BUG?: Bible Word Study - Translation and Bible Selection

My default bible is the NLT and it has a Greek reverse-interlinear.

Can you give a screen shot of the top of your prioritization?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486711#Comment_486711

My default bible is the NLT and it has a Greek reverse-interlinear.

Can you give a screen shot of the top of your prioritization?

hi Alabama,

here is a screenshot:

thanks

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486713#Comment_486713

After looking at mine, I think it is a bug. Can you change your subject line prefix to reflect BUG:?

When I change the bible from ESV to NLT and save my Layout, the change is not stored and it goes back to ESV.

Check your Template for the setting in the Translation section (Edit Guide Template in the BWS dropdown menu). Mine is set to Default Bible, and it allows NLT or ESV to be used depending on bible Prioritization.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486715#Comment_486715

Just for clarification: the "bug" behavior occurs when I open a saved Layout, call it LO1, that has the BWS opened in a panel. When I change the bible version (in the Translation section) from ESV to NLT, save my Layout, close Logos 5, then go back to LO1 with the BWS, the bible version under Translation is ESV, not NLT.

However, when I open Logos 5 and directly open the BWS Guide, the Translation section for a greek word (logos) uses the NLT, which is what I expect.

Also, I'm wondering how Logos 5 handles the BWS Translation section for bibles that do not have an interlinear (greek or hebrew, or both).

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486719#Comment_486719

When I change the bible from ESV to NLT and save my Layout, the change is not stored and it goes back to ESV.

Check your Template for the setting in the Translation section (Edit Guide Template in the BWS dropdown menu). Mine is set to Default Bible, and it allows NLT or ESV to be used depending on bible Prioritization.

Hi Dave,

Ah, I didn't check this - thanks for the tip. In the BWS template for the Translation section, I have it set as "Default Bible." Should I change it to NLT? My setting should work, however, correct?

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486719#Comment_486719

Mine is set to Default Bible, and it allows NLT or ESV to be used depending on bible Prioritization.

It appears to be broken, unless I am doing something wrong.

In the first screen shot, you can see that I have the setting as you suggested… to use the "default bible"
In the second screen shot, you can see that the highest prioritized bible with an RI is the NASB (I'm not actually sure why, but that is another issue).
In the third screen shot, you can see that the ESV is what was actually used.

Have I missed something, or is this a bug? If the later, let me know and I will create a thread in the beta forum.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486715#Comment_486715

After looking at mine, I think it is a bug. Can you change your subject line prefix to reflect BUG:?

done

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486729#Comment_486729

done

Thanks. If Dave tells me he thinks there might be a bug, I'll create a new thread in the Beta forum. Otherwise, if there is something I am not understanding, I'll leave my stupidity here. [:D]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486730#Comment_486730

Thanks for looking into this.

I may not understand how the BWS should handle the template setting and/or the setting found in the Translation section. However, after looking at this again, the BWS behavior is correct when I launch the tool from the NLT bible. That is, in John 1:1 using the NLT, when I launch the BWS, it correctly uses the NLT in the Translation section. Same thing with NASB95, NIV, ESV, etc. that allows a greek lemma for BWS. Whichever bible I use to launch the BWS for a greek word, the BWS will use that bible version under the Translation section.

When I change the translation from one bible to another, then save my layout, it does not keep that setting under Translation section. So...it's not clear to me what "Default Bible" really means in the BWS template for the Translation section (and the other sections too).

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486736#Comment_486736

In my testing, I didn't run the BWS from any translation… I ran it from the menu. If the behavior you described is what is meant by "default Bible," they have chosen poor nomenclature, since they use the term "default Bible" differently in other places… I don't think that is what is meant, however. The behavior you describe seems reasonable to me. If you run a BWS from a given translation, the BWS should use that translations RI.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486742#Comment_486742

I agree, Alabama, that the nomenclature is causing confusion. Perhaps in the template they should remove the selection "default bible" altogether.

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486745#Comment_486745

I agree, Alabama, that the nomenclature is causing confusion. Perhaps in the template they should remove the selection "default bible" altogether.

The nomenclature is confusing only if understood the one way. It is entirely possible (probable in my mind) that "default bible" DOES mean "default bible" in the same sense as used elsewhere, but there is a bug.

To clarify, however, I don't think that it is a bug for a BWS started from a right click to bring up a BWS using the translation that was right clicked. In that case, the "default bible" preference SHOULD be overridden by the translation used in the right click menu. It is only a bug when you run a BWS from the tools menu and another translation is used other than your "default bible."

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486724#Comment_486724

Just for clarification: the "bug" behavior occurs when I open a saved Layout, call it LO1, that has the BWS opened in a panel. When I change the bible version (in the Translation section) from ESV to NLT, save my Layout, close Logos 5, then go back to LO1 with the BWS, the bible version under Translation is ESV, not NLT.

I can reproduce this behaviour if I run the BWS from a word in ESV (with NLT as preferred bible) and then change to NLT. This seems reasonable to me because NLT was a local change within a BWS based on the ESV.

However, the Lemma section result comes from NLT being the preferred RI bible e.g. πίστις = 243 with ESV preferred, but 240 with NLT preferred. If a bug is to be declared, I would say that the Lemma section is the candidate as it should also reflect the bible from which the BWS is run.

The Default Bible setting in the template is only to be understood as Preferred bible in a situation where the source of the word is not an RI e.g. when you directly enter a word into BWS, or where the bible you use to run the BWS is not an RI.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486726#Comment_486726

Mine is set to Default Bible, and it allows NLT or ESV to be used depending on bible Prioritization.

It appears to be broken, unless I am doing something wrong.

In the first screen shot, you can see that I have the setting as you suggested… to use the "default bible"

In the second screen shot, you can see that the highest prioritized bible with an RI is the NASB (I'm not actually sure why, but that is another issue).

In the third screen shot, you can see that the ESV is what was actually used.

Have I missed something, or is this a bug? If the later, let me know and I will create a thread in the beta forum.

Sorry, as you see from my previous reply I didn't fully define "Default Bible". If you ran the BWS from the ESV then what you got is correct.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486781#Comment_486781

If you ran the BWS from the ESV then what you got is correct.

I didn't, so it is (a bug). I'll create a new thread later today.

Brisa Davis

I am having some trouble reproducing this issue. Does it only occur for certain searches, or for any search?

If you could enable logging, reproduce the issue and then reply with your logs, that would also be helpful.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486904#Comment_486904

Does it only occur for certain searches, or for any search?

I don't know… I will check.

If you could enable logging, reproduce the issue and then reply with your logs

Here are my logs: 3252.LogosLogs.20130507-134622.zip

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486914#Comment_486914

Brisa - In my previous attempts, I had used the Greek lemma which was previously listed when I ran the BWS, and each time it came back with the ESV. I have since acquired a new lemma, and everything appears to be functioning correctly. I even switched prioritization around and the BWS would follow suit. Perhaps it was an isolated bug? Hopefully the logs will reveal something to the devs.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486904#Comment_486904

Hi Brisa

I use the following steps:

1. Change my default prioritized bible from NLT to another bible (RSV for example) Ok, RSV lacks RI, so I used NIV

2. Open the Bible Word Study Guide and either...

2b. enter a new greek word in the text box, with All Passages filter on, and create the BWS report....or

2a. use the existing greek word in the text box, with All Passages filter on, and create the BWS report

Edit: I saw Alabama's post and tried a new greek word; my resulted in a report that uses NLT, not my default bible RSV. Interesting.

I changed my default prioritized bible to NIV, and the BWS report appears to work "correctly" when I enter a new greek word. This confirms Alabama's earlier finding.

When I execute those steps, the frequency histogram uses NLT in both the Lemma and Translation sections.

This also happens when I launch my customized BWS.

My template settings for BWS are:

Question: What should be the correct behavior of the BWS when the template settings are "Default Bible"?

See also Dave Hooton's comments 6th posts above.

thanks,

David

Log files: 3247.Win7Pro64-Logos5 Log Files.zip

Brisa Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486927#Comment_486927

I changed my default prioritized bible to NIV, and the BWS report appears to work "correctly" when I enter a new greek word. This confirms Alabama's earlier finding.

Is it possible that the BWS you were running on the original Greek word was a saved BWS, because you had added a title or made some other edit to cause it to be saved? If the BWS is saved, it will show up in the BWS list in the Guides menu.

(If the image doesn't show up, just click on it. The forum is picky with images sometimes.) If it was saved, then it is possible that you had modified the settings for the Lemma and/or Translation sections of that BWS. If these settings had been modified, then whatever settings were in place in the BWS template would not be reflected in the saved BWS.

Question: What should be the correct behavior of the BWS when the template settings are "Default Bible"?

The correct behavior for a new/unsaved BWS when the template settings are "Default Bible" would be for a BWS run from the Guides menu to use the preferred Bible in both the Lemma and Translation sections. A BWS started from a Bible, such as the ESV, should use that Bible instead of the preferred Bible.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/487553#Comment_487553

Is it possible that the BWS you were running on the original Greek word was a saved BWS

My default prioritized bible in L5 is the NLT. Originally, I was seeing the Translation section use ESV each time I launched a saved layout. But I also observed the same behavior when I closed L5, launched L5 and open the WBS from Guides menu. When I removed the greek word in cache, entered a new greek word, and then ran the report, the Translation section used my default bible NLT.

The correct behavior for a new/unsaved BWS when the template settings are "Default Bible" would be for a BWS run from the Guides menu to use the preferred Bible in both the Lemma and Translation sections. A BWS started from a Bible, such as the ESV, should use that Bible instead of the preferred Bible.

Ok. Thank you, Brisa, for your follow-up.

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/487553#Comment_487553

Is it possible that the BWS you were running on the original Greek word was a saved BWS, because you had added a title or made some other edit to cause it to be saved? If the BWS is saved, it will show up in the BWS list in the Guides menu.

There is still a problem with the lemma section as per my observations on the previous page I made sure none of my runs came from saved Guides

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/487605#Comment_487605

Brisa,

My default bible is the NIV in these examples.

For a new (not customized) or unsaved BWS launched by using the right-mouse click menu of a greek lemma, I observe the following;

Lemma section uses the prioritized default bible (NIV) for the frequency histogram.
Translation section frequency histogram uses the bible (NASB95) that contained the highlighted word.
This confirms your statement above.

For a new (not customized) or unsaved BWS launched from the Guides menu, I observe the following:

Lemma section uses the prioritized default bible (NIV) for the frequency histogram.
Translation section uses the prioritized default bible (NIV) for the frequency histogram.
This confirms your statement above.

I have a saved layout that contains a customized BWS. From its template, the Translation section is set to use “Default Bible.” In my layout, I observe the following:

Lemma section uses my prioritized default bible (NIV).
Translation section uses the NLT.
In the Translation section, I change the bible from NLT to LEB, then save the layout.
I make sure the cloud synchronization is done, then I close L5.
I launch L5 and open the layout and observe:
1. Lemma section uses the NIV.
2. Translation section uses NLT.
3. Should it suppose use LEB?

I launch a BWS from the Guides menu, enter a greek word, and run the report:

Lemma section uses my highest prioritized bible (NIV).
Translation section uses my highest prioritized bible (NIV).
This confirms your statement above.
In Translation section, I change the bible from NIV to NKJV and save the layout.
After synchronization is done, I close L5 and re-launch it.
I open the layout and observe that both Lemma and Translation sections use NIV.

Should the Translation section use NKJV?

What Dave Hooten is saying is that both Lemma and Translation sections in the BWS (when launching from a bible) should use that bible version in the histograms.

David

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/487553#Comment_487553

to use the preferred Bible in both the Lemma and Translation sections

Note that the template for the BWS does not allow a bible selection in the Lemma. So, I guess that the "default bible" for the Lemma is hard-coded?

Brisa Davis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/486777#Comment_486777

If a bug is to be declared, I would say that the Lemma section is the candidate as it should also reflect the bible from which the BWS is run.

There is currently an active case looking into this behavior. I have added a link to this thread to that case.