NA 28 with apparatus
Will it be morph tagged like the na 27 with apparatus? The UBS 4th with apparatus is not.
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Trying to catch your drift. Since there's a UBS4 with morphology, you want the morphology and apparatus in the same volume?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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With the na 27 the morphology and apparatus is in one volume. I'm asking if the na 28 will be the same. With the UBS 4th, the apparatus edition is not morphologically tagged. (yes I know there is a separate morph tagged 4th but it lacks the apparatus)
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The NA28 in Logos 5 has no apparatus, but it is morphologically tagged.
The NA27 with apparatus is morphologically tagged, so I assume that when NA28 with apparatus comes, it will also be morphologically tagged.
Does anyone know when NA28 with apparatus is coming?
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elnwood said:
The NA28 in Logos 5 has no apparatus, but it is morphologically tagged.
The NA27 with apparatus is morphologically tagged, so I assume that when NA28 with apparatus comes, it will also be morphologically tagged.
Does anyone know when NA28 with apparatus is coming?
It will be a while since the bar is hardly marked at all.
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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George Somsel said:
It will be a while since the bar is hardly marked at all.
George, thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed it.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I find it difficult to believe that many of those who purchased the rather expensive NA27 with critical apparatus would want to pay 70 more dollars for the NA28 with critical apparatus. Surely there is not extensive new material or changes.
I wonder if they'll offer a cheaper 'upgrade' price for those who own the older NA27 resources.
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Yes, George ... thank you!! I immediately signed up.
Actually all I want is the apparatus; it turns out you can buy the apparatus for $50 by itself.
I'm signed up for both since I don't know how the pre-pub accounts for just the apparatus.
This is the first time that's been possible (buying just the apparatus)!
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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DMB said:
Actually all I want is the apparatus; it turns out you can buy the apparatus for $50 by itself.
Thanks for pointing that out. Only $20 more to get the text is a real deal for those who didn't upgrade to the NA28 with L5.
Its a bit hidden on the pre-pub page. I'd suggest Logos make it more easy to find and have a separate pre-pub listing for the apparatus.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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DMB said:
Actually all I want is the apparatus; it turns out you can buy the apparatus for $50 by itself.
Does the apparatus by itself mean a resource containing that apparatus but no text or does it give a resource containing the text with apparatus for those who already own the NA28?
I note that for NA27 I have it three times: once without apparatus, once with apparatus and text combined and one resource that just contains the apparatus without the text. I haven't figured out what to use the latter for.
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I hope it has text and apparatus combinded, however I have a feeling its going to be apparatus w/out text. Im happy to be wrong on that assumption though.
For book reviews and more visit sojotheo.com
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John M. Kight said:
I have a feeling its going to be apparatus w/out text
Feelings, are often deceiving. Take a look at this page: http://www.logos.com/product/29980/nestle-aland-greek-new-testament-28th-edition-with-critical-apparatus
The heading states that it is the: Nestle-Aland Greek NT 28th edition with critical apparatus leading one to conclude there will actually be two items included.
If, one reads on he/she will also notice that one may also pre-order the critical apparatus by it's self by simply clicking on another link. Another, link would not be necessary if the first page were actually offering only the apparatus, right?
חַפְּשׂוּ בַּתּוֹרָה הֵיטֵב וְאַל תִּסְתַּמְּכוּ עַל דְּבָרַי
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Relative to BriM's question, the apparatus separately is most useful if you're not a mouseover person. So also, my notes which are maintained similar to a separate apparatus resource (over several years, many verses can end up with 30-40 notes due to connects to other notes).
But more significantly having a stack of apparatus visually available is more useful due to the multiple editors picking and choosing what they decide should be shown / noted among the versions.
That's one reason why von Soden is valued (though exactly a century earlier, and the Logos version having the apparatus?): http://www.logos.com/product/15705/von-soden-greek-new-testament
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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$69.95 pre-pub for NA-28 + apparatus
$49.95 for the NA-28 apparatus alone (not a pre-pub - it goes directly to the checkout page - that link wasn't working last night when I tried, but it is now).
Optimistically Egalitarian (Galatians 3:28)
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Mark Smith said:George Somsel said:
It will be a while since the bar is hardly marked at all.
George, thanks for pointing that out. I completely missed it.
Somehow I missed this too. Thanks.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Eric Weiss said:
. . . not a pre-pub - it goes directly to the checkout page . . .
It does appear to be immediately available. Perhaps, someone from Logos can clarify?
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I clicked on it. This was the email:
Your Pre-Pub Order from Logos.com
Order Date: 1/30/2013
Thank you for placing a pre-order for Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 28th Edition, Critical Apparatus.I wasn't sure how my pre-pub vote would count, so I also ordered the combined one too. Notice the slight wording difference:
Your Pre-Pub Order from Logos.com
Order Date: 1/30/2013
Thank you for placing a pre-order for Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 28th Edition, with Critical Apparatus."If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I've not phrased my question very well.
From the sample page of NA28 with apparatus, it looks like this is one resource containing text and apparatus combined.
The product description page gives a link for those who already have NA28 text to get the apparatus. My question really is whether this would give me the single resource containing text and apparatus combined or a separate apparatus only? Unfortunately, there is no page preview for the cheaper resource - it just goes straight to the order dialogue.
If it's apparatus-only then why is it only for those who already have the NA28 text? DMB seems to be saying that the apparatus has value in it's own right. Presumably some people would want to order both pre-pubs?
DMB said:That's one reason why von Soden is valued
OK. I've bid on von Soden.
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BriM said:
From the sample page of NA28 with apparatus, it looks like this is one resource containing text and apparatus combined.
these sample pages are from the print edition and in no way indicative for the question of one or two resources. My take is: two of them, since Logos has a separate type for apparatus resources, and IIRC it's the same with NA27.
BriM said:The product description page gives a link for those who already have NA28 text to get the apparatus. My question really is whether this would give me the single resource containing text and apparatus combined or a separate apparatus only?
Of course this would give you the apparatus only, otherwise you'd get the same product as those who order text and apparatus. Many have the text already from the base packages.
BriM said:If it's apparatus-only then why is it only for those who already have the NA28 text? DMB seems to be saying that the apparatus has value in it's own right. Presumably some people would want to order both pre-pubs?
I can imagine people doing this for speed of delivery reasons (and subsequently cancelling the second order prior to shipment). The apparatus imho probably won't work well with another Greek NT text (maybe NA27 is an exception), since the idea of the apparatus is to show the alternative options the producers of the text did not choose.
Have joy in the Lord!
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Hi folks
NB.Mick said:BriM said:From the sample page of NA28 with apparatus, it looks like this is one resource containing text and apparatus combined.
these sample pages are from the print edition and in no way indicative for the question of one or two resources. My take is: two of them, since Logos has a separate type for apparatus resources, and IIRC it's the same with NA27.
This is my understanding right now:
There will be two resources, one for NA28 with apparatus markers, the other for the apparatus. I *believe* that if you have the NA28 already, then you just need to go for the apparatus only. This means (again, as I understand it currently) that we will be updating the NA28 that already exists (so, "yes" to the "does it include morph tagging?" question) to include apparatus markers. These will be links (data type links) to the apparatus resource, just like we currently have with the NA27 and apparatus that was originally available as part of the SESB.
We treat the apparatus as a separate resource because there is value to seeing multiple notes at once; tracing how a passage is represented in the 'consistently cited' witnesses used by NA.
If you do actually use the apparatus of NA27, and find it useful, I'd recommend thinking about NA28. The apparatus (not just in the catholic epistles) has been extensively revised and some ways of presenting information have been changed to make the information much more clear. I did a short blog post on my personal blog going over the sorts of things the front matter of NA28 indicated as changed; if you're on the fence, it could be helpful: http://www.supakoo.com/rick/ricoblog/2012/12/02/NA28WhatTheFrontMatterSaysAboutTheEdition.aspx
Rick Brannan
Data Wrangler, Faithlife
My books in print0 -
A (somewhat) related question regarding the sample pages from the print edition at http://www.logos.com/product/29980/nestle-aland-greek-new-testament-28th-edition-with-critical-apparatus: will the Biblical cross references appear in the new edition?
The cross references in the print edition and in the SESB edition of GNT4 are very handy. It would be great to have them immediately accessible in the new edition.
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Spoke to sales and this is what I understood.
the NA28 from the base packages is morphologically tagged.
but the NA28 from prepub with the apparatus is not morphologically tagged.
if you buy the apparatus only then it is releasing the feature in the same resource so these will not show up as seperate books
גַּם־חֹשֶׁךְ֮ לֹֽא־יַחְשִׁ֪יךְ מִ֫מֶּ֥ךָ וְ֭לַיְלָה כַּיּ֣וֹם יָאִ֑יר כַּ֝חֲשֵׁיכָ֗ה כָּאוֹרָֽה
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John Goodman said:
Spoke to sales and this is what I understood.
the NA28 from the base packages is morphologically tagged.
but the NA28 from prepub with the apparatus is not morphologically tagged.
if you buy the apparatus only then it is releasing the feature in the same resource so these will not show up as seperate books
That for letting us know. I have already pre-ordered mine and was hoping it would just be incorporated. I assume it will be like the NA27.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:John Goodman said:
Spoke to sales and this is what I understood.
the NA28 from the base packages is morphologically tagged.
but the NA28 from prepub with the apparatus is not morphologically tagged.
if you buy the apparatus only then it is releasing the feature in the same resource so these will not show up as seperate books
That for letting us know. I have already pre-ordered mine and was hoping it would just be incorporated. I assume it will be like the NA27.
I've asked for this to be clarified, both internally at Logos and also on the prepub page. Hopefully the page will be cleared up soon.
Item 1: The NA28 in the prepub will be morphologically tagged. It will have the same resource identifier as the existing NA28 (in some packages). Thus, if you already have the NA28 in a package, that NA28 will be updated with apparatus markers which will serve as links into the apparatus. If you do not have the apparatus, the links will not be fully functional, but they will still be there.
Item 2: There will only be one NA28. So there isn't a version with the prepub, and a version in some of the Logos 5 package configurations. They will be the same. So if you don't have NA28 in a package, and buy the NA28 text with the apparatus, you will end up with a morphologically analyzed text. It will be the same exact resource as in the packages, you will simply have an individual license instead of a license as a result of the package/collection purchase.
Item 3: If you buy apparatus only, it will be a separate resource. The config/setup is pretty much exactly like the NA27 with apparatus that we presently sell, listed here: http://www.logos.com/product/17655/na27-with-critical-apparatus
Hopefully this helps clarify some of the muddy areas of this particular prepub.
Rick Brannan | Bluesky: rickbrannan.com
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Steve Maling said:
A (somewhat) related question regarding the sample pages from the print edition at http://www.logos.com/product/29980/nestle-aland-greek-new-testament-28th-edition-with-critical-apparatus: will the Biblical cross references appear in the new edition?
Hi Steve.
I don't believe the marginal data (cross-references, eusebian canons, ammonian sections, etc.) will be in the NA28. The print edition is the best analog available for showing the text and apparatus, hence its use on the page.
Rick Brannan | Bluesky: rickbrannan.com
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Thanks for replying, Rick,
but shucky darn on the decision not to include the cross references in some fashion. (By "in some fashion" I'm thinking of the mouse-over references in the GNT4 with apparatus, for instance).
Bottom line, I keep reminding myself to be grateful for all that Logos provides beyond my imagining, rather than fussing about what I can imagine that hasn't appeared yet[:D].
Peace be with the entire Logos tribe in Bellingham, Phoenix, South Africa, the UK, and anywhere else about which I haven't learned.
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Are the textual references (in the left and right margins in the printed editions) included in the Logos digital edition? My research work would greatly profit by having them available in Logos.
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For some reason, Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 28th Edition, Critical Apparatus seems to have been dropped from the list of product offerings.
The link http://www.logos.com/product/29981/nestle-aland-greek-new-testament-28th-edition-critical-apparatus does not work anymore.
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Lee said:
For some reason, Nestle-Aland Greek New Testament, 28th Edition, Critical Apparatus seems to have been dropped from the list of product offerings.
The link is: https://www.logos.com/product/29980/nestle-aland-greek-new-testament-28th-edition-with-critical-apparatus
Rick Brannan | Bluesky: rickbrannan.com
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I was not referring with the NA28 Text plus Critical Apparatus, but the NA28 Critical Apparatus sans text, which I had ordered on pre-pub. The link I cited used to work.
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Lee said:
I was not referring with the NA28 Text plus Critical Apparatus, but the NA28 Critical Apparatus sans text, which I had ordered on pre-pub. The link I cited used to work.
I'd like a clarification on the issue here, too. My "Orders" page still has my order for this resource. But because the link now yields a "product not found" error, the item is not a hyperlink on my orders page.
What's going on with this resource? Is it no longer going to be made available for those who got the NA28 right away?
Donnie
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This is interesting, since the behavior of the 'apparatus-buy-buttton' (on the NA28 pre-pub page) works the same as before when I ordered. I never did see a literal apparatus pre-pub page. But I guess there was one?
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Seems there was.
The yellow box on 29980 (NA28 plus apparatus, Prepub $69.95) "The existing NA28 in base packages will be updated to include apparatus markers. Already have the text and want the apparatus? The NA28 apparatus is available on Pre-Pub!" puts the apparatus as #29981 into the shopping cart ($49.95), but the link of the product leads back to a nonexistent site.
But from as it works now, it seems those who want only the apparatus without paying again for the text will get it. But no separate PrePub (maybe Logos took it away to avoid people putting in two bids).
Have joy in the Lord!
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Came across NA26 with aparatus at a church garage sale this week... Paid .06 $ for it.
I barely know any greek (and considering what I knew, I learned in 2001..) but this has rekindled in me a desire to read the bible in the original languages. Someday. Some of it comes right back... But the paradigms are still headache inducing.
Also, back on topic - I placed a pre-pub order for na-28 with apparatus.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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abondservant said:
But the paradigms are still headache inducing.
There is a solution to that which I call a "kephalectomy"—no head, no headache ! [;)]
george
gfsomselיְמֵי־שְׁנוֹתֵינוּ בָהֶם שִׁבְעִים שָׁנָה וְאִם בִּגְבוּרֹת שְׁמוֹנִים שָׁנָה וְרָהְבָּם עָמָל וָאָוֶן
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Josh said:
I find it difficult to believe that many of those who purchased the rather expensive NA27 with critical apparatus would want to pay 70 more dollars for the NA28 with critical apparatus. Surely there is not extensive new material or changes.
I wonder if they'll offer a cheaper 'upgrade' price for those who own the older NA27 resources.
My understanding is that the NA28 apparatus only covers changes in the catholic epistles. Changes to the rest of the NT will come in future editions. What I don't know is if the NA28 apparatus ALSO includes the apparatus material from NA27 for the non-catholic epistles (gospels, acts, paul). I certainly hope it does. I don't want to buy both (27 & 28)...I would very likely end up buying neither.
As far as changes, the "biggie" is from Jude 5 where it says that Yeishuu`a (Iesous) saved and destroyed in the Exodus account rather than "the Lord". Of course, some English Bibles, such as NET, already reflect this revised perception of the mss.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
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This post might help: http://evangelicaltextualcriticism.blogspot.com/2013/02/presentation-of-na28-sbl-chicago.html
The entire apparatus has been revised. The NA28 apparatus covers every NT book. In the catholic epistles the apparatus sigla work slightly differently. Most people probably won't notice. The text itself only changed in the catholic epistles.
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NB.Mick said:
Seems there was.
The yellow box on 29980 (NA28 plus apparatus, Prepub $69.95) "The existing NA28 in base packages will be updated to include apparatus markers. Already have the text and want the apparatus? The NA28 apparatus is available on Pre-Pub!" puts the apparatus as #29981 into the shopping cart ($49.95), but the link of the product leads back to a nonexistent site.
But from as it works now, it seems those who want only the apparatus without paying again for the text will get it. But no separate PrePub (maybe Logos took it away to avoid people putting in two bids).
Okay, now I'm confused. I already placed a pre-pub order for this but are you saying that I don't need to do this now?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Greetings, Rick,
Many thanks for your reply last February. Here is my revised suggestion, which I have submitted to suggest@logos.com in slightly different form.
It would be great to have all the “front matter” and “back matter” in the print edition of Nestle-Aland 28 included in the forthcoming digital edition.
In particular, it would be especially great to include Appendix IV, “Loci Citati vel Allegati”. This suggestion is a second-best to my real wish that the Biblical cross references appear via hovered pop ups as they do in the SESB GNT4 with apparatus.Many thanks for all the good Greek resources you have brought to digital reality.0 -
Steve Maling said:
It would be great to have all the “front matter” and “back matter” in the print edition of Nestle-Aland 28 included in the forthcoming digital edition. In particular, it would be especially great to include Appendix IV, “Loci Citati vel Allegati”. This suggestion is a second-best to my real wish that the Biblical cross references appear via hovered pop ups as they do in the SESB GNT4 with apparatus.
[Y] [Y] [Y] I hope I'm not paying $49.95 for just a bunch of footnotes.
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Thanks Rick,
I'm in!
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
I have found the cross references to be very helpful when sticking in the book itself on the NA27; they are just enough, but not too many. That's disappointing; there is no real electronic analog to the printed book. Please update the forum if indeed the cross references are coming.
I do really appreciate the ability in Logos to display the footnotes on the same page with the text. I read footnotes quite a bit and it is tedious to mouse over all the time. Plus, you lose the effect of moving from text to footnotes, browsing the footnotes, and finding something surprising that you wouldn't have looked for normally! Then, returning to the text.
- Dennis
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