Books in other Software programs

Blair Laird said:

If all the bible software companies would just switch to the logos format...

I would love that but I doubt Logos would see it as being in their best interest. While other companies may well see it in their interest. And I think most defiantly it would be an ideal thing for us users, but i think it is a near impossibility to see it happen.

Going back to the original question, some software companies offer upgrades if owning a work in a competitors program. It usually varies resource to resource and company to company. I am not aware of any cross grades Logos has allowed beyond Zondervan resources from pradis years back.

-Dan 

Michael Childs said:

No, it is not intended to be nasty.  Boo Boo was Yogi Bear's best friend.  I simply find you arguments to be silly. No point continuing this discussion. We will never agree.

Hi Michael, 

precisely what is silly?  what part? i'm open to be corrected so long as you explain yourself - that's all im saying.

Do you mean the following is silly?

1. Pay for published electronic books etc once. ( PUBLISHER GETS THEIR SALE FOR THE CUSTOMER )

2. pay a smaller fee for enhancements per bible software product that offers them.  ( SOFTWARE COMPANY GETS PAID FOR THEIR WORK / PRODUCT )

--- Meaning: if a bible software product offers enhancements for that book ( tags and significant features specific to the product (other than view/nav/basic search), and processing time for turning the book into their proprietary format - or even just for their time to offer supporting that book.)

3. however users who purchase those books can freely read / navigate those materials on any software.  ( USER PAYS ONCE PER BOOK, AND CAN CHOOSE TO ENHANCE PER SOFTWARE PRODUCT THEY USE)

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Consider this scenario:

- user wants to purchase an electronic book/ book set costing $1,000

- user decides to purchase it in Logos format so it costs $1200 ( for example book=$1000 Logos enhancements for that book=$200)

- user wants to use it in WordSearch with the Enhancements offered by them for this product so user pays $200 (for example) for the enhancements.

- user also likes to use it in theWord Bible Software but is happy just to use the regular Read/Nav/Basic Search without enhancements.

Result

The user has saved $1000 from the WordSearch purchase & WordSearch Got Paid too.

The user saved $1000 (arguably) from not needing to purchase it again for basic Read/Nav/Basic search in TheWord.

-----------------------

So if any of my 'arguments' to justify this were silly, or not well founded enough, or not public knowledge enough to warrant them being glazed over so that the picture above can remain the point of focus then perhaps they were weak or silly points.  However do you honestly think the above is silly?

I haven't thought this through extensively, but I've thought for a while now that a good system might be something like this:

1) Publishers sell you a basic electronic license for a book.

2) You pay any publisher-approved platform provider (e.g. Logos, Accordance, Kindle, Nook, etc.) to use your license(s) on their platform. The platform fees would be set by each platform provider, and you could pay one platform fee to use your license on one platform or multiple platform fees to use your license on several platforms.

3) A small portion of that platform fee also goes to the publisher (thus incentivizing them to approve as many platform providers as possible).

Now I really have no idea what that margins look like in this business, but let me throw out some hypothetical numbers of how this might all work.

Let's look at a book that you might currently buy from Logos for $10.

Currently, the publisher might get $8 of that $10 purchase price while Logos gets $2.

Under this system I am talking about, you would purchase a license for the book from the publisher for $7.50. You would then pay Logos $2.50 to use it on their platform. Of that $2.50, Logos would pay the publisher $0.50. Then if you wanted to use that license on Amazon's Kindle, Amazon might charge you another $1.50 (with $0.30 going to the publisher).

Admittedly, this approach seems most likely to benefit readers, as publishers would no longer get paid the full value again when you purchase a book on another platform. Furthermore, platform providers would no longer have you quite as "locked-in" when you own a book for use on their platform. And even though it most benefits readers, it still won't satisfy those who think you should only have to pay for a book once.

However, in the long-run, I think this is a pretty fair model for everyone. And I would hope that a system like this would be so much more attractive to readers that it would boost overall interest in the electronic book market, thus generating additional sales for publishers and platform providers.

Most of the Thailand discussion is what's called the 'grey market' and the arguments have been going back and forth for decades, every since '3rd' world countries have received extensive marketing (3rd world meaning a significant difference in the standard of living).

The problem with unfettered transfers as advocated above, is that it reduces the ability of western producers to supply less wealthy countries at an affordable price, instead insuring the purchasable choices of the wealthy ('us').

Sogol said:

Whoops. Sorry, Luigi Sam. I didn't see that you posted this before I posted my comment. However, it looks like we have some similar thinking on this. Good to know that others see the value in this kind of model!

That's ok. You added to your own unique part too which is also valid and useful.

I am glad that someone actually responded directly regarding the type of model we both are thinking of.  It is affirming to know that their is support and understanding on this line of thought.

have a nice day.

Ah it is great to see we can see eye to eye on the idea.

Super Tramp said:

OK, I am game. I have a bunch of resources in
WordSearch and I have BibleWorks 9. I would love to pay Logos a smaller
fee to move them into my Logos library. I still doubt we ever see this
happen unless Logos buys out the others. I did notice WordSearch gave
credit for resources we had in QuickVerse. My STEP books were also
converted into Cross format for free.

The reason some of my original posts regarded 'tactics' which users could consider using to aid in changing the way things happen. Maybe those posts caused a bit of contention. 

Do you have any ideas on how users can aid in this? My original posts were meant to branch out on ideas / extensions / alternatives - but it got side tracked (likely not helped by my wording).

Thanks.

David Ames said:

ne comment from them that I remember - that went something like - using a computer to search may miss the more important things and lead you astray] 

that is an interesting subject in its own right. maybe you could start this discussion as a new post.

It seems no one would like to contribute any ideas to my last question - ( i'm kind of replying to bump this on top again just to give it a chance. )

thanks

Hi,

For example I suggested that users can to all of the following:

1. band together on a petition website where we all vote to agree that the above proposal ( or similar ) is agreed to . 
2. await a response from representatives of bible software companies.
3. strike from purchasing bible material until a solution is found.

I posted the above on my first reply to this post and got heavily criticized by a group of people regarding its reasonableness.  What I am asking now is:

• is there a better solution ( action that users can take rather than being controlled and forced to repurchase the same book )
• or is the above the only solution that has a chance of working? 

thanks again for your time.

EDIT:
ie Im not looking for my action plan to be critiqued again, what I am looking for is some alternative solutions and/or modifications to my proposed action plan that would make it more sensible and useful - so that it leads to a result.

David Ames said:

They own the Copyrights: they can do what ever they please

This is such a dumb statement. Actually, their motive is (rightfully so) to have profits. History shows that greed and forcing customers into a strict DRM scheme is simply counterproductive to their goal of maximizing profits.

you really can't argue with history (or the market for that matter)

Doc B said:

Michael Childs said:

Why?  What gives anyone the right to tell an owner of a business how to conduct his / her business?  Illegal?  Are you kidding? 

I'll triple quote it just for kicks. While I agree that nobody has a right "to tell an owner of a business how to conduct his / her business" everyone has a right to "tell" an owner of a business how to conduct his / her business. In other words, we have free speech, do we not, Doc? A business owner would be wise to consider the market feedback.

'Nuff said

Super Tramp said:

David Ames said:

Question: Did the publisher have a printing run for Thailand or having printed extra copies did they sell the extras that had not sold in the US to the poor students in Thailand rather then burn them?

I have seen a lot of these type of  textbooks. They are specially printed for their specific foreign markets. They frequently lack graphics and are many times monochrome. I am also aware of the over-runs practice. In Korea you can buy Botany 500 suits very cheaply. In Vietnam they will sell you over-runs of Dillon Guitars. These are the actual product of the same quality but they have been re-branded or de-branded. 

What a way to create a straw-man argument! Did you see the actual books involved in the case?Of course you didn't!

Stanton said:

Like me once again state the purpose of the original post.   I wanted to know if I could use Logos to open and read books that I had in other Bible Software programs that I had already brought before I started using Logos!!!!!  The direction that this thread has gone is why I don't read forums very often and I doubt that I will ever use the Logos forum again.  I don't appreciate being accused of things like the following: "The original post for this thread seeks to buy cheap resources from
other Bible software companies and use them in Logos or to buy resources
created by Logos and run them under inferior or cheapo programs."  Before someone gives a false motive to the reason why I post something, I would appreciate them taking the time to either contact me personally or read what I have posted as to what my motives were. I am at the point of seeing if this thread can be deleted from the forums.

Im just a user, but I feel for your position. I can't justify anyone including myself for at times getting into forum wars (whether justified or not - and for good ends or not ) but I encourage you to take it in your stride and stick to your good intentions and always come back to check for apologies, or to apologize ( on cases where relevant).   After all - were all Christians and where better than to have a war and sort it out or get support eventually ..........  eventually...  :-)