Official: Minimum Crossgrade and free engine download are coming!
We're very sorry that the Logos 5 upgrade message hasn't been clear enough.
Logos 5 will be available at many price points, and the free engine will be available soon. But it works best with new content and resources, which are available now as great deals!
We are working to improve the web site and messaging.
- Our packages have been dramatically reconfigured. (For lots of reasons.) Our new dynamic pricing engine calculates a custom price for you to 'upgrade' to any package. If you had 'Gold' in Logos 4, you don't have to move to 'Gold' in Logos 5 -- it's just a different collection of books. You could move to Bronze or Starter or Diamond -- whatever you choose, you only pay for new content. That's the same as always, and hasn't changed.
- Because the collections changed so much, though (some are gone, others are new, ones with the same name are very different), some users are seeing "Gold to Gold" or "Platinum to Platinum" upgrade prices that seem way too high. This reflects all the new content -- data sets, books, etc. -- in the new collections. But not everyone wants/needs/can-afford a lot of new books right now.
- There will be a Minimum Crossgrade for Logos 5. It is not ready yet, and pricing has not been established, but we expect it'll be under $100. (It will use dynamic pricing as well, but will probably be the same price for most users since almost all the content will be completely new to Logos 5.)
- The Minimal Crossgrade is being configured, but we expect it will contain all/most of the unique new data sets (Timeline, Bible Facts, Clause Database, Bible Sense Lexicon, Phrases, Preaching Themes, Thematic Outlines, etc.). Some Logos 5 features only "light-up" or add value when specific books are present, and we're figuring out which ones should be included in this crossgrade.
(The Minimal Crossgrade for Logos 5 is not the same as "Gold to Gold" or a 'same level' crossgrade -- it will not add the books in "Gold 5" to an existing "Gold 4" -- just the new data sets.)
NEW, Friday, 11/9: We've been looking at the interdependence of some of the data sets, and the fact that even for original purchasers, some of the new data sets / resources are only in Gold and above. So we're planning to split the crossgrade into two levels; the smaller one will likely be under $100, and appropriate for someone with CHL, BSL, Leader's, or Scholar's, and the larger one with have the language-related resources and data sets, too, and be somewhere over $100, depending on what you already own. It will be for people who had Scholar's, Silver, Gold, etc.
- The Logos 5 software engine will be available for free download in the future. It is not available yet, but will be. Upgrading just the engine will let you use some new functionality, take advantage of the new user interface, etc. You'll get the search helps, bibliography report, and more. But features that require specific new data sets -- like the new Timeline, Bible Facts, and the Bible Sense Lexicon -- aren't included.
- Why are these not available now? 17 years ago we made a decision to sell content, not code. We did this because we didn't like how people were forced to buy upgrades to maintain access to their library when computers and operating systems changed or were upgraded. We wanted our users to be able to buy an electronic book and know that they wouldn't have to pay again to read it just because Microsoft Windows was updated.
Over the years this turned into "you only buy books, the software is free!" And that has been the case for 17 years, and still is. And for all those years we have continued to offer free updates, free phone support, and excellent customer service. And we still will.
But we pay the bills by selling new content. So when we have a major upgrade we reconfigure our bundles, create high-value collections, and hope that we can sell enough content to cover the ongoing, cost of free upgrades and free support for everyone who ever bought an ebook in our format.
You do not have to buy a level-to-level crossgrade. You do not need to buy more books. We will have a very affordable Minimal Crossgrade. We will have a free engine download. But since we have limited resources -- only so much bandwidth, servers, and (the real limit) phone-lines and people available to take calls and answer email -- we are focusing on selling those new content bundles first.
Once the phone queue slows down, and once we aren't helping people who do want to upgrade to a larger collection at a great price, we will put the Minimal Crossgrade up for sale. Then, some time after we've taken care of people who want to purchase that affordable crossgrade, we will put the free engine online, and offer the same level of free, friendly, phone or email support we've been providing for two decades -- even to people who bought one package a decade ago and have never purchased anything since.
- Yes, but when? We're not sure, but it won't be a terribly long wait -- though it may feel that way if you've watched the Logos 5 videos! I know it's hard to wait when it looks (and is!) so cool....
You'll soon be able to move to the Logos 5 engine at no cost at all. You'll even have an option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost.
I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start, and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives.
-- Bob Pritchett, President/CEO
Comments
Bob, thanks for the clarification. I'm sure none of uswill fuss about Logos making money. We understand you have to to stay in business and keep us in touch with the cutting edge of electronic Bible study. (A necessity for you and a blessing for us.) Knowing that Logos has been a business of long-standing integrity and honesty put us in somewhat of a quandry trying to figure out exactly what was going on with Logos 5. It's not that we felt you were intentinally cheating us; we just felt like you were neglecting us loyal and longtime customers.
I (we) anxiously await the soon-coming (we hope it won't be too long) free upgrade to Logos 5. Thanks again for all you and Logos do to help us be better Bible students. Peace to all.
L. Ritchie
Thanks for the information.
What I want to be able to do is purchase ALL (not most) of Logos 5 new features/data sets without purchasing any new books - unless they are necesary for the new functionality.
None of the books in the L5 Gold upgrade seemed of much value - and hardly any were 'New to me'.
So, will ALL of the new features be available in a minimum crossgrade or should I purchase the Gold upgrade now to ensure that I do have them.
Since I have purchased lots of books for L4, the current cost of Gold upgrade to me is not bad ($272.00) - so minimal crossgrade would obviously need to be significantly less.
Pining (patiently?) for Logos 5 so I would appreciate a definitive answer plus more a precise time for availability of minimal crossgrade. Would you recommend sticking with Gold upgrade?
Many thanks
B
21,000 reviews for this post. Isn't it time to release a minimum crossgrade [;)]
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
21,000 reviews for this post. Isn't it time to release a minimum crossgrade
Winner! [Y]
Kempson, considering that You have everything You want from L5 Gold, I would recommend You the Big Crossgrade if You want full functionality and datasets. And to not upgrade nor downgrade at all. There are two different crossgrades comming, one bigger with full functionality and datasets, and one smaller.
The dynamic pricing applies to crossgrades too, Your price will be discounted.
Would you recommend sticking with Gold upgrade?
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 12
Kempson, considering that You have everything You want from L5 Gold, I would recommend You the Big Crossgrade if You want full functionality and datasets. And to not upgrade nor downgrade at all. There are two different crossgrades comming, one bigger with full functionality and datasets, and one smaller.
The dynamic pricing applies to crossgrades too, Your price will be discounted.Would you recommend sticking with Gold upgrade?
Just to add my belief that this is good advice. [Y]
Shame I did not know this before I upgraded to Diamond. Many of the books in Diamond I already had. Now, I'm making a car payment each month for language books I don't need or use, for other sets I did not choose. I would have gladly paid 250 for an engine upgrade and would have chosen quite different product for the money I am spending.
Rickey
Shame I did not know this before I upgraded to Diamond. Many of the books in Diamond I already had. Now, I'm making a car payment each month for language books I don't need or use, for other sets I did not choose. I would have gladly paid 250 for an engine upgrade and would have chosen quite different product for the money I am spending.
Rickey, why did you spend so much just to get L5 functionality? You didn't have to upgrade to Diamond, especially if it had lots of stuff you didn't want.
But there is hope. You can call Logos and ask to cancel your upgrade. They have a 30 day money back guarantee and it seems you would be someone who would want to take advantage of that.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
I suppose I upgraded it because that was what the upgrade calculator said to do to get the upgrade. I spent the better part of two days going through my library and what was offered, compared what I did not want to how much I would spend on things I did want, and got TIRED HEAD trying to figure it out.
I guess I was just old and stupid.
I guess I was just old and stupid.
Rickey, that isn't fair to yourself. Call Logos Sales and ask them to refund your money. There's nothing old and stupid about that. Be a happy customer, not one who is unhappy at Logos or at himself.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
I suppose I upgraded it because that was what the upgrade calculator said to do to get the upgrade.
Yeah, I still think the marketing of 5 is still purposefully confusing in places... but, you should definitely return the base package if you're having buyer's remorse. I'm sure Logo's would rather have your long-term business than your short-term money.
Shame I did not know this before I upgraded to Diamond. Many of the books in Diamond I already had. Now, I'm making a car payment each month for language books I don't need or use, for other sets I did not choose. I would have gladly paid 250 for an engine upgrade and would have chosen quite different product for the money I am spending.
Rickey
I'm sure Logos will refund your money if you are dissatisfied. Call customer support to fix it.
MacBook Pro (2019), ThinkPad E540
Thanks for the clear explanation Bob. I will be moving from Logos 4 Silver to Logos 5 Silver and then will save to move to the Gold. Keep moving onward and upward.
Jesse
Bob:
I know that I am a bit late to this party. I have Logos 4 Leader's Library. I have had it since it first was available as an alpha on the Mac. My experience was unfortunately less than stellar. I had a lot of issues with crashes and stalls long after the official Gold Master release of L4 on the Mac. So much so that I gave up on it for more than a year and half because I couldn't rely on it during my classes.
Recently a friend from the forums made me aware of Logos 5 and all the improvements that have been made. So I uninstalled and reinstalled my library with the Logos 5 engine. I must say I am impressed with the difference. It works so well now and the mobile app has come a long way as well.
Over the last 10 days or so I have been using my L4 Library/L5 engine to do a lot of study and using the mobile app on the iPad when I am work. I am really enjoying. (This is what I was expecting when I bought L4).
My issue now is that I want to upgrade so I can get things like the timeline, sermon starter, etc. I don't have a need for many more resources. So the minimal crossgrade seems like a win - win for me. However my custom pricing is $155 for the minimal crossgrade? According to your post here it should be under $100 or if there would be 2 crossgrades one for under $100 and one slightly over but I don't see it.
Also It appears(though I am aware it is not) the starter bundle would include the minimal crossgrade datasets.
Could you please clarify the pricing from what is listed in this post to what I am seeing?
Hi Heath
According to your post here it should be under $100 or if there would be 2 crossgrades one for under $100 and one slightly over but I don't see it.
In Bob's updated post - http://community.logos.com/forums/p/58259/414636.aspx#414636 - he talked about the higher price being "somewhere over $100, depending on what you already own". if I remember correctly, this ended up being around $155 for most people.
Also It appears(though I am aware it is not) the starter bundle would include the minimal crossgrade datasets.
There is a discussion of this at http://community.logos.com/forums/p/59775/425408.aspx. And the wiki article at http://wiki.logos.com/Upgrade_or_Crossgrade is helpful in explaining what is provided what what option.
Could you please clarify the pricing from what is listed in this post to what I am seeing?
http://blog.logos.com/2012/11/5-ways-to-move-to-logos-5/ is where Logos outlined the different ways of moving to Logos 5
Does this help at all?
Graham
... According to your post here it should be under $100 or if there would be 2 crossgrades one for under $100 and one slightly over but I don't see it.
Regular price is $ 79.95 => http://www.logos.com/product/28494/logos-5-core-datasets
If purchase Logos 5 Core Datasets, then dynamic upgrade price for => http://www.logos.com/product/28376/logos-5-minimal-crossgrade reduces from regular price of $ 159.95 to under $ 100.
One friend upgraded from Logos 4 Platinum to Logos 5 Silver, followed by $ 6.14 for Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade.
Caveat: larger bundle purchase has smaller price per resource.
Keep Smiling [:)]
One friend upgraded from Logos 4 Platinum to Logos 5 Silver, followed by $ 6.14 for Logos 5 Minimal Crossgrade.
This is the upgrade path I chose and I have not regretted it at all. [:D]
Making Disciples! Logos Ecosystem = LogosMax on Microsoft Surface Pro 7 (Win11), Android app on tablet, FSB on iPhone & iPad mini, Proclaim (Proclaim Remote on Fire Tablet).
My upgrade path started way back in L2! I had been given a copy a long time ago, and for some reason it didn't ever click with me. Perhaps it was the L2 format, or just the resources... Either way, I had to use L3 so that I could cite journals at my bible college and despised it. The set up was one computer, scores of users (a practice no longer employed).
L4 was just reaching the end of its product life cycle and a professor at seminary introduced me to L4.
I was hooked and purchased L4 Scholars Silver. Then within a couple of weeks L5 came out. Chaos... Do I keep L4, do I call and ask for L5 instead? Did I get stuck with the OLD model, when I should really have been told to wait a week and buy the new model? The forums helped me understand what was going on, and I eventually purchased L5 Bronze, which I later canceled opting for Silver, and recently upgraded to Platinum.
So my upgrade path has been L2 Level 3 -> L4 Silver -> L5 Platinum.
With a goodly number of third party L3 packages added on, and scores of CP books.
I guess my point is you may feel like you have enough digital books now... but give it time, and as you get used to the software its value will grow in your estimation. Then you might find your self looking to replace your print books... At that point, the large packages are a good option...
It cost me less to go from L4 silver -> L5 platinum than it would have cost to buy just the parts of Platinum that I wanted.
L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
To quote Bob Pritchett, . . . "Once the phone queue slows down, and once we aren't helping people who do want to upgrade to a larger collection at a great price, we will put theMinimal Crossgrade up for sale. Then, some time after we've taken care of people who want to purchase that affordable crossgrade, we will put the free engine online, and offer the same level of free, friendly, phone or email support we've been providing for two decades -- even to people who bought one package a decade ago and have never purchased anything since.
- Yes, but when? We're not sure, but it won't be a terribly long wait -- though it may feel that way if you've watched the Logos 5 videos! I know it's hard to wait when it looks (and is!) so cool....
You'll soon be able to move to the Logos 5 engine at no cost at all. You'll even have an option for adding the coolest new data sets at a very reasonable cost.
I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start, and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives.
-- Bob Pritchett, President/CEO
My question . . . Has the minimal crossgrade came and/or the free Logos 5 engine come out yet?
Thanks for your reply!
- Bob Manuel
My question . . . Has the minimal crossgrade came and/or the free Logos 5 engine come out yet?
Yes it has, and I believe you download it from this page: http://www.logos.com/installation
My question . . . Has the minimal crossgrade came and/or the free Logos 5 engine come out yet?
- Bob Manuel
loooooong ago :-)
free engine: http://downloads.logos.com/LBS5/Installer/LogosSetup.exe
MC: http://www.logos.com/product/28376/logos-5-minimal-crossgrade
Have joy in the Lord! 
Yes, they have. The crossgrade and Core Datasets came in December, and 5.0 free engine in January, if I remember correctly.
The 5.1 free engine this week at the same time for everyone: www.logos.com/installation
All basepackages are still the same first Edition since the release of 5 in the turn of the month October/November 2012,
but may be altered at some point before the release of 6:
My question . . . Has the minimal crossgrade came and/or the free Logos 5 engine come out yet?
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 12
Hi Bob - Still disappointed in the fact that those who visit the upgrade page have no idea of what you outlined in your post.
You can type "Logos 5 upgrade" or Logos 5 crossgrade" on the main search engine at Logos and find nothing about what you wrote. No link to your post.
The distinct impression when you look at the upgrade page is that these are the only options there are and they are expensive (I currently own the Platinum Edition).
Why not put something on the upgrade page about Logos' plan make the free software engine and minimal crossgrade option? That way your customers can make a fully informed choice.
The lack of clarity (and it is 10 days since you posted your information) is still going on, and I do find it offensive and even deceptive.
Len
Offensive? Really? REALLY? I.JUST.CAN'T.
In HIS Eternal Service,
Tom Castle
**If we will do God's work, in God's way, at God's time, with God's power, we shall have God's blessings!!**
Isn't it time to display Christian charity (old KJV word for agape) one towards the other even though there is disagreement between one and the other? Speak the truth in love but rather choose to be defrauded than to defraud (goes on both ends). Such smattering among Christian brethren speaks of a grevious witness to Christ Himself. I pray choose to go separate ways if that is the intention. But there is no need to besmirch one's character or attitude based on perception. Whether Logos has done right or not is immaterial but our attitude in response to this neglect (whether intentional or unintentional) nevertheless displays what we speak of Christ by our words and actions. It is time to put this thing behind us brethren. Walk in love one towards the other afterall we have been commanded by our LORD Jesus in Matthew 5:44, "...love ye your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, pray for them that despitefully use you and persecute you."
In Christ Alone and for His Glory
Naveen
2 Timothy 2:19
Another great post, Naveen. And very fitting Bible references. Another passage that spoke to my sinful heart in this matter is James 4. Our feedback is important to Logos or they would not host this blog and monitor and respond, all the way to the top brass of Logos. On the other side of the coin, it seems that Logos is similarly doing soul-searching of their own. Your point that all of this should comport with the Word of God is excellent!
In both conversations I have had with Logos reps, they have made a point of the multitude who are happily upgrading their base packages and the relative few who, like me, are whining. Yet they are indicating they will respond to the concerns and desires of the few in a positive way -- it is just not their priority at the moment.
SDG,
Jeff
Actually I am using the word Bob Pritchett used to sum up his original posting that started this thread:
"I'm so sorry we didn't make all of this clearer right from the start,
and I hope you won't be offended by our "paying the bills" focus on
selling the revenue-generating upgrade bundles for just a short while
before we offer the low-cost and free alternatives."
The fact that after 10 days since Bob's post, you still cannot easily find information about the software engine or minimum crossgrade option. I wonder how many are "paying the bills" for Logos without knowing that a cheaper, or even free, option is going to be available to them at some indefinite time in the future. If Bob is sorry that Logos didn't make the software engine upgrade and minimum crossgrade options clear from the start - why not do so now to everyone who visits the upgrade page? Still not there....
Bob expressed the hope I wouldn't be offended, and I wanted to express that his hope was not fulfilled in my case.
Whether you agree with Mr, Stitt's position or not, he does have a point. I have spent a lot of time in the forums in order to find updates about the crossgrade. The only place it has been posted is the forums and not always on the same forum. I haven't found anything on Logos' website about the coming of the crossgrade. Even though communication was identified as a major issue with this release, it has not been rectified. Up until now, I haven't had an issue with the way Logos conducts business. I just hope this isn't the start of a change in the way Logos does business.
I'm sorry about that. It's been a bit chaotic, and especially for me. I was out of town almost constantly since that post, and have been offline more than I like. (I'm writing this from Milwaukee, where the Evangelical Theological Society is meeting; tomorrow it's off to Chicago for the Society of Biblical Literature.)
Last week i was told we'd put a summary of the same things that were in my forum post on the web site, but our team has been busy with lots of things that got in the way. I know excuses don't help -- and now it doesn't matter, since the minimal crossgrades are online -- but I can say that we've been putting out fires, fixing web-related bugs, and thinking for several days that the crossgrade would be going alive "tomorrow!" We still make bad predictions. In the meantime, our team started using this thread as the official post, and referred inquiries here. (Hence the huge view count.)
We have learned a lot from this launch. I'm sorry that we appear to have made some people angry enough that they've quit us, and I regret that, but I hope everyone will find the present options acceptable, and Logos 5 useful, and that this two-week launch chaos will, in time, seem like a minor episode in a product release three years in the making.