Font change

After updating yesterday, I was surprised to find that you changed the font. I much preferred the older font and wish that you had left an option to keep the other. It is harder for me to read now and I may choose a different electronic bible as my study bible. Why change a good thhing?

Ssc

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Thomas Ball

I'm sorry you do not like the decision to change the English font. What about it is more difficult to read?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420151#Comment_420151

I'd prefer an option to use the old font too.

What about it is more difficult to read?

That's pretty hard to quantify. One just knows which fonts are more comfortable.

Thomas Ball

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420156#Comment_420156

I'd prefer an option to use the old font too.

What about it is more difficult to read?

That's pretty hard to quantify. One just knows which fonts are more comfortable.

I was wondering if she (or you) could think of an adjective that could be used to describe the problem. Is it blurry, or too small, etc.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420212#Comment_420212

I'd prefer an option to use the old font too.

What about it is more difficult to read?

That's pretty hard to quantify. One just knows which fonts are more comfortable.

I was wondering if she (or you) could think of an adjective that could be used to describe the problem. Is it blurry, or too small, etc.

Nothing like that. It's the shape of the letters. The characters in the new font are taller and narrower with more vertical lines. It can be a personal thing as some people in the iOS beta forums have expressed that they thought the new font was more readable, while others were saying that they would like the the old font back. Hopefully Susan will express her thoughts, too.

All I'm asking for is a choice. The desktop application kept the old font in L5 when the new one was added. Hopefully the iOS app can too.

Jonathan Pitts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420227#Comment_420227

I think Todd has it when he says taller and narrower. I find my eye does not flow across it as easily as the old one. In typography parlance, the new font is very ledgible but not very readable (for hours at a time).

If it is possible, a choice would be ideal. I expect some people (not me) would like a sans serif font.

Jonathan Pitts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420909#Comment_420909

Typographers, of course, always check their spelling. Legible is the word, but on my iPad I couldn't edit my previous post.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420915#Comment_420915

on my iPad I couldn't edit my previous post.

OFF TOPIC: Jonathan – you can edit posts, but it is a bit tricky. When you need to edit something, try the following:

Dismiss the keyboard.
Place the cursor as close to the edit point as possible
Delete the text and retype

For some reason, the ability to edit is lost until you follow these steps. Anytime you need to move the cursor, this will be required.

Jonathan Pitts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420977#Comment_420977

I couldn't even get the More menu to come up in order to choose edit.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420993#Comment_420993

I couldn't even get the More menu to come up in order to choose edit.

It wasn't working for me the last time I tried on the iPad, either.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420993#Comment_420993

I couldn't even get the More menu to come up in order to choose edit.

Ahh. I understand now. I was describing how to edit a post BEFORE it was submitted. [:)]

Kevin Byford (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420227#Comment_420227

I'd prefer an option to use the old font too.

What about it is more difficult to read?

That's pretty hard to quantify. One just knows which fonts are more comfortable.

I was wondering if she (or you) could think of an adjective that could be used to describe the problem. Is it blurry, or too small, etc.

Nothing like that. It's the shape of the letters. The characters in the new font are taller and narrower with more vertical lines. It can be a personal thing as some people in the iOS beta forums have expressed that they thought the new font was more readable, while others were saying that they would like the the old font back. Hopefully Susan will express her thoughts, too.

All I'm asking for is a choice. The desktop application kept the old font in L5 when the new one was added. Hopefully the iOS app can too.

Hi Todd,

Obviously font choice is very subjective which is why there are so many thousands available (well, not in Logos on iOS!). I've expressed my fair share of complaints about the new font but I admittedly like very dense text formats like the Cambridge Pitt Minion style (my favorite Bible in NASB). The new font isn't like that compared to the old, but I've gotten used to it more. The new font looks amazing on Windows Logos but less so on Mac - always room for improvement.

I have talked repeatedly about font topics with the development department and at some point the previous font choice might be added. It's an odd position to be in - if the new font were the "old" font and we switched to the other, there would also be complaints. As always, your opinion is valued and thanks for letting us know.

Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420151#Comment_420151

I'm sorry you do not like the decision to change the English font. What about it is more difficult to read?

The Logos5 font looks like every character is bold. The width of every stroke is the same. There is not a big enough difference between regular and italic. The space between lines is too great. Overall, it has a less professional look to it for all of the above reasons.

It is different from most fonts you would find in a book or magazine or newspaper—things you normally read that require some amount of time. It's the kind of font you would use for a sign, not for reading.

Oops, I'm talking about the font in Logos5, not the iPad. I don't like the new Logos5 font at all. I switched fonts immediately.

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423705#Comment_423705

Oops, I'm talking about the font in Logos5, not the iPad. I don't like the new Logos5 font at all.

I believe it's the same font.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423788#Comment_423788

Oops, I'm talking about the font in Logos5, not the iPad. I don't like the new Logos5 font at all.

I believe it's the same font.

You mean the new iPad typeface is the same as the new L5 one… right?

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423830#Comment_423830

Oops, I'm talking about the font in Logos5, not the iPad. I don't like the new Logos5 font at all.

I believe it's the same font.

You mean the new iPad typeface is the same as the new L5 one… right?

Yes. That is my meaning--meaning that is what I mean.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423910#Comment_423910

[:)]

Kevin Byford (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/423705#Comment_423705

The space between lines is too great.

Hi Dan,

On Logos 5, you can change the spacing between lines in Program Settings under the Text Display section.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424601#Comment_424601

Just to give opinion from the opposite side. I like the new font on both Logos 5 PC and iPad. Every time I open the Bible, I have to appreciate the good choice of the font. And yes, I use it for longer reading. But I understand I might be an exception to the rule.

Chris Rosebrough

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420151#Comment_420151

The font that has been decided for us is not easy to read at all. I prefer a simple times font and this new font, which I have no choice but to suffer with, is a complete distraction. Please give me my old font back. I don't like software developers making these decisions for me.!

Trevor Paul Gibson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420212#Comment_420212

My eyes cannot 'adapt' to the new font. My eyesight is not perfect and I have had to reduce the brightness on my Ipad screen and even with that I find it a strain. Please give me the option to return to the old font!

Chad Moore

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420151#Comment_420151

I agree this font is very hard to read, I changed it immediately back on my desktop app to the L4 font and was quite disappointed to learn I could not do the same on the iPad app. The curves of the font the spacing of the letters are just not conducive to reading for hours and hours upon end which is how I study. I now find myself having to put away the mobile versions and return to the desktop which is quite the disappointment, but my eyes just can not handle the iPad font and read at the speed that I can on a more standard font.

Please allow us to change back.

Kenneth Neighoff

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424708#Comment_424708

Personally, I like the new font style.

To me it is crisper and makes reading much more enjoyable..

Paul Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421314#Comment_421314

I have talked repeatedly about font topics with the development department and at some point the previous font choice might be added. It's an odd position to be in - if the new font were the "old" font and we switched to the other, there would also be complaints. As always, your opinion is valued and thanks for letting us know.

Hi Kevin,

I think it would be a really good thing to allow font choices--both for typeface and for font size. Other iOS Bible apps do it.

As for the new Logos 3.1.1 app font, one thing I like is that you can finally distinguish the bold verse numbers in the NASB that mark new paragraphs!

However, I, too, would rather go back to the old font because on an iPod Touch/iPhone you lose about three lines of text on each screen because of the increased white space between the lines. Fewer lines means that I'm swiping more pages. Obviously not a big deal, but very much an unnecessary change in my opinion.

Regards,

Paul

Ben Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424873#Comment_424873

Agree with Paul and others. New font is a step back. Providing a choice between previous font and this will solve the problem.

John Murphy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424890#Comment_424890

I agree, the new font is awful. I used to use the app all the time but can't now. My eyes can't adjust to the new font without straining. Why fix something that isn't broke? Can we at least have a choice?

Jonathan Pitts

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424873#Comment_424873

I think it would be a really good thing to allow font choices--both for typeface and for font size. Other iOS Bible apps do it.

You can change the size using the Aa symbol in the top right corner. I find I want one size smaller with this font, but I would rather go back to a conservative serif font for reading.

Andrew Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424948#Comment_424948

The new font doesn't really bother me apart from the extra white space, but I do wonder why we can't choose our own fonts.

JimTowler

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424970#Comment_424970

Speaking as a customer, my vote is for being able to pick from a small set of fonts. At least the new and old, but 5 is not a crazy idea.

One of the things I've disliked with the move from Logos 3 is the removal of user choices. I understand why a mobile version of an app must by nature be smaller and more simple, but please let users have more options on some of the aspects of the applications.

Mike Finnie, MDiv, Theology

I couldn't agree more. I don't mind updates and improvements, but I do not like being forced into accepting something like a font that is tiresome. I do almost all of my reading on the iPad (only because Kindle isn't supported) and the new font it tiring after a while. At least with my BibleReader, I can change the font to suit my reading on any of my devices. Would have been good if Logos had thought of that. Folks who have vast a Logos library are pretty much stuck with whatever is shoved in front of us. Feels like being a captive audience with no choices.

Mike

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424606#Comment_424606

Just to give opinion from the opposite side. I like the new font on both Logos 5 PC and iPad. Every time I open the Bible, I have to appreciate the good choice of the font. And yes, I use it for longer reading. But I understand I might be an exception to the rule.

I like the new fonts better as well.

Bill Cook

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424989#Comment_424989

Too much leading and too much kerning.

Far be it from to complain about a free app so wonderfully made. But, I do prefer the previous font. I hate to eve ask, but it would be nice to have a choice of a few fonts...

davidphillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425008#Comment_425008

It really is subjective, isn't it? My first impression upon opening the iPad app after installing the new update was, "hey! Nice font!" That being said, it would be nice to have a small number of options to choose from so people can at least pick a font that is comparatively better for them.

Ben Bush

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425015#Comment_425015

Just curious, is providing one or more options for fonts a significant programming hurdle?

Regardless, thank you for a truly incredible Bible app.

Paul Johnson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424948#Comment_424948

I think it would be a really good thing to allow font choices--both for typeface and for font size. Other iOS Bible apps do it.

You can change the size using the Aa symbol in the top right corner. I find I want one size smaller with this font, but I would rather go back to a conservative serif font for reading.

Hi Jonathan,

You're right about changing the font size--except that on the iPod Touch/iPhone it is in the bottom right corner after you swipe down when in a Bible text. I had gone to the home page and clicked on the gear tab and looked under settings, but of course these settings are not there. I had forgotten to look on the "swipe down" page (whatever you call that). Thanks for your help!

One size smaller with the new font gives me back two of the three lines lost due to increased whitespace, so that pretty much takes care of that concern for me. The NASB bold verse-number-paragraph-markers are still distinguishable at the smaller font size, too, so I can certainly live with the new font. (I still think it would be nice to be given typeface options, though.)

Regards,

Paul

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425095#Comment_425095

I have to agree, the new font seems to distract from reading. Most people, including myself, are used to reading a Times Roman or Arial font. It isn't distracting because it is so common. I find while reading with this new font the letters seem too narrow to me. I also feel as though the Greek font alters certail letter (e.g. Theta) too much and distracts from easy recognition. I would ask that you would give a choice on fonts, this is too critical a preference not allow for some basic choice. Thanks.

dave

Peter Goeman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425147#Comment_425147

I would just like to say that I came on here hopefully looking for advice on how to change the new Greek font. I strongly dislike the font. I would rather have the previous font. Not sure why it was changed.

Looks like it would be a huge benefit to be able to change fonts.

Love the Logos App though. It has been a huge blessing and I will continue to use it. I would prefer a return to the old fonts though.

Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/420151#Comment_420151

I'm sorry you do not like the decision to change the English font. What about it is more difficult to read?

I will try and give some clarity to why many find the new font difficult to read for a lengthy amount of time.

1. All strokes of each character are the same width.

2. The font resembles a typewriter font more than a typeset font. (It is closer to Courier than Times.)

3. There is too much leading (too much space between lines of text).

4. There is so much space between characters that it almost looks like a monospaced font (where each character occupies the same amount of space horizontally)

5. The italics of the font are not easily distinguishable from the regular font. So, you have to look twice to make sure it's in italics.

All five reasons given above make following a line of text more difficult to read and more tiring to read. The two good things about the font are it is a serif font and the characters are clear (not blurry) on screen. But anyone who does typesetting or knows about design and typography SHOULD know these concepts listed above. Many of them are clear "no-nos" for publishing.

While some people may not care much about the new font, these concepts have been shown to cause exactly what many are complaining about in the majority of the population. Any company that publishes books should be extremely aware of these concepts and seek to avoid them. I am amazed that Logos would choose a font like this!

Bob Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425238#Comment_425238

I'm a fan of the old font as well. Even on my Mac, using Logos 5, I chose the old Logos font. It would be nice to have that choice on the iPad/iPhone as well. If you need an adjective to describe it... maybe... icky? lol Its just personal preference.

Into Grace

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425371#Comment_425371

I prefer the new font. It seems more crisp and sharp. I hope Logos give their customers a choice of fonts like Olive Tree does. Customers like choices. [:)]

Tom Geswein

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425418#Comment_425418

I didn't realize the font had changed and I read on my ipod a lot. It would be nice to have a choice, but I'm perfectly fine with what we have now.

Kevin Byford (Faithlife)

After updating yesterday, I was surprised to find that you changed the font. I much preferred the older font and wish that you had left an option to keep the other. It is harder for me to read now and I may choose a different electronic bible as my study bible. Why change a good thhing?

Ssc

Hi Susan,

I have been told by development that we are looking into adding the old font back and allowing a choice to be made between the two, but I don't know when this will be implemented. Thanks!

Aaron Allison

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/426018#Comment_426018

Didn't the previous version have several fonts in which to choose from, not just one or two? I rather enjoyed using Palatino, now I'm deeply regretting updating my software. I hate to sound picky, but I really miss my font. It was comfortable for my eyes to read for long periods of time, unlike the new narrow typewriter look, which to me is so archaic I'm having a tough time realizing why they thought everyone would like it more than having a choice. I hope they will patch this and bring back the other fonts soon, truetype font files take up little to no disk space and it wouldn't take much code-wise to revisit this.

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427301#Comment_427301

Just to clarify...Is this the font that so many are complaining about? (3.1.1.1744)

Chris Dixon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/426018#Comment_426018

I am visually impaired, and I also find the new font to be much harder to read. I would really appreciate the choice to use the old font.

Andrew Malone

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425238#Comment_425238

I will try and give some clarity to why many find the new font difficult to read for a lengthy amount of time.

I think Dan's five clarifications are helpful for those of us describing the typesetting issues. I'd add one more reason why I find the newer font distressing on the eyes:

6. There is a significant difference between the cap and ascender lines. This is most easily seen where a tall letter follows a capital (as in 'The' or 'Illegal' or 'Ultimate'); the capitals cower a little below the height of the taller letters.

I've just finished a 100,000-word dissertation and spent weeks procrastinating – using font selection as my excuse. I expressly rejected fonts like the new iPad version, finding them just not viable for sustained reading. Indeed, I tried valiantly to procure one close to the older Logos font. I'll add my voice to those seeking the option to restore it.

Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427361#Comment_427361

For whatever it's worth, I like the new font better. The line spacing could be a bit tighter for my taste, especially on the phone, but overall I consider it an improvement. Of course, choice is always the best.

Developers, if you're considering giving users a choice of fonts, you may want to check out the fonts available in Instapaper. That app has, hands down, the best collection of fonts for mobile reading I've ever seen. There's a blog entry from the developer that talks a little about it here.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/427365#Comment_427365

I hope if Logos would give a choice of fonts, they would keep the Skolar (new) font in the offer also.

Paul Marshall

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/421314#Comment_421314

Just for the record, I really don't like the new font either. So much, that I found myself using another bible app which is easier to read.

Kevin Byford (Faithlife)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428449#Comment_428449

Just for the record, I really don't like the new font either. So much, that I found myself using another bible app which is easier to read.

Hi Paul,

As I mentioned earlier in this thread, we are looking at adding the old font back thus giving a choice between the new and the old. Thanks.

Reid A Ferguson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/428882#Comment_428882

Never a way to please us all - eh? But just for the record, I positively LOVE the new font. It would be nice to have a choice, but not a complaint on this one is not. Good job.