A Christmas Wish: English Translation of Targums

For quite a while now, Accordance has had an English translation module for the various targums. While I greatly appreciate having the targums morphologically tagged, etc., it would be really nice for someone whose Aramaic is quite rusty to have an English translation that can linked to the Aramaic ones. Besides...I am getting old and running down the hallway to my colleague's office to use Accordance is probably more exercise than I can stand

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Wijnand Hörchner

For someone who is not even familiar with Aramaic it would be very helpfull to have at least the Targum of Isaiah in English like The Chaldee Paraphrase on the Prophet Isaiah from Jonathan B. Uzziel (Author), C. W. H. Pauli (Translator). BibleWorks has such a module.

Anthony H

... to have an English translation that can be(sic) linked to the Aramaic...

Yes, Please! [Y]

... or perhaps "an English Interlinear" that is linked to the Aramaic Targums.

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138531#Comment_138531

... to have an English translation that can be(sic) linked to the Aramaic...

Yes, Please!

... or perhaps "an English Interlinear" that is linked to the Aramaic Targums.

Except for the proposal of an interlinear (NEVER an interlinear), I would agree with this since I still read English more readily than any other language. It would be helpful to scan the text for sections I might want to examine more closely.

Brian Leathers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138534#Comment_138534

I second the motion for "an English Interlinear" that is linked to the Aramaic Targums! Please!!

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/138534#Comment_138534

Except for the proposal of an interlinear (NEVER an interlinear),

Agreed. I would like an English translation but not an interlinear.

I would even more like the possibility of supra-lineal vowels (the Babylonian system) for those Targums so pointed: namely, Onqelos. I find it frustrating to read Onqelos with "Tiberian" vowels.

Arttu Hiekkanen

An english translation of Targumim to Logos is quite necessary as the resources already have the Aramaic texts. With an info-window (hover-translate Aramaic words with full definitions) some translation can still be done with relative ease. But alas, although the web can be used to get random a translation to ease the work, that's really not the way I want to work with the Targumim. When will we have some proper texts in English?

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/215105#Comment_215105

Targums in the Comprehensive Aramaic Lexicon Project offered by Logos:

The following Targums will be included (along with the Targum Lexicon and a general introduction):

Targum Onqelos to the Pentateuch
Targum Jonathan to the Prophets
Targum Neofiti to the Pentateuch
Marginalia to Targum Neofiti to the Pentateuch
Targum Pseudo-Jonathan to the Pentateuch
Fragment Targums to the Pentateuch:
- MS Paris 110
- MS Paris 110 - repetition of the Decalogue
- MSS Vatican Ebr. 440, Nuernberg, and Leipzig B.H. fol. 1
Targum Job
Qumran Targum Fragments:
- 4QtgJob
- 11QtgJob

Targum Song of Songs
Targum Qohelet (Ecclesiastes)
Yemenite Text of Targum Lamentations
Western Text of Targum Lamentations
First Targum to Esther (Targum Rishon to Esther)
Second Targum to Esther (Targum Sheni to Esther)
Larger Supplements to the Second Targum to Esther (Targum Sheni to Esther)
Third Targum to Esther (Targum Shelishi to Esther)
Targum Chronicles
Targumic Toseftot to the Prophets
Targum Psalms
Targum Proverbs
Targum Ruth

In English ???

Still waiting for some word

HJ. van der Wal

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/219087#Comment_219087

Added to the Prepub Page: Early Bible Translations Collection

Charles Thompson's English translation of the Greek Bible, both the Septuagint and the New Testament
James Murdock's English translation of the Syrian New Testament
Agnes Smith Lewis' English translation of the Four Gospels from the Syriac of the Sinaitic Palimpsest
Francis Crawford Burkitt's English translation of the Curetonian Version of the Four Gospels
J. W. Etheridge's English translation of the Targums of Onkelos and Jonathan ben Uzziel on the Pentateuch
C. W. H. Pauli's English translation of the Chaldee Paraphrase on the Prophet Isaiah, also known as the Targum Isaiah
J. W. Etheridge's English translation of the New Testament from the Peshitta
William Norton's Peshito-Syriac and Greek comparison of Hebrews, James, 1 Peter, and 1 John
J. W. Etheridge's in-depth look into the English translation of Matthew and Hebrews from the ancient Syriac

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/244277#Comment_244277

I was glad to see this on offer this morning. While I'd prefer a more recent translation (plus translations of the remaining Targumim), anything is better than nothing.

I'd still like the option for supra-lineal vowel pointing to be displayed.

James W Bennett

I too would like an English version of the Targums.

NELSON ARROYO

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/244478#Comment_244478

Agreed to requests above. English translations and interlinear would be helpful!

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/244277#Comment_244277

Added to the Prepub Page: Early Bible Translations Collection

This is all fine, but I don't like the packaging. I would rather have a Targums Package that is somewhat comprehensive and not a few Targumic resources lumped together with a number of others at this point I see no need for these. Nine books? - I would like just two of them or these two with all other items in the collection being Targums. Just my opinion.

jerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/267665#Comment_267665

I too would like to see translation to the targums.

JPH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/267665#Comment_267665

I would rather have a Targums Package that is somewhat comprehensive

Agreed. [Y][Y]

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/402803#Comment_402803

Kind of doubt any progress in this area. Need the word 'Lexham' on the front of the title to get some progress.

JPH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/402806#Comment_402806

Kind of doubt any progress in this area.

[N] [:'(]

Hans

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/402811#Comment_402811

Still don't see any progress on English Targums. Need need need!! : )

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466331#Comment_466331

Still don't see any progress on English Targums.

There's actually been a huge one very recently (though it may not be so obvious to non-Catholics): the clearly very much improved relationship between Logos and Liturgical Press, the publisher of the Aramaic Bible: The Targums. So far it's only had time to result in a few new prepubs, but hopefully we'll see Sacra Pagina, Berit Olam and the Aramaic Bible before the year is over.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/244277#Comment_244277

http://www.logos.com/product/7671/early-bible-translations-collection

Does this really need to be a PrePub? I bet this would fly through CP very quickly, considering the hunger for English targums...and I would like English versions of Syriac resources as well. The current price on this is a hopeless anchor on this collection.

Please move this to CP! Thanks.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466731#Comment_466731

Word on the street in Bellingham (ok, maybe 2 streets) is that Logos monitors the percent of users that quickly stuff their Targums with the funny writing into thei Hidden Resources box. Their rule of thumb (ok maybe 2 thumbs) is that any percent less than 99% might merit a targumic translation.

As fgh mentions concerning LitPress, the Aramaic Bible is really a joy to own. There's absolutely no 'dating' on the aramaic inserts. But one is impressed at the similarity in concepts between it and the NT phrasing. Especially when Abraham is wondering whether to be rewarded for his works on earth, knowing it'd be subtracted in the next age. 'Works' were tradable between lives.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466737#Comment_466737

http://www.logos.com/product/7671/early-bible-translations-collection

Does this really need to be a PrePub?

Not in my opinion. It's the only Public Domain collection on prepub, and has been for quite some time. My bet is that they simply missed it when they moved all the other PD works over to CP.

I e-mailed Dan about it almost a year ago, but nothing ever came of it. Perhaps if a number of us e-mailed him, something would happen?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466814#Comment_466814

Getting it off the dime (Prepub >> CP) would favor Logos too. One of the present major competitive disadvantages to Logos, is that the filler for Logos packages is a bit lower than the filler for the competitor packages. These would even it up a bit.

JPH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466737#Comment_466737

Please move this to CP! Thanks.

[Y]

Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466737#Comment_466737

http://www.logos.com/product/7671/early-bible-translations-collection

Does this really need to be a PrePub? I bet this would fly through CP very quickly, considering the hunger for English targums...and I would like English versions of Syriac resources as well. The current price on this is a hopeless anchor on this collection.

Please move this to CP! Thanks.

Agreed. I don't see anything in that collection that's even potentially still under copyright, based on the publication dates.

Caleb S.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466767#Comment_466767

I would love to see the Aramaic Bible series come to Logos. Here is a couple of links for them.

http://www.litpress.org/Search/Search.aspx?keywords=Targum&refine=&Group=

http://www.librarything.com/series/The+Aramaic+Bible

http://www.bible-researcher.com/aramaic5.html

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466814#Comment_466814

I e-mailed Dan about it almost a year ago, but nothing ever came of it. Perhaps if a number of us e-mailed him, something would happen?

I e-mailed Dan again, but he believes the few orders on prepub equals low interest, and they're trying to focus on things with more interest. Of course, I believe the slow progress comes from the price being far too high, not from the interest being far too low.

So it would really be helpful if all you who want the Early Bible Translations Collection (15 vols.) moved from prepub to CP e-mailed dan@logos.com and told him so, so that he can see for himself that the interest is there.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467633#Comment_467633

Agree on emailing Dan.

But seriously; something has gone seriously haywire. When I clicked on the pre-pub it's $190! (Maybe I should do it again, just in case I can't believe my eyes.)

Who is Dan kidding? Has he looked at the jpg's? They're in 'english'. There are some footnotes and they're in 'english' too! In fact, best I can see, there's some syriac text here and there. We'll get James for that. In the greek parallel to the peshitta it's in 'english'.

Even worse, the jpg's are quite clear. You don't have to squint. At best, maybe it might be difficult to maintain any pre-existing typos?

And even worse than that, you 'could' type in the text and compare it to public domain text already typed in! (Keeping everyone honest of course.)

Something's not on the level here.

EDIT: They more I think about this, the nuttier it gets. Does Dan really think he's going to sell these for maybe $299? (Post-pub price). Somebody's going to have to swallow hard.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467642#Comment_467642

I sent my email request. Hope this gets moved to CP soon.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467633#Comment_467633

I e-mailed Dan about it almost a year ago, but nothing ever came of it. Perhaps if a number of us e-mailed him, something would happen?

I e-mailed Dan again, but he believes the few orders on prepub equals low interest, and they're trying to focus on things with more interest. Of course, I believe the slow progress comes from the price being far too high, not from the interest being far too low.

So it would really be helpful if all you who want the Early Bible Translations Collection (15 vols.) moved from prepub to CP e-mailed dan@logos.com and told him so, so that he can see for himself that the interest is there.

Peace, FGH! *smile* You are absolutely correct! I would love to bid on it in Community Pricing, even if it took a long time. The present price is prohibitively expensive. By now, I think Dan is reading this thread; so, Dan, please ..... I'll save you reading one more e-mail by posting here .......... *smile*

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467809#Comment_467809

If Dan is reading, let me just say that Plato had two peaks, and the lower price was the higher one. But I understand the danger of taking it off prepub and starting over--look at Migne--it's even further from publication on CP than it was on prepub.

JPH

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467822#Comment_467822

too expensive on prepub, I'm in on CP though.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467822#Comment_467822

I understand the danger of taking it off prepub and starting over--look at Migne--it's even further from publication on CP than it was on prepub

You're comparing apples and oranges. There's a limited amount of Logos users who know Greek well enough to read Migne. There's also a limited amount of Logos users who have that big an interest in Patristics. And there's a limited amount of Logos users who have that kind of money. To find bidders for Migne, you have to find people who belong to all those three groups at the same time. It will get produced one day, but it will take a larger Catholic/Orthodox user base than Logos currently has.

The Early Bible Translations Collection (15 vols.), on the other hand, is in English, and on a subject of far more interest to the average Logos user. What's stopping it is the price.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467809#Comment_467809

By now, I think Dan is reading this thread; so, Dan, please ..... I'll save you reading one more e-mail by posting here

I still think it's a good idea to e-mail Dan, but for those of you who are too shy, here's a Uservoice suggestion to vote for: Move the Early Bible Translations Collection from prepub to CP. The Uservoice site for CP's is relatively new, so I bet you all have the maximum 3 votes to spare for this.[:)]

And then you can add your remaining votes to the other suggestions I just added there: Add more Jewish works to CP, Add more Patristic works to CP, and Add more Medieval works to CP.[:)]

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467913#Comment_467913

I understand the danger of taking it off prepub and starting over--look at Migne--it's even further from publication on CP than it was on prepub

You're comparing apples and oranges. There's a limited amount of Logos users who know Greek well enough to read Migne. There's also a limited amount of Logos users who have that big an interest in Patristics. And there's a limited amount of Logos users who have that kind of money. To find bidders for Migne, you have to find people who belong to all those three groups at the same time. It will get produced one day, but it will take a larger Catholic/Orthodox user base than Logos currently has.

The Early Bible Translations Collection (15 vols.), on the other hand, is in English, and on a subject of far more interest to the average Logos user. What's stopping it is the price.

It's not necessarily the case that those who bid on Migne have the money. They just find a way to work it out.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467940#Comment_467940

It's not necessarily the case that those who bid on Migne have the money. They just find a way to work it out.

That armored car heist you may have heard about... [:-*]

...it wasn't me.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467915#Comment_467915

Ok. First time I voted. So I used up my 10 votes (I ran out with the medieval one).

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467913#Comment_467913

I understand the danger of taking it off prepub and starting over--look at Migne--it's even further from publication on CP than it was on prepub

You're comparing apples and oranges. There's a limited amount of Logos users who know Greek well enough to read Migne. There's also a limited amount of Logos users who have that big an interest in Patristics. And there's a limited amount of Logos users who have that kind of money. To find bidders for Migne, you have to find people who belong to all those three groups at the same time. It will get produced one day, but it will take a larger Catholic/Orthodox user base than Logos currently has.

The Early Bible Translations Collection (15 vols.), on the other hand, is in English, and on a subject of far more interest to the average Logos user. What's stopping it is the price.

You're probably right--after all, this set must involve less work than the commentary sets which often go for less than $50. But I guess I'm not the person who needs persuading.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467915#Comment_467915

By now, I think Dan is reading this thread; so, Dan, please ..... I'll save you reading one more e-mail by posting here

I still think it's a good idea to e-mail Dan, but for those of you who are too shy, here's a Uservoice suggestion to vote for: Move the Early Bible Translations Collection from prepub to CP. The Uservoice site for CP's is relatively new, so I bet you all have the maximum 3 votes to spare for this.

And then you can add your remaining votes to the other suggestions I just added there: Add more Jewish works to CP, Add more Patristic works to CP, and Add more Medieval works to CP.

Just gave it three (3!) votes ......... *smile* Thanks for the encouragement!

George Somsel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/467957#Comment_467957

It's not necessarily the case that those who bid on Migne have the money. They just find a way to work it out.

That armored car heist you may have heard about...

...it wasn't me.

I know that since I have personal knowledge of the perpetrator. [6]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468012#Comment_468012

George and David, please don't steal this thread. Support the targumim instead.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468016#Comment_468016

Oh, come on...George and I are just trying to make sure we have enough nickels to pay for the collection when it hits CP...

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468012#Comment_468012

I don't know if this is just my opinion, but I suspect there is some support for what I am about to write.

My take is:

1] The price is too high for what is included [According to the descriptions, a number of these are "really important" scholarly works. But these were done ... over a hundred years ago??? who needs them - especially at that price?

2] Without isolating these varied works into units that can stand or fall on their own - it is impossible to know what the true interest is. I therefore strongly object to the way this collection has been packaged. [My vote was not solicited, but maybe we can have a voice on this.]

3] We do know one thing. The way this collection is packaged and priced is unappealing - even to those who are clamoring for a part of this collection. [Which part? Note the title of the thread.] The rationale for doing it this way may have been noble, but it is not what the Users (customers) want.

4] For those who have been asking for the Targums, why not simply give us a smaller collection that has just the Targums? [:)]

PROPOSITION TARGUMS ONLY: Logos Users want a Targums Only Collection.

Dear Logos, Would you PLEASE chop this collection up and give us a Targums Collection?

Ron Corbett

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/466767#Comment_466767

Word on the street in Bellingham (ok, maybe 2 streets) is that Logos monitors the percent of users that quickly stuff their Targums with the funny writing into thei Hidden Resources box.

I may be alone in this, but I "stuffed them" into the Hidden Resources box precisely because there is no English Translation available in Logos.

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468227#Comment_468227

I got a reply from Dan saying he would forward the request for a CP offering to the appropriate people... [Y]

...so 1, 2, 3 ("Hold your breath!")...

[+o(]

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468372#Comment_468372

I got a reply from Dan saying he would forward the request for a CP offering to the appropriate people...

...so 1, 2, 3 ("Hold your breath!")...

Yay! that's good news! . . . right?

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468399#Comment_468399

"MMph....ur...geh...oowh...,,,,UUUGHH!!

I couldn't hold it any longer...um, yes...I think it is good news.

...but maybe you shouldn't hold your breath just yet. [:P]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468399#Comment_468399

I got a reply from Dan saying he would forward the request for a CP offering to the appropriate people...

...so 1, 2, 3 ("Hold your breath!")...

Yay! that's good news! . . . right?

That's what he told me in April last year...

David Paul

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/468460#Comment_468460

O, ye of little faith! [:P] Hinneih!

<-----Ram got pull !! [H]