Topics Improved
Topics is much improved in the Passage Guide.
It makes sense and I see where the topics are coming from and where I can go to get more info.
Not sure why the "Key topic" is not part of the "collage." Not personally enamored with the brickyard layout of the collage, but it is fine and works.
Thanks, Logos.
Chris
Comments
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Chris...
I actually like the funky-ness of the topic graphic....pretty cool....(for windows users)
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
I actually like the funky-ness of the topic graphic....pretty cool....(for windows users)
It's funky - it's cool. But, I find it almost unreadable and there are real problems in the Hebrew font...
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I'm a fan of the new way topics are displayed as well - But I'm having a hard time getting the point of "interesting words."
All I get when I click on a word is the verse that it is from? Is that what it is suppose to do? Since it is in the "passage" guide I obviously know what passage the word is from[:)]
Do I have somethings set up wrong? I would expect the words to be linked to my Bible dictionaries or something not my default Bible.
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Greg, how come yours is readable? Mine looks like this:
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Damian McGrath said:
Greg, how come yours is readable? Mine looks like this:
Good question. As I resize the passage guide tab, I get a different layout each time I run the guide. When I returned the tab to the origional size I had it I got this:
Either way the layout displays - I find I can easily distinguish the words.
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I have to disagree. It is pretty much unusable for me.
1) Light text on a light background. Why does Logos insist on making things unreadable. This is a text based result. If you are going to do this, just print white text on a white background. That way you could say you are done instantly. It would provide the same benefit.
2) Text running in multiple directions. Just print horizontal text. If I want the text to be vertical, I can always turn my monitor 90 degrees or lay my head down on my desk.
3) Text running over other text.
4) Text so small as to be unreadable unless the guide is opened up in a large window.
Things like this are ill considered. I pretty much cannot make out any words on the following collage.
If you insist on having this let users turn off the collage and have a text list like before.
In the next example, there is actually a word after "love". How is this supposed to be useful? This is really bad.
Regards,
Clinton
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Clinton Thomas said:
In the next example, there is actually a word after "love". How is this supposed to be useful? This is really bad.
On the small fonts. No text display should be smaller than the font size I have specified in my preferences.I have set that size to be something I can see. In the above example 3 out of the 4 words displayed are smaller than that setting.
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It looks like something I should show to a child - try and find the words.
Sorry but [N] [N] [N] [N] [N]
Suggestion - have the colours and readable font in a normal horizontal format.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave,
The thing is...it's visually creative, but is it "serious bible exegesis" sort of material?
that's the question that someone asked that I keep coming back to...what does V4 want to be?
1.) A serious study tool so those who use "that other unnamed bible software" for "serious exegetical" work won't feel the need nor have to...
OR
2.) A pretty good tool that's all things to all people...?
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Or Robert can it try to be both a serious tool and a creative one? I think it can do both. Give us a stock standard topics tool in the system defined passage guide AND give us the ability to add a "wordle" like output if we want it for a graphic. I don't mind the fun stuff but don't take away the serious...
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Robert Pavich said:
1.) A serious study tool so those who use "that other unnamed bible software" for "serious exegetical" work won't feel the need nor have to...
OR
2.) A pretty good tool that's all things to all people...?
One thing that I have to keep reminding myself - today's students are much more visually oriented than my generation. My college text books did not have full color pictures and didn't weigh 10 pounds each (okay, I exagerate). Although I was forced by my job to be an early adopter of cell phones (more convenient than a pager) when I get a new phone I still give some icons a blank stare. I resort to grandchildren or the manual (how embarassing). Don't ask me to guess which visual presentations will be accepted as "serious study tools" vs. those that will be archaic early 21st century curiosities. I doubt very much that Logos developed the visualizations; I suspect they simply plugged in to pre-existing software. I would further guess that the pre-existing software provides features we depend on as well as some of the 'fluff". Until it affects performance or maintenability, let the programmers' have a bit of fun with gee-whiz features.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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How did you get your computer info to appear below your name on the post? A seriously creative question or is it creatively serious question.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Damian, Martha,
Yes...or give the option to do either...I'm good with that...
Martha...it's my signature; just put that extra in your signature block, that way when you report a bug, you don't have to include that info! It's for lazy people!
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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MJ. Smith said:
How did you get your computer info to appear below your name on the post? A seriously creative question or is it creatively serious question.
Martha,
At the top of the page (right side) you should see your login name, edit and sign out.
Go into edit and then select "site options"
Part way down the screen is Signature.
Enter data there and it always appears at the end of your posts.
Chris
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Damian McGrath said:
Or Robert can it try to be both a serious tool and a creative one? I think it can do both. Give us a stock standard topics tool in the system defined passage guide AND give us the ability to add a "wordle" like output if we want it for a graphic. I don't mind the fun stuff but don't take away the serious...
LOL with your avatar, Damian, what you are saying only seems to be fun!
But yea, let's have an option for the kid graphics and proper text.
Dave
===Windows 11 & Android 13
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Dave Hooton said:
LOL with your avatar, Damian, what you are saying only seems to be fun!
I know. I said that it was only a 24 hour Avatar, but I'm not yet ready to let it go.
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I'm not sure Topics is an improvement.
Word clouds are intended to visually demonstrate prominence and frequency of data, so the Important Words pane is an ideal application of it.
Topics does not, to my mind, benefit from this approach as the underlying data are not related to frequency or count.
An all-horizontal diagram would also be better.
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Greg Gray said:
In interesting words, the different sizes of words imply that some words are more common in the passage or more important that others. In version 3 they used different word sizes to show the relative frequency of various translations of a Greek or Hebrew word. I had assumed this was the case here, but I tried it for a single verse and the words vary in size, even though they all are used one time. In order for a graphical display to be meaningful and not just pretty there should be some logic to the arrangement of words and the sizes of words.
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Harry Hahne said:
there should be some logic to the arrangement of words and the sizes of words
There is - the computer is simply following a detailed algorithm. However, just like compare versions the algorithm has not been shared with us.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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MJ. Smith said:Harry Hahne said:
there should be some logic to the arrangement of words and the sizes of words
There is - the computer is simply following a detailed algorithm. However, just like compare versions the algorithm has not been shared with us.
It is clearly not frequency of words in the passage, since the one of the most common words in the verse I am looking at ("God") is not even included. Nor does it seem to be based on frequency in the New Testament, since very common words can be very small or large. The visual layout of the translations in the Bible Word Study in version 3 communicates relative frequency of translation through the word size, which is useful information.
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I had always assumed -- rightly or wrongly -- that Interesting Words follow an algorithm similar to Amazon.com's "Statistically Improbable Phrase" (SIP) -- http://www.amazon.com/gp/search-inside/sipshelp.html/ref=sib_sip_help
So, my understanding -- again, could be completely off base -- is that if two words both appear only once in a passage, the one that occurs less frequently in the rest of the Bible (or the rest of the library?) would get a larger display size, because it is more "statistically significant."
Would be curious if Team Logos could confirm or refute this theory...
Peter
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I guess the whole "important words" thing is lost on me....
I just don't get it.
Because a word is used a lot doesn't mean it has any importance....nor does lack of use say anything either...
I just don't see how this whole idea is valuable... [:$]
Robert Pavich
For help go to the Wiki: http://wiki.logos.com/Table_of_Contents__
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Robert Pavich said:
I just don't see how this whole idea is valuable...
Where I have seen it applied usefully is in studies relating to dating or indicating authorship. It is part of a whole collection of text analysis that has expanded its use dramatical with computer text analysis tools - an area in which I can display a great deal of ignorance.
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Chris Elford said:
Not sure why the "Key topic" is not part of the "collage."
I haven't actually seen the new presentation yet, but the reason for separating "key topics" out is that they were manually selected, hence higher quality (and therefore there are also relatively few of them). By contrast, the other topics are automatically dervied from dictionary content.
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PeterLi said:
So, my understanding -- again, could be completely off base -- is that if two words both appear only once in a passage, the one that occurs less frequently in the rest of the Bible (or the rest of the library?) would get a larger display size, because it is more "statistically significant."
Peter:
Without going into the fine details of the algorithm, at a conceptual level you're correct: it's comparing local frequencies (within the passage) to those outside the passage.
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Clinton Thomas said:
Text so small as to be unreadable unless the guide is opened up in a large window.
One idea that would help view small topics would be for the software to show the topic in a balloon window if you hover over the word/phrase, much like it does for abbreviations and Bible verses in various reference books.
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Harry Hahne said:
if you hover over the word/phrase
Hi,
I completely disagree with a user having to do this.
A user should not have to do anything to view the primary data that is returned by a tool (maybe scroll if there is too much of it to display on one screen).
If the user wants more inofrmation, then hovering over a piece of information should bring it up, but to have the primary data be a random scratch that is too faint to read, or too small to read, is not right.
Llike the wordle website says, 'wordle is a toy'
Regards,
Clinton
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Anyone know where I can go to get a more detailed explanation (help site) of how I can use the topics (in its current graphics format) and interesting words?
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Clinton Thomas said:
A user should not have to do anything to view the primary data that is returned by a tool (maybe scroll if there is too much of it to display on one screen).
I've been mulling this over as a minor fan of the wordle. It reminds me of my first introduction to a data mining tool whose diagrams reminded me of drawings with the spirograph toy - or a swinging pendulum. I slowly learned to "read" the diagram to see how breaks in the pattern were where I needed to drill down to see "real" information. Over time I gained an ability to "read" the diagram at a glance and "know" when to move on and when to dig.
It seems to me that the same thing holds true for some of the Logos graphics. To me, the prepositions chart is actually the least "readable" - but I know that is because I don't yet know how to "read" it. My point is that any "new visualization" we need to give a chance. What appears meaningless may become intuitive and useful. It's all in the communication
Orthodox Bishop Alfeyev: "To be a theologian means to have experience of a personal encounter with God through prayer and worship."; Orthodox proverb: "We know where the Church is, we do not know where it is not."
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Damian McGrath said:
Greg, how come yours is readable? Mine looks like this:
Damian, maybe it has to do with the varying degrees of gravitational pull between where you are and Logos HQ [:P]?
In Christ,
Ken
Lenovo Yoga 7 15ITL5 Touch Screen; 11th Gen Intel i7 2.8Ghz; 12Gb RAM; 500Gb SDD;WIN 11
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