Wallbuilders Founders Library missing from Logos, WHY? (conspiracy theory)

Logos used to carry the Wallbuilders Founders Library for about $500. This was a great collection of books by David Barton and associates. I know there were video DVDs imbedded in the collection and they may have not performed correctly with Logos 5. But I have a suspicious mind whenever there are other detractions surrounding the disappearance of a resource.

Fact #1: An allegedly Moody Bible Institute owned radio station cancelled David Barton's regular show because Barton accepted Glenn Beck's self-described label that Beck is a Christian saved by Jesus Christ. (Moody disagrees that Beck is a Christian and pulled Barton's show because Barton would not challenge Beck's words.

Fact #2: David Barton's book The Jefferson Lies challenged conventional claims by academics & "scholars" that Jefferson was not a Christian, did not like churches, did not believe in the divinity of Jesus, and was a basically evil slave owner by choice. The Jefferson Lies was challenged by agnostic historians and they approached Thomas Nelson, the publisher of Barton's book, in an attempt to destroy the book. Nelson acquiesced and pulled the book.

I wonder if the disappearance of the Wallbuilders Founders Collection is the result of one of the two issues cited above or just because it won't run under Logos 5. I wonder if Christians are caving in to secular challenges and shaking in fear of the next confrontation. Good thing Nelson is not in charge of defining who is a Christian among Logos users. Coffee

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Cliff Lawrence

I agree with Moody for standing for non-compromising truth.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442017#Comment_442017

My concern and reason for posting was not to divisively poll Logos users according to doctrinal lines but to raise a red flag of caution when deleting (censoring?) resources available in the Logos catalog.

I, too, believe there is only one name that can save. But I can show divergent views are published and broadcast by Moody. Can we not trust listeners to judge all by the scriptures? Do we need Nanny Nelson, Mother Moody, or the government fairness committee to decide what gets published in Logos?

I am hoping the Wallbuilders Founders Library is just being retooled for Logos 5 and will return to the catalog. That is the crux of my initial post. The rest is just livewire stuff to coax an answer from Logos. [:O]

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442021#Comment_442021

I disagree with your characterization of "Mother Moody" - It may be misleading to refer to KBJS as a “Moody Broadcast Network station”: While it apparently does carry some Moody-produced programs–and may be branded (by others) as “The Moody Broadcasting Affiliate for Northeast Texas”–it’s not one of the many Moody-owned stations.

as for censorship - American liberty promotes freedom of speech, but The Bible says that teachers (does this apply to radio stations?) must give an account for their words. No radio station (or electronic library) is under obligation to offer/promote teaching that it considers false. I don't believe either KBJS, Moody Bible Institute or Logos Bible software are saying that you can't read Barton's books. They are simply saying "we don't offer/promote them".

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442111#Comment_442111

The books will work in Logos 5. I have not checked to see if the videos will run.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442117#Comment_442117

The books will work in Logos 5. I have not checked to see if the videos will run.

I am very happy to hear that. I am keenly interested if the videos will also work. This collection is a great resource, not for doctrinal purposes, but historical reference, and it was on my wishlist.

I hope Logos can address the future availability of the collection.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442162#Comment_442162

I will check the videos tonight and let you know.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442111#Comment_442111

I disagree with your characterization of "Mother Moody"

I appreciate your disagreement. On reflection it was rather "high-horsed" of me to pull out my sword against Moody for just being affiliated with KBJS. That is, after all, the offence I took with KBJS and their condemnation of David Barton for his "affiliation" with Mormon Glenn Beck. My apologies to the good folk at Moody. (I love their science films and the Foundation of Biblical Ministry (AM Bible Courseware)

as for censorship - The only doctrinal issue espoused in this Barton/Beck dialogue was that of salvation in the name of Jesus alone. Both men agreed with that issue. I would hope KBJS, Moody, and Barton all agree on that point. Is it possible to be saved and still hold to erroneous doctrine? Acts 18:24-28 Is it possible to be a Christian and not be sure of your salvation? 1 John 5:13 Is it possible to believe one is saved and yet be truly lost because we base our salvation on our works? Matthew 7:21-23

I don't bring these verses up to foment argument amongst us. I just want a little more forbearance when it comes to deciding who is a "Christian" and who is not. I know of a preacher who gave communion to a dog. I know of a man who required his wife to wear red nail polish to represent the blood of Christ. I know of Hmong immigrants who fled to America with multiple wives and after conversion still support their multiple families with those wives. I would be very wary of pronouncing who of these people are Christians and who are not.

David Barton's body of work is the Christian history of our nation and the founding fathers. He does cast a wide net when it comes to defining who is a Christian. I value his books for learning the influence the Bible has had on the founding and formation of the USA.

Again, I apologize for my snide remarks about both Moody and Nelson. I suppose most people in both organizations are truly saved believers. Only God knows for sure

Schezic

Fact #1: An allegedly Moody Bible Institute owned radio station cancelled David Barton's regular show because Barton accepted Glenn Beck's self-described label that Beck is a Christian saved by Jesus Christ. (Moody disagrees that Beck is a Christian and pulled Barton's show because Barton would not challenge Beck's words.

FACT ?

Randy Featherston, KBJS manager, said the show was dropped due to Barton’s failure to distinguish between Mormon theology and Christianity:

“When David Barton said it doesn’t matter whether you are a Mormon or a Baptist or a Methodist, we felt we had to do something,” Featherston explained. Featherston said the station did not take the action lightly, saying “I like a lot of what Barton has to say, but we don’t want to confuse listeners into thinking that Mormon doctrine and Christianity are the same.”

I do not make a judgment concerning Beck's Christianity. However I reserve the right to assess his sanity.

I digress.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442188#Comment_442188

Barton's assertion that Mormonism should be considered Christianity:

Barton's assertion was there is only one name under heaven by which men can be saved. The sign in front of your place of worship does not determine your status as a saved believer. The personal relationship with Jesus Christ is what matters. Barton never promoted Mormonism. He only promoted the name of Jesus as being the sole way to salvation.

Randy Featherston, KBJS manager, said the show was dropped due to Barton’s failure to distinguish between Mormon theology and Christianity.

So Featherston admits Barton's show was cancelled for something Barton did not say. Hmmm [^o)]

“When David Barton said it doesn’t matter whether you are a Mormon or a Baptist or a Methodist, we felt we had to do something,”

If you replace the word "Mormon" with "Catholic" in Featherston's sentence he would still feel he "had to do something bout it." I wonder how Featherston really feels about Methodists. I expect a high degree of sectarianism from KBJS. I was just hoping Nelson had not used undue influence over Logos to pull the Wallbuilders resources from the catalog. If they succeeded in that, look out Catholics, SDA, Pentecostals and whatever you may call yourselves.

I am not going to pursue a bunch of little doctrinal or denominational stances. My purpose of the post is to discover the why & wherefore of the disappearance of the Wallbuilders resources.

Kent Hendricks

This will likely be available as a download sometime in the next month or two.

Schezic

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442202#Comment_442202

My purpose of the post is to discover the why & wherefore of the disappearance of the Wallbuilders resources.

Then why didn't you ask Bob? Why call attention to a Glenn Beck Flap that may ...or may not have a thing to do with the availability of the resource?

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442203#Comment_442203

This will likely be available as a download sometime in the next month or two.

WooHoo!

Thanks for wording up Kent. That sets my suspicious mind at ease. Two months from now will be nice. I still have three bundles in my cart I need to finalize before I go for Wallbuilders.

I have seen what happens when one company with undue influence tells a supplier they can not sell to competitors. (Toys-R-Us told Mattel they could not sell the same Barbie dolls to WalMart or Target.) I hope we never see the day when the Pope, SBC or Masters Seminary starts telling Logos what not to sell.We do have the prior history with eNelson pulling the Hank Hanegraaff LifeWorks collection due to external scandal.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442205#Comment_442205

Then why didn't you ask Bob?

I posted the thread at 9pm Sunday. I baited it with what I called "livewire". I got my official Logos answer from Kent just 12 hours later.

"Why?" you ask? It was effective.

Remember I did call attention to the AM Moody Courseware and the upcoming re-release of Wallbuilders. Hopefully others will buy these resources.

I'm happy & I'm done. [H]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/442205#Comment_442205

Since we're in the flapication mode, for anyone curious, here is a text file I dumped out of my Bible software listing the NT verses that Jefferson put in his first version (1809 if I remember right), and then his second version. Keep in mind he selected text; not necessarily whole verses. The numbers are the respective folio page.

The first version contents are very hard to come by; the second one is easily obtainable and quite interesting. I pulled them in to see how close his observations were to the various 'Q' versions as well as my own greek pattern matching. Jefferson also was working off of harmonies and was pretty gifted in greek as well as latin and french. I don't remember if his friend's harmony was in english or greek.

2843.JeffersonBible.txt.