So, what are people's thoughts about the email blog today from Logos saying that they messed up the launch of L5? Initially I am very impressed that they had the guts to respond this way.
A nice gesture. It doesn't make up for the stress it caused, but it was nice. Hopefully it won't happen again though.
Not only was it nice to see them own the mistake but Logos actually offered a fix. Classic Logos.
I guess?
I couldn't figure it out. But likely some other folks got confused with the names. Bronze. Silver. Gold.
I'm just looking forward to them getting Logos5 and Bible Sense to work. Hasn't it been 6 weeks or so?
I responded by immediately upgrading from L4 Platinum to L5 Platinum. Whee!
Ok, Jack. Fess up. Clearly you get it.
It has something to do with the sentence 'you have a chance to get the base package you really want without missing out on that first-time-upgrade discount! '
First-time from what?
First time from L3 or L4 I gather. That is what the blog article is about, those who discovered they'd lost better upgrade pricing once they upgraded to L5. That was a surprise to many people. Suddenly the discounts were far less than before they upgraded.
I guess I just wonder why Logos doesn't reset the upgrade calculator for everyone who goes back to check it and put a notice on the page why they've done so. Why the need to read a blog article and send an email?
Congratulations, Jack. You won't regret it.
Unless the percentages off are incorrect, though, those who upgrade with this second chance receive a nicer percentage off than those who did from late November on. Scroll about halfway down the blog and you find that Starter is 15% off, Bronze is 20% off, and Silver through Portfolio are 25% off. It seems that another unintentional mistake has been made.
I agree, though, that Logos always tries to make things right. That has been my experience. I have never gotten the impression that Logos takes advantage of its customers.
I agree with that. Just reset the calculator for everyone. I think Logos wants to have a "personal connection" through a sales person to increase the likelihood of more sales.
I think this is great to own up instead of covering up these things. I am still waiting for my call/email response to see what kind of pricing I can get for the Diamond package (which I originally wanted). The difference between the Platinum and the Diamond at the time was outrageous at the time I upgraded (the 1st launch day).
I guess I just wonder why Logos doesn't reset the upgrade calculator for everyone who goes back to check it and put a notice on the page why they've done so. Why the need to read a blog article and send an email? I agree with that. Just reset the calculator for everyone. I think Logos wants to have a "personal connection" through a sales person to increase the likelihood of more sales.
I totaly agree! I will give them a call tomorrow to see if they can reset the whole thing and find out how much it would cost me to at least get silver or gold, if not I'll just stay with bronze though it was kind of expensive in spite of the fact I already owned several resources and Lange's. Oh well, if it works out fine ok if not ok. I gotta manage my finances better this year and sometimes getting just what you need is better than getting a package that contains several items you'll probably never use. Plus, I want an iPad with Retina to read what I already own...hehehe
Question: Does anybody know why the new iPad with Retina 16GB cost $499 when the previous generation 16GB now costs $399? Is it possible that the Retina will go down to $399 next year or late this year when the new one comes out? Just wondering to see if I should wait or not.
Thanks!
DAL
I think that Blog is more sales campaign than apology. Nothing wrong with a sales campaign, of course. I did not understand it to say that prices will be lower than the first time.
I upgraded to Diamond when the discounts were offered instead of Portfolio, and there still just isn't enough that I would use to justify Portfolio. No apology needed.
Apple doesn't typically lower prices… they bring in new products at the same price points. Technically, there have been four generations of the iPad, but the 3rd gen didn't last long, and the 4th gen is mostly a "bump" from the 3rd gen, with the biggest difference being the introduction of the new connector.
The third gen model was actually available in many places for $399 to try and liquidate them. You might want to check the Apple store website for refurbished and clearance models.
At the risk of being deemed a false prophet and being stoned to death, I will predict that the 4th gen model will go to the $399 price point when the 5th gen comes out. [:P]
Michael, the blog does not say that prices will be lower than the first time, but do you remember Platinum being offered at a 25% off discount, much less Silver or Gold? That's what the image in the blog post indicates the percentage off to be now. I expect it to change. That would put the second chance opportunity at a better discount than earlier adopters received, and I think that is an honest mistake (the image, that is).
Question: Does anybody know why the new iPad with Retina 16GB cost $499 when the previous generation 16GB now costs $399? Is it possible that the Retina will go down to $399 next year or late this year when the new one comes out? Just wondering to see if I should wait or not. Thanks! DAL
I bought a refurbished 3rd generation 32-GB iPad for $469, $130 off new. Some are still available online at the Apple Store. If it had not been in a refurbished box, you would not know it's not new.
Thanks guys for the answers on the iPad question. I'll look up for sales or clearance prices so I won't have to wait til next year for the Retina Display. I was checking out the iPad Mini and it's virtually the same as the iPad with Retina except for the A5 vs. A6x dual core thing and size. The mini has a little more extra than the iPad 2 -- so what to choose, I know not: iPad Mini with no Retina Display but easier to carry or spend a little extra for the iPad with Retina. We'll see!
I think that Blog is more sales campaign than apology. Nothing wrong with a sales campaign, of course. I did not understand it to say that prices will be lower than the first time. Michael, the blog does not say that prices will be lower than the first time, but do you remember Platinum being offered at a 25% off discount, much less Silver or Gold? That's what the image in the blog post indicates the percentage off to be now. I expect it to change. That would put the second chance opportunity at a better discount than earlier adopters received, and I think that is an honest mistake (the image, that is).
Bill, If you read the blog carefully, it is just showing the advantage that was available in upgrading directly from L4 to Diamond or Portfolio, as opposed to upgrading from L4 to L5 Gold (or whatever) and then upgrading again later to Diamond (or Portfolio). They are giving you a second chance at the original discount. That is all. Imagine the controversy if they were to give you a lower price than those who upgraded to Portfolio or Diamond in the original offer. That would be a mess up!
At least that is what I understood it to say.
I think that Blog is more sales campaign than apology. Nothing wrong with a sales campaign, of course. I did not understand it to say that prices will be lower than the first time. Michael, the blog does not say that prices will be lower than the first time, but do you remember Platinum being offered at a 25% off discount, much less Silver or Gold? That's what the image in the blog post indicates the percentage off to be now. I expect it to change. That would put the second chance opportunity at a better discount than earlier adopters received, and I think that is an honest mistake (the image, that is). Bill, If you read the blog carefully, it is just showing the advantage that was available in upgrading directly from L4 to Diamond or Portfolio, as opposed to upgrading from L4 to L5 Gold (or whatever) and then upgrading again later to Diamond (or Portfolio). They are giving you a second chance at the original discount. That is all. Imagine the controversy if they were to give you a lower price than those who upgraded to Portfolio or Diamond in the original offer. That would be a mess up! At least that is what I understood it to say.
Hi Michael. I agree with you as to the purpose of the blog and I think it's a great move on Logos' part. The thing I question is the discount percentages provided for those who now move directly from L4 to L5. When I did so in late November, the discount percentage for L5 Platinum was more like 15% or perhaps even 20%, if I recall correctly, but definitely not 25%.
Please do not read a rant in my pointing this out. Logos has always been very fair with me. My sales rep is the best: he deals with my penny-pinching haggling and comes back with an email smile! I'm sure the discount image in the blog is an inadvertent mistake. It would be interesting, though, to be able to reset my account to L4 Platinum and see how this discount worked out.
I just point this out because I don't want people to cry "bait and switch" if it gets changed. Folks are all too quick to charge Logos with unethical behavior.
Now--I have sermon prep to do. [:)]
Edit: I see that the discount percentages images have been removed. Another "mess" averted. [Y]
Initially I am very impressed that they had the guts to respond this way.
A nice gesture. It doesn't make up for the stress it caused, but it was nice.
I think this is great to own up instead of covering up these things.
[Y] +1
Edit: I see that the discount percentages images have been removed. Another "mess" averted.
[:O] +1
As for me, if they really wanted to apologize, they'd rebate the premium I paid to upgrade to Silver after 1st upgrading to Starter. (I'm not whining. I got good value from the choice I made with eyes open.) I'd love to go platinum, but I honestly can't afford to save any more. So I agree that "We Messed Up" is a step in the right direction, but it isn't so much an apology as great marketing.
I am very impressed that they had the guts to respond this way.
You dont think its just a sales pitch?
I am very impressed that they had the guts to respond this way. You dont think its just a sales pitch?
I'm not convinced that it isn't. After all Logos is a business and like any business it is always trying to think about ways to grow.
Yesterday I contacted sales by email and asked what the implication is for me personally. It will be interesting to see how they respond.
Were it merely a sales pitch, Logos didn't need to apologize. They could simply have announced that they had decided to extend the introductory sale on the L5 base packages.
There were definitely mess ups with the roll out of L5. Stuff happens. Apple Maps, anyone? [;)]
Hope you get a good deal, Bruce.
I would like to note that I meant nothing negative about Logos in any of my comments. There is nothing wrong with Logos having another sale. And I am sure the apology is sincere, and Logos regrets the confusion that took place.
Bill it was actually Bill Moore who pointed this out. You give me too much credit for analyzing the offer. [;)]
I thought that I would provide an update regarding my previous posts on this thread.
The Logos staff emailed me an offer to upgrade to Portfolio that I could not refuse. After discussing it with my wife we've decided to go ahead and accept their offer.
Thanks Logos!
I emailed the day after blog post, and aside from a canned response have yet to hear back from anyone in sales.
Neither have I. I'll see what happens Monday.
They must be swamped. I emailed the same day as the blog and it took until Saturday night for me to hear back from them. I'm sure that you will hear shortly.
I haven't even gotten the "canned response" after my request via e-mail. Maybe tomorrow. [:)]
I upgraded to Diamond on Nov. 1 and then Portfolio on Nov. 7. I didn't realize I would have saved going directly to Portfolio until the blog post. I emailed them and got a "sorry we can't help you." email. It seems like this is just a marketing ploy and not really an apology. An apology in my case would be a refund of the difference I paid and what I would have paid going directly to Portfolio. I would even take Logos credit. I love Logos but some of the things they have been doing lately are not sitting well with me.
I thought that I would provide an update regarding my previous posts on this thread. The Logos staff emailed me an offer to upgrade to Portfolio that I could not refuse. After discussing it with my wife we've decided to go ahead and accept their offer. Thanks Logos!
Ah! Welcome to Port Folio! As a member of "the family" [;)] you will now be privy to many more Logos offers "that you can't refuse". Enjoy your stay!
...and remember--never speak ill of the family. [:#]
Don't take that email as the final answer, Alan. Your situation sounds exactly what the blog says Logos will make right. Give sales a call and give them a chance to make it right.
I thought that I would provide an update regarding my previous posts on this thread. The Logos staff emailed me an offer to upgrade to Portfolio that I could not refuse. After discussing it with my wife we've decided to go ahead and accept their offer. Thanks Logos! Ah! Welcome to Port Folio! As a member of "the family" you will now be privy to many more Logos offers "that you can't refuse". Enjoy your stay! ...and remember--never speak ill of the family.
Ah! Welcome to Port Folio! As a member of "the family" you will now be privy to many more Logos offers "that you can't refuse". Enjoy your stay!
...and remember--never speak ill of the family.
What have I got myself into? [:O]
I upgraded to Diamond on Nov. 1 and then Portfolio on Nov. 7. I didn't realize I would have saved going directly to Portfolio until the blog post. I emailed them and got a "sorry we can't help you." email. It seems like this is just a marketing ploy and not really an apology. An apology in my case would be a refund of the difference I paid and what I would have paid going directly to Portfolio. I would even take Logos credit. I love Logos but some of the things they have been doing lately are not sitting well with me. Don't take that email as the final answer, Alan. Your situation sounds exactly what the blog says Logos will make right. Give sales a call and give them a chance to make it right.
When did you email them to ask? If it was before the apology blog I would encourage you to give it a try again.
Here's a better sales pitch- and one that works for all of us-
"if you have Portfolio, and have $20k invested in Logos- you receive an automatic 25% all resources, and pre-pub pricing remains in effect for a lifetime."
Just think how many would upgrade to Portfolio and try to reach the 20k threshold to have those deals:)
I see few things in Portfolio that are not in the Diamond package that I would want. At least not enough to pay the difference, or anything close to the difference. (Of course I have bought some of the resources exclusive to the Portfolio already, and that may be a factor in my opinion about what is left.)
I would like to know what is exclusive Portfolio that would move others to buy it. I guess I am asking to "sold" on Portfolio, because I just can't see it now even with the new discount.
Despite my argumentative nature, [;)] I promise not argue with anyone about their opinions. I'd just like to consider what you think, not try to change your mind. In fact, I won't even comment, but I'd like your opinion.
Diamond gave me just about all I wanted. I will save the money from the Portfolio upgrade and by stuff I will actually use...over time of course. I dont need more books that Im not going to read, I have enough of them in Diamond. [8-|]
I don't know ... to the uninitiated 'Diamond' means what? Now everyone KNOWS what 'Portfolio' means. (You've arrived.)
Most people I know think I "arrived" when they see how much Diamond cost...namely my Wife! [:D]
One thing that I have to keep reminding myself is that it is difficult to compare one person's situation to another because each person's resources differ. One person may have resources that another does not. Of course this will impact the price each person will pay.
I can only speak from my perspective. The top 10 Portfolio resources that attracted me are:
It cost me $1,000 more to go to from Diamond to Portfolio and these 10 resources alone are valued at over $4,000. Of course no one would pay that much for them even in Logos but it still is significant. In addition there were many less expensive books that I was interested in that I didn't include. My library is now far more extensive and useful for research.
Finally I should mention that my wife was in full support of doing this as we discussed the opportunity and the purchase fit our personal life-stage and life-circumstances.
I'm not saying this to justify my purchase but rather to provide a full answer to your question. I hope it helps.
I upgraded to Diamond on Nov. 1 and then Portfolio on Nov. 7. I didn't realize I would have saved going directly to Portfolio until the blog post. I emailed them and got a "sorry we can't help you." email. It seems like this is just a marketing ploy and not really an apology. An apology in my case would be a refund of the difference I paid and what I would have paid going directly to Portfolio. I would even take Logos credit. I love Logos but some of the things they have been doing lately are not sitting well with me. Don't take that email as the final answer, Alan. Your situation sounds exactly what the blog says Logos will make right. Give sales a call and give them a chance to make it right. When did you email them to ask? If it was before the apology blog I would encourage you to give it a try again.
I emailed them because of the blog post. I guess I will have to call them tomorrow.
WHY GET PORTFOLIO?
To be honest, I almost settled for Diamond. I agree that the resources offered above Diamond are anemic for the most part. The so-called "big plums" are actually "big turkeys" in my estimation.
Things I wanted:
Davidson's Hebrew Grammar, Exposition of Ephesians, Thayer's Lexicon, More Light on the Path, the JSNTS collection on the Gospels and to a much lesser extent the one on Paul.
The Gospels collection is solid Biblical examination, but the Paul colleciton seems a lot more like ivory tower intellectual noodling. Even though I wanted Thayer's, mainly because it is a commonly quoted resource, it is an old and dated resource and some of its conclusions have been by-passed. I personally consider devotionals to be the pablum of Bible resources, but MLP is unique in that it provides one Hebrew and one Greek verse to translate each day, which is a useful exercise. Davidson's grammar is a useful resource, but still just a grammar, and I do have others. Nothing here is "awesome", even though I wanted to have them.
These things together pretty much made up the difference in price (at regular prices) between Diamond and Portfolio for me, since I already had L4 Portfolio. So I basically said, "everything else is a gimme", even though I consider much of it wasted hard drive space.
Honestly, I feel like Logos ought to feel ASHAMED for offering such a lousy set of resources for their top-tier package. You would think that they would want to make Portfolio the envy of all Bible software. Well, all I can say is that some of the stuff they added to it just plain stinks. From my perspective, it seems a whole lot more like they decided to pad Portfolio with packages that they have a hard time selling otherwise.
Probably the worst of all is the Near Eastern History Collection. This is a stink bomb...ugh! Logos can sell whatever they want, but people buy the software (and especially the base packages) because it is BIBLE software. This collection barely even gives a nod to the Bible. A far, far, far better choice for the Logos flagship would have been the Continuum Near Eastern History Collection. This collection actually mentions the Bible...imagine that! It's a little more expensive, sure, but considering some of the lackluster backfill that is in Portfolio, offering this is the least they could have done.
Other things I'm not happy with include:
20th Century Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (Wha?)
Baker Evangelical Dictionary of Christian Education (Huh?)
Handbook of Evangelical Theologians (Meh...)
These three items constitute the bulk of what was new to L5 and unique to Portfolio.
ARE YOU KIDDING ME????????
To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I question whether it was a good deal to get Portfolio. The answer, of course, is that it wasn't a good deal. It was a mediocre deal, at best. But I still think that it was the best opportunity to get some of the resources I wanted and likely wouldn't get otherwise unless they were part of some discounted package. The problem is that the "deal" was so strained and belabored with fluff and dullness that I almost didn't get it. The thing that most irritates me is just the idea that I would have to so closely weigh and debate my decision. When I saw the L4 Portfolio, I knew in an instant I was going to get it, no question whatsoever...and it was the best deal I ever got. The L5 Portfolio has me constantly asking myself if I did the right thing...or not.
There were literally only about 20 items above Diamond that were unique to me in Portfolio--and the majority of those were of almost no consequence.
Logos could AND SHOULD have included some other items in Portfolio that would have made it a no-brainer. In my opinion, 3-6 additional quality items could have made Portfolio a flagship package to be proud of. Instead it borders on being an EMBARRASSMENT. [:$]
I'm not sure how Logos chooses the resources for the different packages, but I wonder if they were told "no" by the publisher for some of the resources / collections they wanted to include?
WHY GET PORTFOLIO? To be honest, the more I think about it, the more I question whether it was a good deal to get Portfolio. The answer, of course, is that it wasn't a good deal. It was a mediocre deal, at best. But I still think that it was the best opportunity to get some of the resources I wanted and likely wouldn't get otherwise unless they were part of some discounted package. The problem is that the "deal" was so strained and belabored with fluff and dullness that I almost didn't get it. The thing that most irritates me is just the idea that I would have to so closely weigh and debate my decision. When I saw the L4 Portfolio, I knew in an instant I was going to get it, no question whatsoever...and it was the best deal I ever got. The L5 Portfolio has me constantly asking myself if I did the right thing...or not. There were literally only about 20 items above Diamond that were unique to me in Portfolio--and the majority of those were of almost no consequence. Logos could AND SHOULD have included some other items in Portfolio that would have made it a no-brainer. In my opinion, 3-6 additional quality items could have made Portfolio a flagship package to be proud of. Instead it borders on being an EMBARRASSMENT.
Logos could AND SHOULD have included some other items in Portfolio that would have made it a no-brainer. In my opinion, 3-6 additional quality items could have made Portfolio a flagship package to be proud of. Instead it borders on being an EMBARRASSMENT.
Perhaps next time you could tell us how you really feel. [:S]
Oh, no doubt...but with a resource stable as large as Logos's, you don't just quit. There are many little nuggets they could have tossed in to make Portfolio ATTRACTIVE instead of homely.
I was surprised you chose Asherah over Anat. Asherah is so post-modern.
Speaking of Cassuto (by way of reference), if Logos had included the Magnes Press Hebrew Bible Collection in Portfolio this time around, I doubt I would have felt cause to go on my little rant. That is a quality collection. It is by far a better set of Cassuto titles than the one you mention from the Near Eastern History Collection. Derp. [^o)]
Btw, that's the first time I've ever felt compelled to use that word.
Yeah, Michael, precisely. It's a marketing gimic.
Derpy Hooves was certainly a cutie.
I would like to know what is exclusive Portfolio that would move others to buy it. I guess I am asking to "sold" on Portfolio, because I just can't see it now even with the new discount. One thing that I have to keep reminding myself is that it is difficult to compare one person's situation to another because each person's resources differ. One person may have resources that another does not. Of course this will impact the price each person will pay. I can only speak from my perspective. The top 10 Portfolio resources that attracted me are: Lloyd Jones Exposition of Ephesians (8 vols.) @ $140 Jewish Law @ $400 Near Eastern History @ $400 Sheffield/T & T Clark Bible Guides Collection (44 vols.) @ $850 Gnostic & Apocryphal Studies Collection (10 vols.)@ $650 Library of NT Studies: JSNTS on Paul (17 vols.)@ $450 Library of NT Studies: JSNTS on the Gospels and Acts (16 vols.) @ $300 Studies in New Testament Greek and JSNTS Collection (17 vols.)@ $396 Lexham Discourse Greek New Testament Bundle (6 vols.)@ $150 Roy Gingrich’s Commentaries in Outline Form (100 vols.) @ $280 It cost me $1,000 more to go to from Diamond to Portfolio and these 10 resources alone are valued at over $4,000. Of course no one would pay that much for them even in Logos but it still is significant. In addition there were many less expensive books that I was interested in that I didn't include. My library is now far more extensive and useful for research. Finally I should mention that my wife was in full support of doing this as we discussed the opportunity and the purchase fit our personal life-stage and life-circumstances. I'm not saying this to justify my purchase but rather to provide a full answer to your question. I hope it helps.
Thanks, Bruce. That is very helpful.
I'm glad it was helpful Michael even though there obviously others who do not agree with my perspective.
