Help with morphological searching for a phrase

I cannot find any specifics for a morphological search for a specific phrase. Such as "specific verb" followed by any noun, followed by any preposition? Another example might be, a specific adjective, followed by any relative pronoun followed by any noun.

When I say, "specific" I mean any form of a specific word case/tense don't matter. When I say any preposition, I mean any word that is a preposition, the word itself is not important.

If you have any suggestions, please help!

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Comments

JT (alabama24)

Welcome to the forums Robert!

I don't have much experience with morphological searches, and am on vacation without my computer to experiment. Hopefully someone will pop in here sooner or later to help you. I did want to let you know that the L5 engine is free and you are encouraged to update to the latest version. L4 is no longer in development, although there will be an occasional service release. Updating to the free L5 engine is really no different than getting a software update to L4. As long as your computer specs are appropriate, there isn't really a reason not to update. Additionally, you will find help more readily available in the L5 forum, as the L4 forums are largely a ghost town.

Graham Criddle

Hi Robert - and welcome to the forums

Are you looking for something like what is shown below?

See http://wiki.logos.com/Morphological_Search for information and http://wiki.logos.com/Detailed_Search_Help#Proximity_Operatorson the use of "proximity operators"

And I would echo Alabama's comments about upgrading to L5 if your system specs support it

Graham

Robert Marcello

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501070#Comment_501070

Graham,

Yes, that search is similar to what I am trying to accomplish. I didn't know about L5. I will update.

However, now I am coming up with a new issue. The search I am conducting is only producing results in the SBLGNT. That is great, but I wanted to search Perseus, and was wondering why it wasn't searching the entire library when I have "All resources" marked? Any ideas?

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501072#Comment_501072

Hi Robert

for this type of search to work the resources need to be morphologically tagged which the Perseus resources aren't

Graham

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501072#Comment_501072

And http://www.logos.com/installation has details of how to get the free L5 upgrade

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501075#Comment_501075

for this type of search to work the resources need to be morphologically tagged which the Perseus resources aren't

They are morphologically tagged, so this will work in Perseus. If Robert didn't get any results from them, It's likely he was in a Bible search rather than a morph search.

Robert Marcello

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501078#Comment_501078

@Mark,

That is what I thought. However, I am in a morph search, so I am not sure why it isn't working.

@Graham, Thanks, I am downloading it now!

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501079#Comment_501079

That is what I thought. However, I am in a morph search, so I am not sure why it isn't working.

Could you upload a screenshot?

Robert Marcello

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501082#Comment_501082

Here you go

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501078#Comment_501078

Hi Mark

for this type of search to work the resources need to be morphologically tagged which the Perseus resources aren't

They are morphologically tagged, so this will work in Perseus. If Robert didn't get any results from them, It's likely he was in a Bible search rather than a morph search.

thanks for correcting my mistake. Appreciated, Graham

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501078#Comment_501078

Hi Mark

for this type of search to work the resources need to be morphologically tagged which the Perseus resources aren't

They are morphologically tagged, so this will work in Perseus. If Robert didn't get any results from them, It's likely he was in a Bible search rather than a morph search.

thanks for correcting my mistake. Appreciated, Graham

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501084#Comment_501084

Here you go

I think the issue is that this search string doesn't find any matches in the Perseus resources.

If you constrain the search to "lemma:πᾶς BEFORE @n" you should get some hits against Perseus resources.

Robert Marcello

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501091#Comment_501091

Graham,

That seems very unlikely considering how large Perseus is. If 8 verses in the NT have that result, I can't imagine not finding any occurrence in almost all of Greek literature. I can't even get it to populate searches with the relative pronoun command included. All before a noun before a relative pronoun is pretty broad. In fact, there are 78 verses in the NT that have that, but none in extra-biblical Greek Literature? That seems highly unlikely.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501094#Comment_501094

That seems very unlikely considering how large Perseus is. If 8 verses in the NT have that result, I can't imagine not finding any occurrence in almost all of Greek literature. I can't even get it to populate searches with the relative pronoun command included. All before a noun before a relative pronoun is pretty broad. In fact, there are 78 verses in the NT that have that, but none in extra-biblical Greek Literature? That seems highly unlikely.

The problem is that there are no relative pronouns tagged in Perseus. Because Perseus is so big, and it was free, then it was tagged automatically by software, rather than manually. And automatically, there's no way of knowing whether a pronoun is a relative pronoun or not, so a search for relative pronouns in Perseus will always return no results.

That means you search will have to be lemma:πᾶς BEFORE @n BEFORE @r BEFORE (lemma:ἄν, lemma:ἐάν)

You might want to limit your BEFOREs to something like BEFORE 5 WORDS. The search is taking a very long time without that limit. Note I've also added parentheses for clarity.

Robert Marcello

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501099#Comment_501099

Ok, I am working on that, but I see it is taking a long time. In fact Logos just crashed on me because of it.

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501120#Comment_501120

Logos 5.1 RC 3 on OS X 10.8.4 took a bit over 3 minutes to search:

lemma:πᾶς BEFORE 7 WORDS @N BEFORE 7 WORDS @R BEFORE 7 WORDS (lemma:ἄν, lemma:ἐάν)

Personally wish for long resource titles in search results instead of abbreviations, especially when two resources have the same AG abbreviation.

Keep Smiling [:)]

Keep Smiling 4 Jesus :)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/501467#Comment_501467

Personally wish for long resource titles in search results instead of abbreviations, especially when two resources have the same AG abbreviation.

Logos 5.1 RC 3 on Windows 7 shows long resource titles in search results:

Keep Smiling [:)]