Too easy to create or wipe out a collection by mistake

There is no requirement to save or confirm changes to an existing collection when you edit a collection. In fact it's kind of spooky how easily they get created. I've created several by accident when I was just poking around trying to learn the feature and didn't realize I'd left these scattered sandbox collections around. It's easy enough to delete them, I know, but I expect to have to save it before it actually gets created. I guess this is an aspect of L4 I haven't gotten used to yet, because everything else user-generated works that way too. Perhaps most users find that easier to use and they like it?

But the danger of this approach is that it's also too easy to accidentally obliterate a collection you'd set up, if you think that by typing in a new name and a new rule you will create a new collection. You can't just go to your already open Collections tab and start creating a new one just like that. You actually have to click New first to get a new "Unnamed Collection" and then you can begin to type a new name and rule.

Which is worse? Having to save after setting up your collection (and of course being reminded to do so if you try to close the collection before saving it, the way Windows apps have worked forever), or having garbage collections show up unexpectedly ("Unnamed Collection (2)" and "Unnamed Collection (3)") and being able to accidentally overwrite an existing collection too easily with no warning?

Is this an issue that only an experienced geek would ever run into? Sometimes I need a reality check!

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Valerie Pobog

I found this odd too. I totally expect to be prompted after creating the collection. Feels incomplete.

Dave Hooton

Is this an issue that only an experienced geek would ever run into? Sometimes I need a reality check!

Yes! I nearly wiped a Collection or two that way and accumulated a few UnNamed ones. The objects on the Files menu also work the same way and I did lose a Syntax Search!

I think I'm in the groove now, as I haven't returned to those errant ways.

Jon

You're right Rosie, there's no logical reason to me for it to open up to the first collection in the list, instead it should open up to a new collection... And rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name, so that it is only saved once you've chosen to give it a name. (and I guess you'd need a prompt if you were closing it before you'd named it).

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45122#Comment_45122

You're right Rosie, there's no logical reason to me for it to open up to the first collection in the list, instead it should open up to a new collection... And rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name, so that it is only saved once you've chosen to give it a name. (and I guess you'd need a prompt if you were closing it before you'd named it).

Jon,

I have to agree 100%...this was discussed during the beta plenty of times....it seems dumb that this behavior would be the default..

Jack Caviness

There is no requirement to save or confirm changes to an existing collection when you edit a collection. I

This needs to be fixed. Add my vote to the chorus. I just found 3 identical collections named "Favorite Commentaries". The same problem exists with layouts and probably with every other user-generated function. Let me do some of my own thinking.

spitzerpl

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45131#Comment_45131

Agreed. I would also like to be able to "lock/unlock" the collection editor. Locking would collapse the rule, naming, and exception fields and prevent manipulating the contents of the collection. You could also call it "edit mode". Whenever you open the collection editor it is in viewing mode and you have to select "edit mode" to create or change a collection.

Damian McGrath

Add my vote for what it is worth

Bohuslav Wojnar

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45135#Comment_45135

Agreed. I would also like to be able to "lock/unlock" the collection editor. Locking would collapse the rule, naming, and exception fields and prevent manipulating the contents of the collection. You could also call it "edit mode". Whenever you open the collection editor it is in viewing mode and you have to select "edit mode" to create or change a collection.

I think that is what would solve the problem. I suggested that already in the Beta days. I don't like the too easy way to change the rule or whatever in the existing collection. Also, when I just open the collection to browse the resources, I don't need half of the screen space covered by the tools needed for the editing of the collection.

TCBlack

You're obviously not alone Rosie. I've deleted a few collections on accident.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45122#Comment_45122

rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name,

Sorry to disagree on this point, but I have to admit that I would have lost work several times if I didn't know to find it under "unnamed" - collections should work like the other resources in this regard.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45345#Comment_45345

rather than having Unnamed Collection as the default name, it should stay as an empty field until you give it a name,

Sorry to disagree on this point, but I have to admit that I would have lost work several times if I didn't know to find it under "unnamed" - collections should work like the other resources in this regard.

I think the point all of us have been making is that there wouldn't need to be any "Unnamed" collections (or any other resources) if these features worked like sensible Windows/Mac features which all seasoned users of both platforms have become familar with, because you'd be asked to give it a name before leaving the screen where you created it. Yes, "Unnamed" could be proposed as the default if you like, but at least you'd have to think about it, so you wouldn't go off scratching your head if you were looking for the collection (or handout or whatever) that you'd created. It's just silly to have all these dummy ones being left scattered around when the user didn't really intend to create them but was just exploring the UI in order to learn it. Windows/Mac penetration into the world is so high now that I don't expect Logos realistically thinks it's going to be growing its user base primarily among people who have never used a GUI before, so inventing a new way for a windows-like feature to behave which is different from the way all other similar features behave is going to confuse people more than it's going to help them.

Alas, it's probably too late to change now because they didn't listen to people complaining about it during the beta, but let me add one more emphatic cry that this was a poor decision, just in case anyone's listening... (hello -- lo -- lo -- lo?) Ah, echos only, I see... [:)]

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48220#Comment_48220

If not a save dialog like is standard on most programs, then at least the ability for the program to warn you that you are about to delete a document.

Karen Campbell

I expect to have to save it before it actually gets created

[Y] +1

Larry Schmid

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/45135#Comment_45135

Agreed. I would also like to be able to "lock/unlock" the collection editor. Locking would collapse the rule, naming, and exception fields and prevent manipulating the contents of the collection. You could also call it "edit mode". Whenever you open the collection editor it is in viewing mode and you have to select "edit mode" to create or change a collection.

This is an excellent idea. Not only would this protect the existing collections but also replace a handy L3 feature missing in L4. There are times I want to browse a collection. In L3, I'd pop open the library and select the collection and off I go. A 'VIew' mode mode would serve both these ends.

Chris Elford

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48360#Comment_48360

+1 to Rosie's and Phil's suggestions here

Chris

Ken Avery

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48371#Comment_48371

Agree - I have messed this up also [Y]

Clinton Thomas

being able to accidentally overwrite an existing collection too easily with no warning?

This is the issue I have faced. I think either a way to stop the overwrite or undo the changes is needed (or both).

Peter Bongers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48263#Comment_48263

Have to agree with the prevailing sentiment on this. Please fix this![:^)]

Just because something is easier to do, doesn't mean it's desirable to do![:O]

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48458#Comment_48458

Once they have been created and saved they should be allowed to safely live in their drawer/drop down until right clicked on and deleted.

I too have "lost" more than one - one "wrong" minor change as you try to understand or experiment with this esoteric syntax and you are...(fill in your own word).

With all due respect to the "keeners" here - these things (once you get past the"easy" one-choice collections) are NOT intuitive. Please do not make it harder by having them "destroy" themselves. "Saved" should mean just that, "saved." (No theological flame wars, please).

Steve

John Fidel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48768#Comment_48768

At a minimum have a popup.. do you want to delete this collection? I accidentally hit the x and delete one today.

Van Vowell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48768#Comment_48768

I've been a Windows user from the very start (1981). Every program except Logos 4 has a save command or an "are you sure" prompt! This goes for Layouts too!!!!!

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48931#Comment_48931

Every program except Logos 4 has a save command or an "are you sure" prompt! This goes for Layouts too!!!!!

I've used several programs with auto-save/no-explicit-save features but I do want an "are you sure" prompt on the delete because the icon is ambiguious - it means close or delete depending upon context - to my mind, a bad practice in itself.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/49157#Comment_49157

Glad to see there are so many other people who feel the way I do. Disappointing to have no replies from Logos employees yet. (What, it's been a whole week and I'm already impatient -- goes to show how spectacular their response time has normally been that I expect it now all the time!) But I guess this really should have been posted under Suggestions. I wish there were a way to move entire threads to a different forum. If I reposted the suggestion there now, it would be missing all the accompanying yeas.

Damian McGrath

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/49169#Comment_49169

I wish there were a way to move entire threads to a different forum. If I reposted the suggestion there now, it would be missing all the accompanying yeas.

I'm sure they would be repeated and then some.....

Disappointing to have no replies from Logos employees yet.

My experience is that it is rare to see any response on issues related to UI.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/48931#Comment_48931

I've been a Windows user from the very start (1981). Every program except Logos 4 has a save command or an "are you sure" prompt! This goes for Layouts too!!!!!

Whoa! I just ran into this with Layouts too (I know a couple of you have mentioned that). Absolutely no confirmation when you save a new layout if you're about to overwrite one with the same name. This is very problematic.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/51084#Comment_51084

I've been a Windows user from the very start (1981). Every program except Logos 4 has a save command or an "are you sure" prompt! This goes for Layouts too!!!!!

Whoa! I just ran into this with Layouts too (I know a couple of you have mentioned that). Absolutely no confirmation when you save a new layout if you're about to overwrite one with the same name. This is very problematic.

Furthermore...it's odd that if you try this with Collections, or Reference Ranges, it creates a new one with "(2)" appended to its name and leaves the existing one alone, but if you do it with layouts it wipes out the existing one. And if you do it with Custom Bible Study templates, it creates another one with the exact same name (indistinguishable). Three different behaviors! Why the inconsistency? Is Logos trying to simplify the UI by guessing what the user wants in each of these cases and deciding that it's something different depending on what type of item the user is creating? This is poor guesswork at best, and very confusing. Because even simple users who don't want to fuss with a lot of program settings and confirm-this-or-that dialog boxes do begin to notice and expect consistency across the application, and they can be mystified when it isn't there. Or rather they don't notice it when it's working consistently, but when it doesn't, that's when they notice and get confused.