Not happy with starter features for Logos 5

So far I have spent $1529 on Logos (including a yet to be delivered pre pub) not a vast amount in comparison to many but still I think a substantial investment.

I have just upgraded to Logos 5 starter and I am not at all happy that features are missing such as timeline my question is why? I didn't really want any more resources and I didn't mind paying the $66 for the new engine but all new features should be integral to every edition.

Not at all happy Zip it!

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Edwin Bowden

Logos has a generous 30 day money back policy.

Call to return the L5 Starter pkg.

Wait for the free L5 engine or the crossgrades to be announced.

Dave Hooton

Steven

The Upgrade chart shows you what features are available and that Timeline requires a Bronze upgrade. More features (and data sets) are available with each level and Gold has all of them. It is possible to ask for a refund and purchase a Crossgrade option (not yet available) which will enable you to get the Features and data sets for around $100 - $150 (depending what you want). The details are not finalised, so the pricing should not be taken as final either.

Simon’s Brother

Hi Steven,

To get the new features you will need to wait for Logos to release cross-grade options. Personally I think starter is really confusing to users and what it is should have been explained more clearly. It seems to be assumed users will understand. But what this release has shown is a lot of users who came on board with Logos 4 really don't understand the Logos upgrade pathways because they never have experienced it until now. Ideally cross-grade should have been available upfront from my perspective but Logos is free to implement their new release in the way they choose.

It is normal practice by Logos for access to some features to be restricted to those who have higher level library packages. Often specific resources and data sets are required to make use of the features. A lot of work has gone in behind the scenes particular creating datasets for Logos 5 and I believe Logos deserves to be remunerated adequately for their efforts.

Over the last ten years they have gone from around 10 employees to over 300. I have spent a lot more than you, and there are others that have spent a lot more than I but the money you, I and everyone else on these forums that we gave to Logos yesterday, is not going to continue paying their wages today, let alone in the future. A lot of that money has gone to the publishers before they can even think about paying their own bills or paying staff.

It's good though for users like yourself to raise your concerns because Logos needs to hear feedback, even if it is negative, if it is to become more in touch with its customers and how better to communicate with and market their product to them.

Andrew Sedlacek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424808#Comment_424808

HI,

This is where I'm confused. I originally had the Bible Study package plus individual resources purchased over the years. As a light duty user that was fine for me. When I called to inquire about version 5 I was ecouraged to get the Starter package rather than wait for the Crossgrade since the Starter would be cheaper for me. I figured the Crossgrade would only be the bare minimum while the starter would give me a few of the new Data Sets. So i went with the Starter.

This post is making it sound like if I wait for the Crossgrade I can pick and choose what Data Sets I get which will vary the price I pay. But does that mean which Data Sets I can get still depends on the level of my original base package? Or will the Crossgrade allow you to choose any of the Data Sets regardless of your Base Package level.

Does any one know if the Data Sets be sold individually at some later date? I understand some will not work without specific resources but I would imagine some in the higher packages would work regardless of the package level if you have the specific resource already.

Bottomline it sounds like I should have waited for the Crossgrade rather than going for the Starter?

Thanks,

Andy

Andrew Sedlacek

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424841#Comment_424841

Opps, I guess I should have started reading http://community.logos.com/forums/t/58259.aspx first.[:$]

So I should return the Starter and wait.

From the post:

- There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100. (It will use dynamic pricing as well, but will probably be the same price for most users since almost all the content will be completely new to Logos 5.)

- The Minimal Crossgrade is being configured, but we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets (Timeline, Bible Facts, Clause Database, Bible Sense Lexicon, Phrases, Preaching Themes, Thematic Outlines, etc.). Some Logos 5 features only "light-up" or add value when specific books are present, and we're figuring out which ones should be included in this crossgrade.

(The Minimal Crossgrade for Logos 5 is not the same as "Gold to Gold" or a 'same level' crossgrade -- it will not add the books in "Gold 5" to an existing "Gold 4" -- just the new data sets.)

NEW, Friday, 11/9: We've been looking at the interdependence of some of the data sets, and the fact that even for original purchasers, some of the new data sets / resources are only in Gold and above. So we're planning to split the crossgrade into two levels; the smaller one will likely be under $100, and appropriate for someone with CHL, BSL, Leader's, or Scholar's, and the larger one with have the language-related resources and data sets, too, and be somewhere over $100, depending on what you already own. It will be for people who had Scholar's, Silver, Gold, etc.

Mark Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424841#Comment_424841

Andrew,

From what we know at this point it seems there might be two options for minimum crossgrades, with pricing dependent on what data sets and features you already own. You won't be able to pick and choose individual features or data sets. AFAIK Logos never plans to offer the data sets and features individually.

When the crossgrade comes out you can return your Starter package as long as that happens within 30 days. In fact, I think Logos might be flexible about the return if you explain your experience.

Remember that you must have received some new content for your package upgrade. Depending on how valuable that is to you, you may want to go the Starter+Minimum crossgrade route.

EDIT: You found the info. You still have 30 days to return from date of purchase.

Sean Lillis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424844#Comment_424844

Give them a call. Their return policy is great, and you sound like a good candidate for the future cross grade. Let them know what you have shared with us, and they will get you fixed up...you just might have to wait a bit :-)

Steven Hill

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424847#Comment_424847

Thank you for the replies.

I think Logos is a marvellous programme and would heartily recommend it to anyone. I can quite see that in order to maintain their company and our benefits from being customers they need a constant revenue stream I did say that others have spent much, much more than I have ,would that I could afford more.

I should have looked more closely before diving in to upgrade. I don't regret the purchase just not happy that the only way to get the new features is to pay another $287 for the bronze version and end up with many resources that I don't want. I much prefer to chose what I add to my Library at the moment I am waiting for the excellent 'Feasting on the Word' set which I have pre-ordered. I previously purchased "The Word' commentary set which is amazing and the IVP commentary series. I don't want the commentaries that come with the bronze edition.

I'll stay with what I have and see what happens it would have been good to have the option to just buy Logos 5 without resources from the outset.

I reiterate Logos is a brilliant product and I will continue to buy resources as I am able. I don't expect my modest custom will do much for the company but I do hope they will thrive.

Simon’s Brother

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424943#Comment_424943

Steven I'm glad to hear you've been able to work through this now and get some clarity on the situation. It is a bit of a maze for each user to negotiate through and work out what is the best option for their particular situation. There are times when I believe Logos doesn't get it right and I believe in being honest about those situations. But they are a great bunch of people who are in this business for the right reasons and I believe they do value your custom just as much as the next person.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424943#Comment_424943

I should have looked more closely before diving in to upgrade. I don't regret the purchase just not happy that the only way to get the new features is to pay another $287 for the bronze version and end up with many resources that I don't want.

Call and return your "starter" package… then purchase the minimal cross grade when it comes out.

Patrick S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424959#Comment_424959

Call and return your "starter" package… then purchase the minimal cross grade when it comes out.

Sorry... couldn't resist... http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59632/424490.aspx#424925 [W]

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424943#Comment_424943

I don't expect my modest custom will do much for the company but I do hope they will thrive.

You may not think that your modest contribution does much for the company, but when you multiply that by a few hundred thousand, it makes a huge difference. Of course, it does help Logos to have a few who have more finances than self-control, like me [:D]

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424943#Comment_424943

I should have looked more closely before diving in to upgrade. I don't regret the purchase just not happy that the only way to get the new features is to pay another $287 for the bronze version and end up with many resources that I don't want.

I'll stay with what I have and see what happens it would have been good to have the option to just buy Logos 5 without resources from the outset.

I

Many of us agree with you!

Edwin Bowden

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425026#Comment_425026

I should have looked more closely before diving in to upgrade. I don't regret the purchase just not happy that the only way to get the new features is to pay another $287 for the bronze version and end up with many resources that I don't want.

I'll stay with what I have and see what happens it would have been good to have the option to just buy Logos 5 without resources from the outset.

I

Many of us agree with you!

Logos did not have the server or personnel capacity to handle those who wanted to pay for pkg upgrades. How would they have also handled those wanting free upgrades?

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425028#Comment_425028

I should have looked more closely before diving in to upgrade. I don't regret the purchase just not happy that the only way to get the new features is to pay another $287 for the bronze version and end up with many resources that I don't want.

I'll stay with what I have and see what happens it would have been good to have the option to just buy Logos 5 without resources from the outset.

I

Many of us agree with you!

Logos did not have the server or personnel capacity to handle those who wanted to pay for pkg upgrades. How would they have also handled those wanting free upgrades?

I didn't say I wanted a free upgrade. I said I wanted to pay for the cross-grade not another base package.

DMB

Steven, we kept quiet out of courtesy.

But we're getting REALLY tired of people not reading the EULA agreements, especially as regards your purchase. If you had BOTHERED to look at paragraph 4.2, you'd have EASILY noticed that making even hints about Logos that are not fully supportive are NOT allowed, until you either spend $100,000 with Logos OR purchase the SCHOLARS LEVEL (they haven't updated the EULA yet).

Now, you're not at the scholar's level yet and you're not even CLOSE to $100,000 in purchases. Does this sound like you can complain??

We don't think so.

But more seriously, you don't have to meet some sort of purchasing level to be a happy customer at Logos (or express your frustrations). I think that's why Logos even lets non-owners participate as long as they have an account (and to reiterate, I was joking above).

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425034#Comment_425034

Steven, we kept quiet out of courtesy.

But we're getting REALLY tired of people not reading the EULA agreements, especially as regards your purchase. If you had BOTHERED to look at paragraph 4.2, you'd have EASILY noticed that making even hints about Logos that are not fully supportive are NOT allowed, until you either spend $100,000 with Logos OR purchase the SCHOLARS LEVEL (they haven't updated the EULA yet).

Now, you're not at the scholar's level yet and you're not even CLOSE to $100,000 in purchases. Does this sound like you can complain??

We don't think so.

But more seriously, you don't have to meet some sort of purchasing level to be a happy customer at Logos (or express your frustrations). I think that's why Logos even lets non-owners participate as long as they have an account (and to reiterate, I was joking above).

I started reading this and was like WOW REALLY? But as I kept reading I couldn't help but laugh!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425034#Comment_425034

(and to reiterate, I was joking above)

[:D]

Dwight Enfield

I agree - Logos 5 Starter is a ripe off! Very unhappy long time customer

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425283#Comment_425283

Hi Dwight - and welcome to the forums

I agree - Logos 5 Starter is a ripe off! Very unhappy long time customer

In what way is this the case? Surely it provides the functionality which it claims to deliver.

Graham

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/424988#Comment_424988

I don't expect my modest custom will do much for the company but I do hope they will thrive.

You may not think that your modest contribution does much for the company, but when you multiply that by a few hundred thousand, it makes a huge difference. Of course, it does help Logos to have a few who have more finances than self-control, like me

You don't happen to need a 28 year old seminary student for a son do you? lol

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425290#Comment_425290

I don't expect my modest custom will do much for the company but I do hope they will thrive.

You may not think that your modest contribution does much for the company, but when you multiply that by a few hundred thousand, it makes a huge difference. Of course, it does help Logos to have a few who have more finances than self-control, like me

You don't happen to need a 28 year old seminary student for a son do you? lol

Sorry, I have 3 children, 8 grandchildren (+ 4 spouses), and 7 great-grandchildren. My quota seems close to full—and I fear that the grandchildren are not done yet [:D]

Mike Binks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425699#Comment_425699

Ken - you can't trust this man - in another thread he told us there was only one girl for him!

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/425894#Comment_425894

Ken - you can't trust this man - in another thread he told us there was only one girl for him!

Do you need some lessons in exegesis? [8-|] Those 4 spouses are connected with 4 grandchildren (nearest antecedent).

Seeing the discussion of Scottish dishes in another thread—and doing a bit of research—I can now understand your warped sense of humor [:D]