packages just to get all of the new features. As someone who has spent quite a bit of money at Logos this is disappointing at best....

You will be able to purchase a crossgrade after the product launch. The only thing Logos is doing is delaying the crossgrade. Given the taxed servers from massive upgrade downloads, is probably why. You will be able to purchase the new features...just not during the product launch.

David Salazar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413621#Comment_413621

Can't remember but the minimal cross over or at most to stay with the basic Scholar's NAME was $127 when I went from L3 to L4.

There were so many things wrong, things that were going to come out that took a long time, some I think still didn't get down (apparently they are still going to be developing L4) and now in the future there will be a charge to go to L5 when L4 wasn't even a truly finished product. Doing service updates is one thing, but L4 always needed major updates. 4.6 really is what L4 should have been to start out with then give it it's life span and then bring out L5

Similarly like Sermon File-Addin, they sold it for near end L3 and promised that it would come out in L4. In the end for all practical sense it never came out in L4 (a few week in beta version, not sure if I came out a week or two in stable version) and now there is L5. Also it seems that Sermon File-Addin is now FREE for anyone with a base package. Now I admit that Logos can offer it free in another version but come on, don't charge for it and then not have it in L4 and then say it's free for all base packages when those who bought it at 50 barely got to use it (depending on when purchased also)

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413631#Comment_413631

I just want all of the new features, not all of the new resources, but I have to buy larger base packages just to get all of the new features. As someone who has spent quite a bit of money at Logos this is disappointing at best...

David, please read what has been said over and again here.

Free engine - sometime in the future

Lower cost crossgrade with just the data sets and what is needed to use all the new L5 features - coming.

So don't buy an upgrade if the resources you'd get aren't what you want. Sit tight. You can use L5 sometime soon.

I know Logos has created confusion and misunderstanding, and many feel they should get the new software as early as anyone else, but here you can learn things are not as totally bad as you think.

Be sure to read the FAQ.

Philana Crouch

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413648#Comment_413648

Can't remember but the minimal cross over or at most to stay with the basic Scholar's NAME was $127 when I went from L3 to L4.

No that was a minimal upgrade...you could have gotten just the minimal crossgrade with just what was needed for the new features. It was under $100 ($89 I think). If you just want the software engine, without the new features that required Logos employees who are knowledgeable in biblical languages to manual tag the entire Bible (for the new clause search Logos 5 knows that when you search subject:Jesus you also want anyplace He is referred to using a pronoun and not just His name). Since this cost money to pay the employees they cannot give this new stuff free. After the initial product the engine will be available for free, and the minimal crossgrade will be available for purchase.

As to the sermon file, some paid, some got it free during a promotion. New users paid for it in the price of their upgrade to L4. It was brought back in L4.6a in Personal Books with syntax enhancements to the Personal Book tool to allow for the building of indexes based on speaker, title, passage ect. No offense, but with any software or tech release people will barely get to use something before it might be offered free with upgrades. That's the nature of technology, it changes, and can do so suddenly.

So you can currently use the sermon file in Logos 4.6a which is still available.

John Parker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413487#Comment_413487

that sounds reasonable to me too.

Ken Hicks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413642#Comment_413642

Wouldn't this have worked better in reverse?

Rather than push out massive package updates with GB's of data, they could have offered the cross-grade to existing customers for a fee (I would pay up to $150) in advance of the revised base package offerings. Without any metrics (and this is a big assumption), it seems like that would have had less of a server load than the current approach. The goal with this tactic (not used in a negative sense) was to emphasize base package upgrades since it seems natural that cross-grades would have cut into those sales substantially. I have no problem with that. Logos is a business and should be allowed to make money in an ethical manner. I do have concerns about 'server capacity" as a reason for the delayed cross-grade offering.

Just my 2 cents... and that's exactly what it's worth (or less given current exchange rates." [:D]

You will be able to purchase a crossgrade after the product launch. The only thing Logos is doing is delaying the crossgrade. Given the taxed servers from massive upgrade downloads, is probably why. You will be able to purchase the new features...just not during the product launch.

Tesfaye Haile

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413563#Comment_413563

There are two things that I see. One is a psychological issue. The other is a pragmatic one. When a person, who owns a Portfolio, is given a choice to upgrade his or her library to Logos 5 Portfolio level the price can become a big problem. For the sake of saving money the person can go to a lower level and abandon the status of having "Portfolio"[:(]. The number of books this person has can be more than Level 5 Portfolio, and yet his level is named Logs 5 Gold. This is not a good commercial method? Is it? Can it be? The effect of this is more of emotional than value. This can cause a problem of communication with the logos sales representatives. What is the value of labeling the products? Their grading has a commercial value. It is true for some products that the higher you go, you not only get more resources but more features as well. It is at the same time weird for a person to have more books than the Portfolio, and yet for the sake of upgrading takes the lower label name, to save money and at the same time gets the new Logos 5 features. What benefit is Logos is gaining when they keep the Logs 4 names for the base packages of Logos 5? Is it not helpful for costumers, for the sake of enhancing easy communication, to add new levels or add few books or at least give a separate price for the new feature and give choices for customers to decide which ones to get? In my case for instance, I had a Logos 4 Portfolio with a more collection than the base price of the Level 5 Portfolio. But to save money and get the upgrade the chance I have is to go to lower level. For me to maintain the Portfolio level is costly. I knew that Logos is not charging me for the already purchased books that I have. I am uneasy to get a lower level even though I get additional resources. Having said this I do not want to make this a big problem because it does not affect the benefits I get from the Library. But Logos must at the same time consider the emotional side of doing business. I believe Logos will consider this and come up with what some solutions to this problem. Logs must flourish and must be successful. They have done a terrific job. We need to commend them for that. At the same time they need to see ower concern as well.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413792#Comment_413792

Tesfaye,

I agree that it was not the greatest idea to keep the same names for drastically different packages.

Ken Hicks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413792#Comment_413792

[Y] I don't want my current disappointment with their marketing to cloud the fact that I appreciate Logos and use it on a daily basis.

They have done a terrific job. We need to commend them for that. At the same time they need to see ower concern as well.

JT (alabama24)

Still on the Potters Wheel.

+1 [:)]

jonB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413339#Comment_413339

yeah. i have the scholars silver library from logos 4. to upgrade to the new silver library is about $250. to upgrade to the gold is $650. i asked him about the silver library. he told me that silver doesn't have any of the new features of logos 5 and it's not worth it unless you get the gold library. when i asked him for specifics, he dodged my questions and kept telling me how awesome the gold package was. and he kept saying, "but we can put you on a payment plan so it's not a big deal." when i looked up the differences between the two base packages, the gold has 2 or 3 more features than the silver, but the silver still has most of the new features. he was making it sound like the silver package was just logos 4 with a new face but if i wanted the real logos 5, i had to get the gold. i wouldn't say the guy lied to me but he definitely mislead me in order to sell me a package that was $400 more expensive.

Kolen Cheung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414189#Comment_414189

Another problem I see is this: I don't exactly know what Logos 5 is.

may be this is only my problem, but I can only find a video and a short passage from the Logos blog to see what's Logos 5.

but I really need to know thoroughly what new features it is giving me. For example, one feature from the video mentioned about the words from the same root. I want to know more about this. If this feature is what I think it is then it is a deal maker, and I want to know which is the minimum package I can get this feature.

So can someone give me a reference that can help me to know Logos 5 more? Thanks.

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414299#Comment_414299

Hi Kolen

Have you watched the video on the Logos.com Home page?

Kolen Cheung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/413360#Comment_413360

To me, the practical issue is money. First the price for me to upgrade the platinum package is too much.

It is really unfortunate that Logos chose to reuse that old package names in this new version. It might help to think of them as completely separate entireties. (ie Old Platinum and New Platinum)

You have the Old Platinum - your resources are still there they will not be lost. So what to you want?

If the resources added in the New Platinum are of no interest to you then there is no point in upgrading to that package.

If you want all but one of the new databases and are happy with basically what you have in your library at present then an upgrade to 'New Gold' would probably be the most sensible (economical) move. The only thing you would change doing this is the name of your collection - what's in a name?

Of course I wouldn't be naively thinking that I should buy a name. Platinum and gold sounds nothing to me.

but even if I want all the features, which is gold, costs me 4xx. And platinum costs me 5xx. The difference of 4xx and 5xx is not huge but 4xx itself is huge. So after all it is still very expensive to get all the new features.

You know, at the moment I buy Logos 4, I was planning to upgrade to Logos 5 wherever it is available, and I know that I have to pay. But I was expecting 1xx. I think logos might have change the contents included in the same named package too much (sorry I didn't compare it thoroughly so I don't know exactly what is missing and what's added), so that the upgrade cost becomes too much.

The point is this, this upgrade price surprises me too much, and the time surprises me too, so I didn't got the money to upgrade. Do you see this? I am not saying Logos can't get money for the resources what they are worth but I am saying they should do a better marketing strategy to help getting my money. I am not expecting it that much, and that soon. So how could I prepare that amount of money for it?

i remember from the Logos 3 days they release a couple of Logos 4 beta first to let people expecting it. I might remember it wrongly though. But if it is right, why not do it this time?

To put it even more simply, help me to persuade my wife to spend that much money to get all the new features. You know, I need to get her approval, as every good husband does.

Kolen Cheung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414303#Comment_414303

Hi Kolen

Have you watched the video on the Logos.com Home page?

Yes, but I have a poor Internet connection, so I watched the videos in 5 pieces, loading it 5 or more times.

well may be Logos expects its users all get great Internet... But at that moment I really wish it was not a video but a text.

and, the video is not specific enough, one can only get a vague idea. I saw that demoed a feature about the search on the words from the same root (cognate) but it is so brief so I don't know exactly what's that and how it's performing. Again this is a deal maker for me. If it turns out as useful as I imagined it too be, I would spend whatever necessary for me to get it.

so any more specific introduction to Logos 5?

thanks.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414324#Comment_414324

But I was expecting 1xx.

That is the root of the problem, that is the normal range one would expect from an upgrade. There is no debate that the content is worth 4xx or 5xx (probably much more!!), but this is just too large of a jump for most people to pay for an "upgrade". Logos should have changed the content of the packages much more conservatively so these large price increases would not have been necessary.

Kent Hendricks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414338#Comment_414338

Hi Kolen

Have you watched the video on the Logos.com Home page?

Yes, but I have a poor Internet connection, so I watched the videos in 5 pieces, loading it 5 or more times.

well may be Logos expects its users all get great Internet... But at that moment I really wish it was not a video but a text.

and, the video is not specific enough, one can only get a vague idea. I saw that demoed a feature about the search on the words from the same root (cognate) but it is so brief so I don't know exactly what's that and how it's performing. Again this is a deal maker for me. If it turns out as useful as I imagined it too be, I would spend whatever necessary for me to get it.

so any more specific introduction to Logos 5?

thanks.

You may want to check out the main features page: http://www.logos.com/features

From there, you can learn more about each new feature. The pages are detailed, and have lots of screenshots. Hope this helps.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414324#Comment_414324

To put it even more simply, help me to persuade my wife to spend that much money to get all the new features. You know, I need to get her approval, as every good husband does.

Smart man. [:)]

The point is this, this upgrade price surprises me too much

Just for clarification: It doesn't matter what base package you currently own… you can update to ANY base package (even the least expensive one). You will keep your current resources and add to them the new contents of the new package.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414344#Comment_414344

Additional thoughts, this is really too bad. I still believe that Logos is the best overall bible software out there, but moves like this dampen people's support of the product. I was a real Logos Fan Boy from 1.6 up until 4.0. Then the botched 4.0 launch really threw cold water on my enthusiasm. I can't believe the same thing is happening again! This was so unnecessary.

Gordon E. Kay

There is a huge user base who have been with Logos over many years and have spent over $4,000 in books. Today seems like a anti-Christmas theme.

We should have the and I will use the word, "RIGHT" to get an upgrade on Version 5, without buying additional items. I don't kow about other people but I have been unemployed and the economy is not doing well.

So Bellingham has come up with an idea to have their loyal followers to pay more $Money$. Seems like the greed factor to me.

Tim Hogan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414365#Comment_414365

On the upgrade page why is the 5 circled around it shaded out even though you are looking at all in, say, the portfolio upgrade page?

Some have a little person icon shaded out as well and I don't own them, does it mean that it doesn't currently come with this.

When I figure on everything, it seems like a win win situation, but wondering about this.

Kolen Cheung

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/414347#Comment_414347

Hi Kolen

Have you watched the video on the Logos.com Home page?

Yes, but I have a poor Internet connection, so I watched the videos in 5 pieces, loading it 5 or more times.

well may be Logos expects its users all get great Internet... But at that moment I really wish it was not a video but a text.

and, the video is not specific enough, one can only get a vague idea. I saw that demoed a feature about the search on the words from the same root (cognate) but it is so brief so I don't know exactly what's that and how it's performing. Again this is a deal maker for me. If it turns out as useful as I imagined it too be, I would spend whatever necessary for me to get it.

so any more specific introduction to Logos 5?

thanks.

You may want to check out the main features page: http://www.logos.com/features

From there, you can learn more about each new feature. The pages are detailed, and have lots of screenshots. Hope this helps.

Thanks. I don't know if it's only me or not, I can't get that link before. Whenever I click learn more, it only gives me a video. If this is not an isolated issue, may be Logos need to make it easier to discover this.

And the single feature interests me is this: "unearth root words and lemma". But from the description, I didn't know much about it,

And also "crunch words by numbers". It sounds related to the cognates as well but no details on it.

so one very crucial feature for me is this, am I able to:

Do a search on a certain cognate group and display all the results of occurance on that root in the range interested.

And an easy way to sort out the different lemma from the same cognate in the search.

May be the others won't know how important this is but one of the elder I knew spend big money developing his own software to solely do it. I use it and its great but if logos integrates it then it is much more faster. Currently if I am doing this I need to turn on an old windows machine (I'm using Mac but that software work best on old windows like windows 98 or XP) and on my Mac I run logos and sync everything manually (studying the same word, passage on both platform) which is too slow.