Since I always thought biblia.com went with the iPhone/iPad/Android devices regarding availability (the product site simply calls it "internet"), I wonder whether NIV 1984 is still available on mobile devices?
Looks that way--and I see it as a clear sign of Zondervan's desperation to turn their decisions into good ones (instead of just making good decisions to begin with). I could go on at length about the questionability of their various decisions from various angles, but they are actually doing several things to distance themselves from their base. Maybe we should commend them--maybe we need to be distanced from them... Just a little hard for me since I have a lifelong affinity toward the translation, but time will tell, and I'm set up pretty well.
Just to be clear it is the IBS not Zondervan that has retracted 1984, I am sure Zondervan would like nothing better than selling more products not caring too much whether it is 2011 or 1984. Yes I am aware many organizations may update their versions to 2011 but I would suspect a lot of them will commingle them happily for a while anyway...
Just to be clear it is the IBS not Zondervan that has retracted 1984, I am sure Zondervan would like nothing better than selling more products not caring too much whether it is 2011 or 1984.
Uh, yeah, I read that in another forum and actually don't think the clarification is particularly believable--nor for that matter--helpful. Nevertheless, I grant you the full benefit of the doubt that you shared this with all imaginable charity, so thank you, but I offer some clarifying points of my own (in question form):
What publisher bends their marketing decisions to the whims of the author? On that tangent, what publisher is known to make sudden changes not conducive to the interests of customers who have invested in them and trusted them for future expansion and a continued protection of their investment?
The answer to the first question is No publishing company, not even the first resulting one who took Johann Gutenberg to court to posess his presses and his partially completed Bibles--and then later completed publishing them, only recognizing him as the inventor after his death years later. The answer to the second one may surprise you as well. Blessings!
Yes I am aware many organizations may update their versions to 2011 but I would suspect a lot of them will commingle them happily for a while anyway
There is a 3rd option to update or commingle. I know of two good size churches who, on finding they could not replace some of their well worn pew bibles with identical copy (colour not important, just text & pagination), elected to discontinue use of the NIV, and went with a different translation. IBS would have been further ahead to have continued the NIV84, and kept the customer base. I suspect new Christians are more likely to purchase the same translation as they find in the pews, but would only go looking for NIV, not a particular edition. Accordingly, not only did IBS lose the church sales, but also possibly the future private sales.
I guess that is not really relevant to NIV84 in Biblia/Logos/verso, but, it may be reflected in which versions do get purchased. (Why has Crossways elected to give away electronic licenses for ESV's?)
NIV11 is 5% altered. By that I mean 1 in every 20 verses has been changed. That does not even take into account the punctuation changes. It is a new translation when it comes to my life long Bible memory work. How long before they make enough changes that it cannot even be considered a reliable translation at all? Seriously, are we going to just let Biblica tell folks like Biblia/Logos that they can't supply people with the translation they've loved for over 30 years? Logos, please stand up to Biblica/NYBible Society/ Zondervan and demand to supply your users with the translation we trust and want. NIV 11 has been "dumbed down" to compete financially with the NLT. Are we going to let money determine what we receive as God's word. Already scholars are flocking away from NIV11 to the ESV. Devotionalists are flocking away to the Holman and the NLT. Help us out Logos and get a reliable NIV back for us. (I've already taken my request to Biblica directly several times. Once I even challenged them to prove me wrong about their financial motivations and release the copyright for NIV84 into the public domain.) I asked nicely, but it might be time for the public to make demands.
However, Biblia is not for sale but is free. Therefore how can Zondervan force them not to include NIV 1984? Obviously LOGOS has chosen to submit to Zondervan's whims. LOGOS includes all kinds of aberrant stuff, why not include the NIV 1984, which unlike the 2011 version is not the TNIV in disguise?
I have ignored the problem for 2 years but today Bible Gateway denied me access to the NIV84 saying there is only one NIV and I should check out all the new features. What about 30 years of Bible memorization? What about over 5% of the text changed to become less literal? I got no response. We all rejoiced when NLT made the Living more scholarly, but why "dumb down the NIV?" MONEY. Why not allow us to continue to use the NIV84? I'm afraid it's the same answer. ESV and Holman are looking better and better, but what about the pew Bibles and all my memory verses? Does "Word perfect" count for anything anymore?
BibleGateway.com includes the NIV 1984 version. Apparently LOGOS is afraid of the big 'Z'. Who needs Biblia?
Bible Gateway has caved in as well. Somewhere in the Billy Graham Library there is supposed to be access to NIV84. If anyone can find it before I do, please post
Biblia is not for sale but is free. Therefore how can Zondervan force them not to include NIV 1984?
Biblia as a website is for free, but it shows only a limited number of resources which are either PD, or Logos holds the rights, or the publishers agreed to showing their stuff on the web. It will additionally show those resources from your Logos library where Logos relicenced with the publisher to be allowed to do so (97% of my library, the NIV84 is one of the rare exceptions). Any publisher can force anybody hosting a legitimite website and a business in North America or Europe to stop showing unlicenced content they have the copyright for.
Obviously LOGOS has chosen to submit to Zondervan's whims.
Obviously they have chosen to operate within the legal framework, which is on the long run a good thing for us customers.
Welcome, Sam.
It seems Zondervan now forced Logos to retract NIV 1984 completely in order to push users into NIV 2011. See e.g. this thread: http://community.logos.com/forums/t/48005.aspx
Since I always thought biblia.com went with the iPhone/iPad/Android devices regarding availability (the product site simply calls it "internet"), I wonder whether NIV 1984 is still available on mobile devices?
Have joy in the Lord!
I can still access the NIV84 on my iPad and Android phone, both in the Logos app and Vyrso
Looks that way--and I see it as a clear sign of Zondervan's desperation to turn their decisions into good ones (instead of just making good decisions to begin with). I could go on at length about the questionability of their various decisions from various angles, but they are actually doing several things to distance themselves from their base. Maybe we should commend them--maybe we need to be distanced from them... Just a little hard for me since I have a lifelong affinity toward the translation, but time will tell, and I'm set up pretty well.
Just to be clear it is the IBS not Zondervan that has retracted 1984, I am sure Zondervan would like nothing better than selling more products not caring too much whether it is 2011 or 1984. Yes I am aware many organizations may update their versions to 2011 but I would suspect a lot of them will commingle them happily for a while anyway...
-Dan
St. Jerome's House † Install
Uh, yeah, I read that in another forum and actually don't think the clarification is particularly believable--nor for that matter--helpful. Nevertheless, I grant you the full benefit of the doubt that you shared this with all imaginable charity, so thank you, but I offer some clarifying points of my own (in question form):
What publisher bends their marketing decisions to the whims of the author? On that tangent, what publisher is known to make sudden changes not conducive to the interests of customers who have invested in them and trusted them for future expansion and a continued protection of their investment?
The answer to the first question is No publishing company, not even the first resulting one who took Johann Gutenberg to court to posess his presses and his partially completed Bibles--and then later completed publishing them, only recognizing him as the inventor after his death years later. The answer to the second one may surprise you as well. Blessings!
There is a 3rd option to update or commingle. I know of two good size churches who, on finding they could not replace some of their well worn pew bibles with identical copy (colour not important, just text & pagination), elected to discontinue use of the NIV, and went with a different translation. IBS would have been further ahead to have continued the NIV84, and kept the customer base. I suspect new Christians are more likely to purchase the same translation as they find in the pews, but would only go looking for NIV, not a particular edition. Accordingly, not only did IBS lose the church sales, but also possibly the future private sales.
I guess that is not really relevant to NIV84 in Biblia/Logos/verso, but, it may be reflected in which versions do get purchased. (Why has Crossways elected to give away electronic licenses for ESV's?)
NIV11 is 5% altered. By that I mean 1 in every 20 verses has been changed. That does not even take into account the punctuation changes. It is a new translation when it comes to my life long Bible memory work. How long before they make enough changes that it cannot even be considered a reliable translation at all? Seriously, are we going to just let Biblica tell folks like Biblia/Logos that they can't supply people with the translation they've loved for over 30 years? Logos, please stand up to Biblica/NYBible Society/ Zondervan and demand to supply your users with the translation we trust and want. NIV 11 has been "dumbed down" to compete financially with the NLT. Are we going to let money determine what we receive as God's word. Already scholars are flocking away from NIV11 to the ESV. Devotionalists are flocking away to the Holman and the NLT. Help us out Logos and get a reliable NIV back for us. (I've already taken my request to Biblica directly several times. Once I even challenged them to prove me wrong about their financial motivations and release the copyright for NIV84 into the public domain.) I asked nicely, but it might be time for the public to make demands.
However, Biblia is not for sale but is free. Therefore how can Zondervan force them not to include NIV 1984? Obviously LOGOS has chosen to submit to Zondervan's whims. LOGOS includes all kinds of aberrant stuff, why not include the NIV 1984, which unlike the 2011 version is not the TNIV in disguise?
BibleGateway.com includes the NIV 1984 version. Apparently LOGOS is afraid of the big 'Z'. Who needs Biblia?
I have ignored the problem for 2 years but today Bible Gateway denied me access to the NIV84 saying there is only one NIV and I should check out all the new features. What about 30 years of Bible memorization? What about over 5% of the text changed to become less literal? I got no response. We all rejoiced when NLT made the Living more scholarly, but why "dumb down the NIV?" MONEY. Why not allow us to continue to use the NIV84? I'm afraid it's the same answer. ESV and Holman are looking better and better, but what about the pew Bibles and all my memory verses? Does "Word perfect" count for anything anymore?
i noticed a banner the other day on biblegateway.com that said niv84 would no longer be available after feb 28.
https://support.biblegateway.com/entries/23178691-Why-did-you-remove-the-1984-NIV-and-TNIV-from-Bible-Gateway-
Biblegateway says that it's Biblica that asked them to remove the NIV84 text. No mention of Zondervan.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
Bible Gateway has caved in as well. Somewhere in the Billy Graham Library there is supposed to be access to NIV84. If anyone can find it before I do, please post
Biblia as a website is for free, but it shows only a limited number of resources which are either PD, or Logos holds the rights, or the publishers agreed to showing their stuff on the web. It will additionally show those resources from your Logos library where Logos relicenced with the publisher to be allowed to do so (97% of my library, the NIV84 is one of the rare exceptions). Any publisher can force anybody hosting a legitimite website and a business in North America or Europe to stop showing unlicenced content they have the copyright for.
Obviously they have chosen to operate within the legal framework, which is on the long run a good thing for us customers.
Have joy in the Lord!