Why?

Why as an adult would a person, buy a product...make a snap decision that it sucks and then spend their time complaining, INSTEAD OF calmly getting a refund, and continuing to use whatever beloved product they were using before?

I don't get it.

Ouch! These new shoes pinch! they suck...! Let me tell you how much I hate them....

(Why don't you go and get your money back and buy some other pair of shoes?)

But I've spent so much money on THESE SHOES!!

(Then keep wearing THEM...they still work just fine)

No...I'd rather complain, and then make the assumption that everyone who does like these shoes are just brainwashed.

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Comments

Jack Caviness

[Y]

Randall Hartman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45153#Comment_45153

Roger King

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45162#Comment_45162

[Y]

Mathew Haferkamp

I don't look at it so much as complaining as I don't want to learn the new and IMPROVED way, and with alot more to come. So with alot more to come some stuff is missing, I guess a growing pain.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45185#Comment_45185

Mathew,

It's not that I think everyone should like V4...I don't expect that...it's the WAY people go about expressing themselves...

Here is an example:

"...Hello, I'm VERY FRUSTRATED, and I wonder if you could help me; I used to be able to use X feature in V3 but now I can't find it nor can I see how to approximate it in V4..."

"...V4 sucks!! X feature is gone!! It's a conspiracy by a big bad software company to make my life miserable!"

It's not the actual features or lack thereof, it's the mode of expression....there are many posts here on the forum by individuals who do not like V4 and prefer to use V3 but they express themselves in a grown up way....that's all

Michael Lyman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45191#Comment_45191

I agree wholeheartedly. I purchased the upgrade on November 5th and still can't get it to work on my primary, well-endowed machine. But I'm excited about what I bought, the price and technology is amazing and it makes me love and understand the Bible even more. I've been grumpy about it at times and wish it was up and running, but I DO NOT WANT A REFUND! I just want it to work.

BTW, I've used about every other kind of Bible Software out there having managed Christian Bookstores for about 10 years, I've heard all of the others sales pitches, but everyone else seems to me to go about it half-heartedly, not Logos. Thanks again for putting up with all of us and giving us a program most of us couldn't even dream up!

Mathew Haferkamp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45191#Comment_45191

Yes Robert they could be more patient and understanding, that it is new for everyone and most issues could be solved with better understanding of how the software works. Maybe we should give a note of appreciation and compliment the software before raising an issue, that is what I try to do, because everyone is struggling with the newness and the demand.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45217#Comment_45217

Mathew,

Yes...that's a good point...say something nice before you slam...lol..

Chris Elford

Why as an adult would a person, buy a product...make a snap decision that it sucks and then spend their time complaining, INSTEAD OF calmly getting a refund, and continuing to use whatever beloved product they were using before?

I don't get it.

Ouch! These new shoes pinch! they suck...! Let me tell you how much I hate them....

(Why don't you go and get your money back and buy some other pair of shoes?)

But I've spent so much money on THESE SHOES!!

(Then keep wearing THEM...they still work just fine)

No...I'd rather complain, and then make the assumption that everyone who does like these shoes are just brainwashed.

Robert,

I think it is called "sin."

I wish I could get a full refund on the ones I commit, RIGHT NOW!!

Chris

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45232#Comment_45232

Down with all negative posters!

Luke 18:11

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45237#Comment_45237

Down with all negative posters!

Luke 18:11

Hmmm...

I think Robert made a very good point.

EDIT:

P.S. The ruling word here is not "positive or negative" but "constructive or destructive". The proper scripture to quote here would be the following:

"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." Eph 4:29 ESV.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45232#Comment_45232

I think it is called "sin."

I wish I could get a full refund on the ones I commit, RIGHT NOW!!

I find it helpful to put them on the Jesus payment plan. He paid it all.

(And THAT is what I am most thankful for! Thank you Jesus!)

Alex Scott

Why as an adult would a person, buy a product...make a snap decision that it sucks and then spend their time complaining, INSTEAD OF calmly getting a refund, and continuing to use whatever beloved product they were using before?

I don't get it.

Ouch! These new shoes pinch! they suck...! Let me tell you how much I hate them....

(Why don't you go and get your money back and buy some other pair of shoes?)

But I've spent so much money on THESE SHOES!!

(Then keep wearing THEM...they still work just fine)

No...I'd rather complain, and then make the assumption that everyone who does like these shoes are just brainwashed.

Was there some purpose to this thread Robert, or are you just trying to stir up more controversy and keep it alive?

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45255#Comment_45255

Exactly

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45247#Comment_45247

So "suck" is constructive?

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45255#Comment_45255

Was there some purpose to this thread Robert, or are you just trying to stir up more controversy and keep it alive?

Alex,

Yes...there were a couple of points.

1.) To possibly deter those who post the "this is crap" threads into possibly crafting their posts in to actual questions to hopefully get some answers from those who are more than willing to help.

2.) To vent a little for myself personally. I'm tired of reading what has been supposedly written by adults that reads like a 12 year old wrote them.

We all get frustrated...I'd been unable to logo onto the current beta of V4 for several days.

I miss sentence diagramming; it's not coming back. I miss copy and paste of searches...that's frustrating to me....

But none of that gives me the right to give up basic respect for posters here.

We haven't "drunk the kool aid" as I read this morning....we just gave the software a chance...

More clear now?

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45266#Comment_45266

So "suck" is constructive?

? Not quite sure what your point is?

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45266#Comment_45266

So "suck" is constructive?

Yes, you might be right about this word. I do not have a right "feeling" about this word, since English is my third language. But the point is correct IMHO.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45237#Comment_45237

Down with all negative posters!

Shawn,

it's not that at all; read my previous answer.

It's not that a post is negative...but it's the means of expression that I take issue with.

It doesn't seem to be that hard a concept in my mind...

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45269#Comment_45269

So "suck" is constructive?

? Not quite sure what your point is?

I think Shawn is replying to my following post:

Down with all negative posters!

Luke 18:11

Hmmm...

I think Robert made a very good point.

EDIT:

P.S. The ruling word here is not "positive or negative" but
"constructive or destructive". The proper scripture to quote here would
be the following:

"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is
good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to
those who hear." Eph 4:29 ESV.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45275#Comment_45275

Happy Thanksgiving Everyone!!!

Jon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45247#Comment_45247

"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." Eph 4:29 ESV.

Yes! This should be built in to the reply button : Are you sure your post......................? [:)]

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45277#Comment_45277

another fluff post designed to keep you ahead in the count! [:O]

Clinton Thomas

I don't get it.

Here's a series of suggestions I try and follow:

If a person asks a question about the software and I can help, I answer the question
If
a person complains (even if it is over the top) and asks a question
about the software, I try to acknowledge the frustration, ignore the complaint,
and answer the question. Proverbs 15:1
If a person
complains (and it is over the top) and does not ask a question about
the software, I ignore them. I try not to post about it, and not add any fuel to the
fire. I just leave it on the floor. Proverbs 26:4

I believe if everyone did this, the signal to noise ratio
would improve dramatically and the flame wars would stop or be limited.

I say Let Logos police those who are out of line privately.They can do this, and if this does not work, they can ban users.

Finally, I believe that if I find that ignoring the complainers is too much for me to stand, I
should probably channel my energy into a different activity/ministry. I believe that lIfe is too short to get upset about stuff like this.

Regards.

Clinton

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45274#Comment_45274

Alright, here's the deal. First of all Happy Thanksgiving everyone-- seriously. I mean I fell guilty about some of my posts here. This should be a day of Praise to God for all of His goodness.

Now, Robert, I get you post but sometimes it is very difficult to express oneself about a paticular frustration without sounding like one is complaining. Yes, people should express themselves in a graceful way but does it usually happen? No.

Logos is well capable with dealing with typical software upgrade "aches and pains" and the people that have a hard time with these changes. I would imagine that Dan and Bob and the rest of the guys are happy that this forum exist so that people can vent. That way they can ignore the irrelevant posts and answer the revelant ones.

Shawn Drewett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45304#Comment_45304

Man Clinton, that's maturity.

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45304#Comment_45304

Here's a series of suggestions I try and follow:

Yes, Clinton, I agree with you. It is surely the best approach [Y]

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45305#Comment_45305

Now, Robert, I get you post but sometimes it is very difficult to express oneself about a paticular frustration without sounding like one is complaining. Yes, people should express themselves in a graceful way but does it usually happen? No.

Shawn,

**sigh**

You are right...I also get frustrated...probably the best solution for myself and others is to just ignore...I'll see if my sinful self can do that....

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45268#Comment_45268

I miss sentence diagramming; it's not coming back.

Robert, do you have a post link to this, my understanding is that we will be getting it back( and better).???

I think you might be mistaken

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45304#Comment_45304

Well said Clinton.

Excuse me I'm going to get some more pie.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45336#Comment_45336

I think you might be mistaken

Dom,

I am

here is the info

Second Quarter 2010

Personal Book Builder (Improved to use the native book format!)
Sentence diagrammer
Sermon File
Video resources
Bibliography
Improved external web linking
Vocabulary lists
Search analysis

DominicM

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45339#Comment_45339

no harm no foul, :P

but am glad was thinking I would have to write a program to do it from scratch...

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45341#Comment_45341

dom,

no kidding...I think we were the only two sentence diagramming fans..

by the way...have you seen the free "Koineworks" diagramming software?

It's pretty killer...

http://www.lexelsoftware.com/

Michael Birney

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45304#Comment_45304

Great guidelines Clinton.

I'm not sure why this forum (and former newsgroup) seems to have so many harsh comments, inappropriate complainers, hurtful talk. I know I have fallen right into it many times, in fact that is why I go away for months or even years at a time, the harsh comment, and my reaction and responses to them. I read and respond to 2 other forums, neither bible related nor Christian, and both are much more civil - I just can't figure that out. Seems like maybe I have less grace for others on this forum then I have for the other forums - again, that makes no sense to me.

In the future, I will do my best to sticking to Clinton's guidelines, if I don't I want to be called on it.

Here's a series of suggestions I try and follow:

If a person asks a question about the software and I can help, I answer the question

If
a person complains (even if it is over the top) and asks a question
about the software, I try to acknowledge the frustration, ignore the complaint,
and answer the question. Proverbs 15:1

If a person
complains (and it is over the top) and does not ask a question about
the software, I ignore them. I try not to post about it, and not add any fuel to the
fire. I just leave it on the floor. Proverbs 26:4

I believe if everyone did this, the signal to noise ratio
would improve dramatically and the flame wars would stop or be limited.

I say Let Logos police those who are out of line privately.They can do this, and if this does not work, they can ban users.

Finally, I believe that if I find that ignoring the complainers is too much for me to stand, I
should probably channel my energy into a different activity/ministry. I believe that lIfe is too short to get upset about stuff like this.

Regards.

Clinton

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45430#Comment_45430

I'm not sure why this forum (and former newsgroup) seems to have so many harsh comments, inappropriate complainers, hurtful talk.

Sometimes comments/responses that seem overly harsh were not intended to be so by the poster. It would probably be better to request clarification than to respond harshly. I say this fully knowing I need to heed my own advice. [8-|]

Clinton Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45304#Comment_45304

Here's a series of suggestions I try and follow:

Hi,

One more thing. I was pointing at myself in this as I have been the pot, not just the kettle.

Please call me on it if I mess up.

Regards,

Clinton

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45633#Comment_45633

Please call me on it if I mess up.

You are volunteering to become a flame target [:D]

Matthew C Jones

Why as an adult would a person, buy a product...make a snap decision that it sucks and then spend their time complaining

Robert,

It's because we have a postmodern anthem "I want it all, and I want it now!"

Do you get out much? When I watch "adults" go about their daily lives (shoe shopping, ordering fast food, driving, buying groceries and even attending church!) I rarely see anything mature about them. Their conduct, speech & appearance are ridiculously immature. They only want to be the center of attention. Last night a car pulled up next to me at the traffic light. A baby in a car-seat had a glorious mowhawk hair-do. I laughed about it then but on reflection it is sad.

When dealing with Logos 4, we have different factors. Since the decision makers at Logos only hear what is spoken, the quiet people who never make any noise are not heard. The squeaky wheels (myself included) get more attention than they deserve. Corporate studies show most customers are lost when they quietly walk away wihout a peep. The complainers are either just venting their frustrations or hopelessly irretrievable.

Clinton Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45647#Comment_45647

You are volunteering to become a flame target

I always knew my asbestos underwear would come in handy.

Michael Birney

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45647#Comment_45647

Probably, and when it happens I will go away for a year or so, and then try it again.

But, I've enjoyed this forum this time more than the last half-dozen or so times I participated (when it was a newsgroup), mostly because I feel like I have something to contribute because everyone is on basically the same learning curve.

Please call me on it if I mess up.

You are volunteering to become a flame target

Dan Sheppard

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45274#Comment_45274

It's not that a post is negative...but it's the means of expression that I take issue with.

It doesn't seem to be that hard a concept in my mind...

I think it is indicative of someone needing more fiber in your diet.

That, plus too much espresso.

Doc B

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45304#Comment_45304

I don't get it.

Here's a series of suggestions I try and follow:

If a person asks a question about the software and I can help, I answer the question

If
a person complains (even if it is over the top) and asks a question
about the software, I try to acknowledge the frustration, ignore the complaint,
and answer the question. Proverbs 15:1

If a person
complains (and it is over the top) and does not ask a question about
the software, I ignore them. I try not to post about it, and not add any fuel to the
fire. I just leave it on the floor. Proverbs 26:4

I believe if everyone did this, the signal to noise ratio
would improve dramatically and the flame wars would stop or be limited.

<snip>

I agree. My problem is, I can't leave it on the floor. I try too hard to give them perspective I think they lack. And I agree that mostly, that just raises the noise level, but I can't seem to walk away.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45278#Comment_45278

"Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear." Eph 4:29 ESV.

Yes! This should be built in to the reply button : Are you sure your post......................?

Actually what should be built into the "Reply" post is a button that says, "Did you read the FAQ" yet?" Please read it before you post the same question 15 other people just posted because they did not read the FAQ.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45885#Comment_45885

I agree. My problem is, I can't leave it on the floor. I try too hard to give them perspective I think they lack. And I agree that mostly, that just raises the noise level, but I can't seem to walk away.

Doc,

as you might have guessed...I have the same problem... [:$]

Jon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45889#Comment_45889

Bob, did you start this thread to complain about complaining? [:P]

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45887#Comment_45887

Actually what should be built into the "Reply" post is a button that says, "Did you read the FAQ" yet?" Please read it before you post the same question 15 other people just posted because they did not read the FAQ.

You are right Joe. Some few years ago I read a lot one other forum connected to the Win Mobile. It was a strict rule that person had to read the forum first before asking any question. Otherwise they were pointed in a very direct words to do that first. I am glad power users of Logos are much more gracious to deal with the same problem. One thing with explains not reading the forum first is the most unclear and difficult system of this forum software. Not really helping the situation. I never do any searching here, because it is of little help usually.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46086#Comment_46086

Bob, did you start this thread to complain about complaining?

Jon,

you weren't supposed to notice that...

Kettle.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/46107#Comment_46107

Jon,

you weren't supposed to notice that...

Kettle.

hehehe...when you called yourself kettle I thought for a second you were trying to say something when you called him Jon.