Moody titles will be going away

The loss of John MacArthur will be huge to Logos.

I will not see the loss of MacArthur as a loss...just my personal opinion...in fact, going through all the Moody offerings, the only things I may have purchased in the future that I don't have, are the Intoduction to Old Testament series.  I'm hopeful that others can come on board and replace them post haste...maybe Banner of Truth!

This will be a loss

Disturbing news. Not good for Logos 

I don't think so, I think it is bad news for Moody.  

This will be a loss

I think it will be a loss for Moody more than Logos.

Who can we write at Moody to suggest a better way - like Christian cooperation please?

Probably 

Moody Publishers Customer Serice
820 N. LaSalle Blvd.
Chicago, IL 60610
Phone: 800-678-8812
Phone: 312-329-2101
Fax: 800-678-3329
Fax: 312-329-2144
Email: mpcustomerservice@moody.edu

( from http://www.moodypublishers.com/pub_main.aspx?id=41801 )

I sent off a brief email asking them to reconsider.

This will be a loss

I think it will be a loss for Moody more than Logos.

This whole things just leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

It also makes me wonder how future relationships with other publishers might change at the drop of a hat.

The loss of John MacArthur will be huge to Logos.

I will not see the loss of MacArthur as a loss...just my personal opinion...

Of course, it is always personal opinion as to what resources we buy.  I respect John MacArthur, though as a Wesleyan and non-dispensationalist, I disagree with him on many things.  In fact, about the only thing he writes that I am interested in is his New Testament Commentaries which I already have.  (I think he does a great job on the commentaries, and I am not intimidated by the parts of his theology that I disagree with.)  So I don't mean it will be a big loss to me, personally. 

I mean that John MacArthur is very popular, and a big seller.  The loss of his books will hurt Logos, if it cannot be corrected.  It will hurt Logos in relationship to rival software which will continue to carry MacArthur's works.  Because I care deeply about Logos' future - as well as my investment in Logos resources - I do indeed think the loss of John MacArthur is huge.

I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

What if we already purchased them?  Will we still have access please?

--Panic stricken Mdiv Student--

Yes. If you own the license to these books, you will retain access. We will not take books away that you own.

Hmmm...can I buy multiple copies of a license now, store them and "transfer" them to agreeable parties in the future?

This will be a loss

I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I was thinking the same thing. I could not think of a more effective marketing campaign as people pull out all the stops to buy while they can.

This will be a loss

Probably not in the short term! I bought a few resources I didn't want to lose out on, I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

Hmmm...can I buy multiple copies of a license now, store them and "transfer" them to agreeable parties in the future?

I believe you would need to have each license under a different account. This was a practice of a few back in the Libronix days. They would buy several licenses as an "investment" and resell them at a profit. Yep, they sure did. [8-|]

I don't think every other week a major publisher should threaten Logos and us and thereby inducing last-minute sales

It reminds me of the kid who is losing at marbles. He can't compete so he takes his marbles and goes home. This ploy won't work more than a couple times because I can't drop $1000 every time a publisher pulls out. And I sure am not running over to another Bible software just because they have exclusive rights to Moody. 

I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I was thinking the same thing. I could not think of a more effective marketing campaign as people pull out all the stops to buy while they can.

STORE CLOSING!!! LAST DAY!!!

And of course, they'll see all the revenue and change their minds. Then everyone who stretched to make the last minute purchase will get upset. And since everyone accelerated their Moody purchases, they'll slow to a trickle and get pulled in a little while anyway...

I wonder how many Moody's resources were bought in the last day because of this....I bet more than a pittance!  

I was thinking the same thing. I could not think of a more effective marketing campaign as people pull out all the stops to buy while they can.

STORE CLOSING!!! LAST DAY!!!

And of course, they'll see all the revenue and change their minds.

I do hope so in the interest of Logos, its users and the authors (and even Moody, although they seem not to see this right now).

But actually I'd expect that since producing these books is a major investment for Logos - which only pays off over time when the books are sold - the contract between publishers will usually allow for stopping to produce and sell new books, but not for pulling books from the store unless certain conditions such as a minimum duration on sale/minimum number of books sold/... are met for Logos. And even if not, such contracts will have termination clauses that stipulate a termination notice well in advance. At least that's how I would try to negotiate them. If this is so, Moody either buys Logos out of the contract (hope they shell out big $$$ to Bob, if so) or finds a loophole to get out of it by claiming a breach of contract on Logos' side. This then is something they do deliberately and won't change over a couple of dollars licence sales.

But maybe they come to their minds when they realize that it rather looks very dishonest for a Christian publisher to do so.

I was also thinking that normally, if I had a quantity of books I was going to order I would call sales and ask if they could give me a better price but in the flurry of it all I didn't even think of it. I'm not sure whether they would have given a discount anyhow in light of what is happening.

I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I do know that recently lots of publishers have been trying to up their royalty rates when it comes time to renew their contracts with companies such as Logos. With higher royalty rates the Bible software companies have lower profit margins, which is not good for many given the amount of work that goes into some resources. It could simply be that Logos does not want to agree to a new & higher royalty rate from Moody, which means that when the current contract ends they can no longer sell their resources until a new agreement is reached.

I know this kind of stuff because I talked frequently with the guy who handled this stuff @ WORDsearch during my time there.

I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I do know that recently lots of publishers have been trying to up their royalty rates when it comes time to renew their contracts with companies such as Logos. With higher royalty rates the Bible software companies have lower profit margins, which is not good for many given the amount of work that goes into some resources. It could simply be that Logos does not want to agree to a new & higher royalty rate from Moody, which means that when the current contract ends they can no longer sell their resources until a new agreement is reached.

I know this kind of stuff because I talked frequently with the guy who handled this stuff @ WORDsearch during my time there.

If this is true it makes you wonder what the future will look like with other publishers.

If this is true it makes you wonder what the future will look like with other publishers.

If this is true it makes you wonder what the future will look like with other publishers.

  As a former employee of Moody Bookstore, I know that when Moody closed its retail division and leased its stores to Lifeway; there is always part of the story that is unknown to the public.   Ironically, it was Moody Graduate School (now Moody Theological Seminary) that introduced me to Logos Software 10 years ago and it is still a required purchase for any student taking Biblical Language courses at MTS.   I would be very surprised if there were not some sort of merger or acquisition happening behind the scenes and we will soon see a bigger part of this picture.

I appreciate your points David. Let us be careful of raw conjecture. Kent cannot tell us more, but no doubt there is much more to the story. Moody has for a long time had a strong relationship with Logos. Whatever the case let us be generous in our assessment of motives we have no idea of.

 I also have filled up my shopping cart, but have yet to empty my bank account by pushing the button. Pondering what to do.[:^)]

 I also have filled up my shopping cart, but have yet to empty my bank account by pushing the button. Pondering what to do.

Better safe than sorry. Kent said it could end at any moment without notice.

I also have filled up my shopping cart, but have yet to empty my bank account by pushing the button. Pondering what to do.

Maybe you should be hoping that the Moody titles aren't withdrawn while they are sitting in your cart! I was in the same position myself earlier with Macarthur sitting in my cart, I knew that I couldn't really afford to buy the collection today but by the same token I knew I would kick myself if I had missed out on the opportunity to buy while I had the chance. So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.

So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.

Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. [:O]

I would doubt them pulling out from other software indeed, Olivetree just released a Moody book in the last week. I don't know the reasoning for them leaving Logos, but Logos this sort of thing has happened before WJKP pulled out leaving the DSB and Interpretation gone for many years- the Jerome Biblical Commentary was lost and hasn't made it back. Also some titles have been under development and Logos suddenly lost rights to even produce it. Logos also was forced to delay release of the Anchor defence library just days before it's release (it seems to me that it was over 6 months delayed while the contract issues were worked out). There are only a few titles from moody I am sad to see lost, and will not be purchasing the couple titles not owned by me that I am sad to see gone. As i said before TWOT is the biggest loss in my mind, Jensen's survey of Old and New testaments looks lie a loss to me too… Anyway they are books I can live without.

-Dan

Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. 

So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.

Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. 

30 day rule! [:)]

Logos should give more discount (drop the price a little bit) on MacArthur Collection to drive up more sales on the last day. I'm sure people would buy (me)

I don't mean to be a conspiracy nut, but is it possible that rival software is trying to get exclusive contracts with publishers of some popular resources in order to squeeze Logos out and increase their market share?

Interestingly enough, rival software vendors have accused Logos of doing this [:D]

Logos should give more discount (drop the price a little bit) on MacArthur Collection to drive up more sales on the last day. I'm sure people would buy (me)

Give your sales person a quick call or email. Not all resources can be discounted but you won't know unless you ask. 

So I closed my eyes and clicked my mouse.

Does that help? I believe even if I close my eyes, my wife will still see. 

Find that old post by Nina Jones and show it to Mrs TC [:D]

Find that old post by Nina Jones and show it to Mrs TC 

Here it is Thomas: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24077/180376.aspx#180376

Good luck. [8-)]

Find that old post by Nina Jones and show it to Mrs TC 

Here it is Thomas: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24077/180376.aspx#180376

Good luck. 

Find that old post by Nina Jones and show it to Mrs TC 

Here it is Thomas: http://community.logos.com/forums/p/24077/180376.aspx#180376

Good luck. 

Noted that you keep that link handy in case of urgent need  

That is a great link that probably will be quoted many more times in the future!

Noted that you keep that link handy in case of urgent need  

I needed that quote again today. (Moody titles & March Madness) [A] It is worth it's weight in gold.

Just a reminder to all to add the coupon code 3MM13 to their Moody orders...... [:)]

Just a reminder to all to add the coupon code 3MM13 to their Moody orders......

Which authors was this for?

Which authors was this for?

There are some individual volumes by John MacArthur that are outside of the John MacArthur Bundle and published by Moody. There may be others. I don't know.

There are some individual volumes by John MacArthur that are outside of the John MacArthur Bundle and published by Moody. There may be others. I don't know.

Thanks Matthew.

There are some individual volumes by John MacArthur that are outside of the John MacArthur Bundle and published by Moody.

1. Heaven
2. Spiritual Gifts
3. The Believer's Armor: Ephesians 6:10–24
4. The Fulfilled Family

Each of these were featured in Round 3 of March Madness. Use code 3MM13 in checkout. These titles are not included in the MacArthur Bundle. Please note; approximately 28 books in ths MacArthur Bundle are published by Moody Press. I assume the departure of Moody will affect the availability or composition of this Bundle.

I wish that I could afford to get the MacArthur bundle right now, but I just do not have that kind of money.  If I had within a month's notice, I would have definitely picked that up.

Sad for now, hoping that Moody Publishers comes to their senses and starts doing business with Logos again.

I wish that I could afford to get the MacArthur bundle right now, but I just do not have that kind of money.  If I had within a month's notice, I would have definitely picked that up.

 You might want to consider getting it on a payment plan while it is available. You also have a 30 day return privilege if you change your mind.

I wish that I could afford to get the MacArthur bundle right now, but I just do not have that kind of money.  If I had within a month's notice, I would have definitely picked that up.

You might want to consider getting it on a payment plan while it is available. You also have a 30 day return privilege if you change your mind.

Then pay it off next month - might be worth an additional $5 dollars.

My wife gets paid tomorrow, I might be able to get her to agree to starting out the payment plan...hoping.  I also have the payment plan going for Logos 5 Gold, which is where the hangup is.  Thank you for the idea, I will try to do that.

[EDIT]  I guess we posted at the same time, yeah, I guess that would work.  THANK YOU!!!

Quick thought - don't spend what you don't have.  If paying it off in a month will work, go for it.  But if you are really concerned about whether you can afford it, then it is probably better to delay or skip the purchase.  

Probably 

Moody Publishers Customer Serice
820 N. LaSalle Blvd.
Chicago, IL 60610
Phone: 800-678-8812
Phone: 312-329-2101
Fax: 800-678-3329
Fax: 312-329-2144
Email: mpcustomerservice@moody.edu

( from http://www.moodypublishers.com/pub_main.aspx?id=41801 )

I just sent Moody an e-mail. It was nice. I was just making sure they know that many costumers (and future costumers!) want Moody titles on Logos.

I suggest everyone do this. It takes one minute.

I was able to work it out to make the first payment on the payment plan option[:D], will be paying the rest off in a few weeks, so happy!!!

I sent an email. I basically pointed out that because of my investment in Logos I wouldn't be switching to another platform. I pointed out they would loose any future purchases that I might have considered making, and that many other Logos users would be in the same boat. I told them I hoped they would reconsider allowing Logos to sell Moody titles.

I think they are  needlessly shooting themselves in the foot.