Community Pricing titles that need re-anchoring
All of the following titles are already in the top 50 most bid-on Community Pricing titles. And, based on sales history, none of them are likely to make it at the current leading bid.
[Sad face.]
After hundreds of bids prices get 'stuck', though. If you are interested in these titles, I would encourage you to raise your bid to help un-stick them, and reset expectations at more reasonable prices; hopefully the process of getting them closer to the line will draw new attention, and help them eventually go over closer (but, realistically, probably still higher) than the current price.
Many are killer deals even at three times the price! They just won't make it at the current numbers.
Princeton Theological Review (443 issues)
Mormon Studies Collection (45 vols.)
Von Soden Greek New Testament (4 vols.)
Whedon's Commentary on the Old and New Testaments (14 vols.)
The Century Dictionary (12 vols.)
English Bible Collection (27 vols.)
Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (3 vols.)
A Copious Phraseological English-Greek Lexicon
An English-Greek Dictionary
Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography (2 vols.)
The Catholic Encyclopedia (17 vols.)
A Dictionary of Christian Biography, Literature, Sects and Doctrines (4 vols.)
Cyclopaedia of Biblical, Theological, and Ecclesiastical Literature (12 vols.)
Lewis and Short's Latin Dictionary
-- Bob
Comments
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Bob Pritchett said:
Many are killer deals even at three times the price! They just won't make it at the current numbers.
Three of my favorites from your list in order of preference are:
Lewis and Short's Latin Dictionary in at $34
Princeton Theological Review (443 issues) in at $150
Von Soden Greek New Testament (4 vols.) in at $16
I have even been a cheerleader for at least two of these titles. What more can I do?
I have two observations one is a question and the other is a marketing idea. First, is it possible for you to give your customers a better idea of the reasonable margin you need to produce the works in question?
Lastly, for these "killer deals" that seem to languish why not adopt the same strategy that you have used to encourage early commitments from customers for certain pre-pubs.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
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How long will these works remain if more bids or higher bids are not received?
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bob Pritchett said:
And, based on sales history, none of them are likely to make it at the current leading bid.
Unfortunately this is at least partially the result of the short-sighted strategy promoted by some on the forum of bidding as low as possible to drive the price down so it will encourage others to bid too. Followed to it's logical conclusion we should all bid $1. Problem is of course then they never get produced, exactly what is happening to these resources.
Longtime Logos user (more than $30,000 in purchases) - now a second class user because I won't pay them more every month or year.
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Community pricing is just that, a marketing scheme that is driven mainly by community valuation.
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Bob Pritchett said:
I would encourage you to raise your bid to help un-stick them, and reset expectations at more reasonable prices; hopefully the process of getting them closer to the line will draw new attention, and help them eventually go over closer (but, realistically, probably still higher) than the current price.
Thanks, Bob. Your insight is invaluable. I've raised my bid to $50 for The Century Dictionary and The Catholic Encyclopedia. I'm thinking now that if the Jewish Encyclopedia went over the top at $50 these should also. Lewis & Short's Latin Dictionary for $30.
Let's pile on, everyone!!! [<:o)]
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Alex Scott said:
Unfortunately this is at least partially the result of the short-sighted strategy promoted by some on the forum of bidding as low as possible to drive the price down so it will encourage others to bid too.
High bids alone are not always the best strategy either. I point to the example of Classic Commentaries and Studies on Revalation. Some resources carry a greater cost to produce and require more bids at a unknown critical mass.
If Logos would adopt a more transparent strategy for these special cases I think we would all benefit. I may be wrong, but I would like to be corrected if I am.
Meanwhile, Jesus kept on growing wiser and more mature, and in favor with God and his fellow man.
International Standard Version. (2011). (Lk 2:52). Yorba Linda, CA: ISV Foundation.
MacBook Pro MacOS Sequoia 15.5 1TB SSD
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At $16 for von Soden and $30 for Lewis and Short
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Could popular Biblical Studies Blogs be persuaded to run a banner to specific collections in exchange for a free set when it goes over?
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Bob Pritchett said:
Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (3 vols.)
Looking at whether higher prices are justified, a search of my Logos library shows a recommendation from a retired professor from TEDS for this resource and two others in CP:
Smith’s Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (3 vols.) plus vol. 4, Greek and Roman Antiquities and vols. 5 & 6 on Greek and Roman Geography by William Smith (also author ed. of the 4th vol. Smith’s Dictionary of the Bible), London: John Murray, 1853–1880, about 1,100 pages per vol. Amazingly complete, valuable.
Culver, R. D. (2005). Systematic Theology: Biblical and Historical (1172). Ross-shire, UK: Mentor.Dictionary of Greek and Roman Biography and Mythology (3 vols.)
Dictionary of Greek and Roman Antiquities
Dictionary of Greek and Roman Geography (2 vols.)
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Bruce Dunning said:
How long will these works remain if more bids or higher bids are not received?
Presumably, they will never make it. The way that CP pricing works is that Logos looks to cover their costs through the CP process. If they were to take on these resources, they would be losing money. Perhaps some of these resources would make good additions to future base packages, and Logos might push them along for that reason.
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alabama24 said:Bruce Dunning said:
How long will these works remain if more bids or higher bids are not received?
Presumably, they will never make it. The way that CP pricing works is that Logos looks to cover their costs through the CP process. If they were to take on these resources, they would be losing money. Perhaps some of these resources would make good additions to future base packages, and Logos might push them along for that reason.
Actually what I was implying by asking is whether Logos would pull some of these resources if there is not enough interest rather than letting them be permanently parked in CP.
Using adventure and community to challenge young people to continually say "yes" to God
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Bruce Dunning said:
Actually what I was implying by asking is whether Logos would pull some of these resources if there is not enough interest rather than letting them be permanently parked in CP.
Well, we'll leave them here for a while, but if they're clearly never going to make it we will take them down. In some cases we might put the book on pre-pub, at a higher price than the leading CP bid, resetting expectations and hopefully getting more revenue from fewer people that way, to cover costs.
https://www.logos.com/product/20311/dictionary-of-greek-and-roman-biography-and-mythology, for example, has a $20 leading bid -- but it's 3,600 pages! It just can't cover costs at that price, even though many people want it. Maybe put on pre-pub at $79.95 it could retain enough of those interested customers...
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Bob Pritchett said:
https://www.logos.com/product/20311/dictionary-of-greek-and-roman-biography-and-mythology, for example, has a $20 leading bid -- but it's 3,600 pages! It just can't cover costs at that price, even though many people want it.
I have to admit that it's somewhat confusing. [*-)] Why would the Projected Price ever have been $20 if "it just can't cover costs at that price, even though many people want it."
Honestly, I always bid at the Projected Price thinking that the research has been done and that's likely where it will be.
?
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Steve said:Bob Pritchett said:
https://www.logos.com/product/20311/dictionary-of-greek-and-roman-biography-and-mythology, for example, has a $20 leading bid -- but it's 3,600 pages! It just can't cover costs at that price, even though many people want it.
I have to admit that it's somewhat confusing.
Why would the Projected Price ever have been $20 if "it just can't cover costs at that price, even though many people want it."Honestly, I always bid at the Projected Price thinking that the research has been done and that's likely where it will be.
?
Remember that Logos doesn't project the price. Rather the price is set by bidders choosing what they are willing to pay. I think that there may be some confusion about how the projected price works or maybe I'm just confused.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Remember that Logos doesn't project the price.
Oh. Maybe that's right, Bruce. Perhaps I'm the one who is confused. ...again. [:S]
I thought there was a Projected Price on the product page from day one, even before a vote was cast. And that it stayed at that Project Price throughout.
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thanks for the heads up bob... i will go double my bid on the titles i'm interested in
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Bob - at that same link you posted, you are "projecting" that the book will cost 29$ after it leaves cp.
"Projected Price$20.0031% OFFReg.:$28.95Print:$99.95"
You might want to adjust what you plan on selling it for if you want us to raise our bids... I went and bid 35 on it until I saw that tid bit. I wouldn't want to pay more now than the actual price it will sell for in six months or a year.L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
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Thanks for giving a plug to these underbid recources Bob.
Community Pricing offers some of the most scintilating opportunities to build library along biblical theological lines, be it print or electronic. The last few years have featured quite a run, with the Classic Commentaries series giving the program lots of exposure and a real shot of adrenalin. Keeping up the pace now may require more educational efforts relative to the value of the resources being offered. Many forum posters have tried to do so, but to little avail. Might I suggest some Logos Blog postings about individual CP items like those listed above; particularly postings that contain SOME information about the writer(s)/work(s) etc., but MORE content in those postings that give real world examples that illustrate the unique value of each set of recources brings to the Logos Bible Software user.
I also don't see the Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia in your list, but I think it suffers the same fate as the others.
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Bruce Dunning said:
Remember that Logos doesn't project the price. Rather the price is set by bidders choosing what they are willing to pay
There is a projected cost to publish and that remains fixed. But Logos apply ranges to direct the bids e.g. $15 to $100 at $5 intervals. If you take Bob's example it is clear that the $20 lead bid perhaps should not have been allowed when he is now projecting $79.95 i.e. the range should have been $40 upwards.
Alternatively, when a certain percentage of cost is achieved or after a certain time, Logos could state the bid that existing bidders would have to make in order to succeed.
Dave
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I must not understand how the community pricing is supposed to work. I wonder if it is not a good name for it. How long does an item stay in community pricing? I put in a bid for the Hodge Collection last year and it is still in community pricing.
If this is test marketing, then lets call it what it is. If it is community pricing then price it base on the community bids and let us buy it. Can anyone shed more light on how this is supposed to work?
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Jeffrey King said:
I must not understand how the community pricing is supposed to work. I wonder if it is not a good name for it. How long does an item stay in community pricing? I put in a bid for the Hodge Collection last year and it is still in community pricing.
If this is test marketing, then lets call it what it is. If it is community pricing then price it base on the community bids and let us buy it. Can anyone shed more light on how this is supposed to work?
Welcome to the forums Jeffrey! Thanks for taking time to post. Here is a video that explains how Community Pricing Works. http://www.logos.com/communitypricing/about
Basically Logos users place bids and when the cost of production is reached the resource then goes into production. This is a win-win arrangement for Logos and Logos users. Logos doesn't risk investing in a resource that may not even cover costs and Logos users get great deals for being the first to invest in resources. I hope that helps and that you continue to place as many bids as you are able. When you do we all win.
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Jeffrey King said:
If this is test marketing, then lets call it what it is. If it is community pricing then price it base on the community bids and let us buy it.
Yeah! That's right! I think Logos should pay me to take all those books off their hands! For about $20K, I'll carry off everything they have...but only one copy of each, please...I can only carry so much in one trip.
Fiji, here is come! [ip]
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Bob Pritchett said:
Many are killer deals even at three times the price! They just won't make it at the current numbers.
Princeton Theological Review (443 issues)
I would like to see Princeton Review in Logo's, but I don't think its gonna make it by Community Pricing.[:(]
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I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.
Another issue is that Logos may be saturating its market, trying to grow too fast in so many different areas. Over the last year the total volume in Community Pricing has almost doubled. I bid on every community pricing item because it is the most cost effective way to build a big library. Not too long ago my total backlog of orders in CP was $2000 to $2500. Today it is $4500 to $5000. I will soon be changing my strategy and dropping out because I cannot keep up.
The situation in prepub is the same. The volume of products has more than doubled. I certainly do not buy all of these, but on even those I want, I will be deciding to cut back.
Having all these choices is good, but there is danger in growing too fast to keep the quality in the resources that we need. Many resources are coming out with many, many errors, I worry that if Logos grows too fast and fails, our libraries will be worthless and our entire investment lost.
I did increase my bids on all of the items Bob mentioned, but I don't expect this to help. Logos will need to promote these better and perhaps reset the bidding at a higher level. There could be some sort of criteria on when an item should be canceled and replaced with a higher matrix when the bidding stalls at too low a level. Logos knows what the size of the bidding population is and they should be able to set the range such that even at the lowest bid there are enough in the population to push it to completion. Logos does control the size of the lowest bid. So it's basically their problem.
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Michael Lasley said:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.
Michael, you make some great points but I especially like this one. I have been saying this for a while too and wish that they would share more information. I'm not sure why they don't do this.
You also make some great points about how many resources are in CP and Prepubs compared to what it was like a few years ago. It is hard to keep track of everything and the costs can rise significantly without fully realizing it.
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Well, I would guess that competitors would benefit from Logos giving out such information: Bruce Dunning said: Michael Lasley said:Michael, you make some great points but I especially like this one. I have been saying this for a while too and wish that they would share more information. I'm not sure why they don't do this:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.
I've always bid high on English Bible collection (27 vols.).Disclosure!
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Michael Lasley said:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.
The main reason is to avoid getting caught up in silly arguments. Our costs are what they are, and we're always trying to reduce them (and those reductions show up as lower production costs on new CP titles -- and sometimes on ones already listed). But not everyone understands our business, or has enough contextual data to build an accurate opinion about what a high or low cost is.
Experience has taught us that if we say "It will cost $10,000 to produce this book," one person will think that's amazingly cheap and another will think it's insanely expensive. And a third person will question our character, Christian faith, and call us names. :-)
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Bob Pritchett said:Michael Lasley said:
I think it would give us a better feel on what to bid if we had at least one other piece of information like the number of bidders or the actual cost of production. Logos keeps this secret for some reason - I'm not sure why.
The main reason is to avoid getting caught up in silly arguments. Our costs are what they are, and we're always trying to reduce them (and those reductions show up as lower production costs on new CP titles -- and sometimes on ones already listed). But not everyone understands our business, or has enough contextual data to build an accurate opinion about what a high or low cost is.
Experience has taught us that if we say "It will cost $10,000 to produce this book," one person will think that's amazingly cheap and another will think it's insanely expensive. And a third person will question our character, Christian faith, and call us names. :-)
What you are saying makes total sense to me for the average person has no context for the actual production costs. But this was not the information that I was hoping to see. What I think would help is a more detailed scale of % of production cost as items near the final 10% and how many more people it would take to bring the price down to the next marker. I think this could gain more enthusiasm for people to sign on at the last minute. I can't tell you how many times I've tried to look at the current scale and "guess" where it actually was at. I think that showing the last 10% would help.
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Bob Pritchett said:
Experience has taught us that if we say "It will cost $10,000 to produce this book," one person will think that's amazingly cheap and another will think it's insanely expensive. And a third person will question our character, Christian faith, and call us names. :-)
Amen!!!
Just get us in the ballpark, Bob. That's all we are asking. We all appreciate the work you and everyone at Logos are doing...truly appreciate it. [:)]
All of us out here want to take advantage of every offering to the extent our individual circumstances will allow. Please allow us the opportunity to help you and your team to get these Community Price works over the top. However you think is best. That's all.
When a Community Price item goes "stale" or worse, gets removed, we all lose.
You have our vote, Bob. God bless you and Happy Easter!!
Blessings,
Steve
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Bob Pritchett said:
Well, we'll leave them here for a while, but if they're clearly never going to make it we will take them down. In some cases we might put the book on pre-pub, at a higher price than the leading CP bid, resetting expectations and hopefully getting more revenue from fewer people that way, to cover costs.
Bob, rather than putting on Pre-pub, why not experiment with taking one of them off CP for a day, then reinstating it as a new CP item with no bids on it. This would allow a clean slate and possibly a more appropriate price to form. Once items have established this much of a peak, I'd say it's really unlikely you'll see a movement as things stand. We get people begging for revised bids very frequently on the forums and it hardly ever changes anything. I know there are odd exceptions. You could email those who had bid to let them know what was happening, akin to the bid has/has not succeeded email.
Personally, I don't mind these items taking a few years to get into production. I'm not desperate for them but happy to buy them at CP prices. I wouldn't buy at Pre-pub prices.
In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.
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A tremendous idea, BriM! [:O]:
BriM said:In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.
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Unix said:
A tremendous idea, BriM!
: BriM said:In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.
I concur!
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BriM said:
In the longer term, you might want to consider whether it's possible to change CP slightly. The first few bidders seem to set the price - sometimes too high, sometimes too low because most people bid the going rate. I wonder whether hiding the peak for the first week would help people bid what they think rather than what the peak says.
An alternative idea is Logos using historical information to open community pricing with ## bids placed for an initial projected price, which is likely to succeed. The amount needed to cover 100 % of projected cost could include the initial ## bids by Logos. Hence, 100 % of projected resource cost would be covered by community bidding. Anticipate number of ## initial bids being different depending on resource.
Keep Smiling [:)]
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BUMP
Bob Pritchett said:All of the following titles are already in the top 50 most bid-on Community Pricing titles. And, based on sales history, none of them are likely to make it at the current leading bid. (...)
Many are killer deals even at three times the price! They just won't make it at the current numbers. (...)
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At least one of them actually has made it.
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from the last item on page one:
Dave Hooton said:Alternatively, when a certain percentage of cost is achieved or after a certain time, Logos could state the bid that existing bidders would have to make in order to succeed.
Yes, Bob said that we needed to triple our bids [I doubled mine] but a line stating that if you want it now bid this many $$$ might wake us up.
Early Bible Translations Collection is closing soon but maybe the other Bible set should be broken up as I [for one] only want two Bibles in the collection. Yes, many Bibles are selling for $10 but others are $40 or so.
[[Yes, Lewis and Short's Latin Dictionary has been published - I did not check all of them]]
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