Logos Is Too Expensive

JRS said:

Good grief.  How many times has this subject re: Logos Pricing come up and been answered?

I should think (and hope) until Logos finds a way for every average Christian in the world to use their software to thoroughly explore God's word. I would think that at a minimum that they could offer the core software (which I believe is already free) and include all of the Public Domain Bibles and literature to those who cannot afford to purchase it and are forced to go without.

Robert Turpin said:

I should think (and hope) until Logos finds a way for every average Christian in the world to use their software to thoroughly explore God's word. I would think that at a minimum that they could offer the core software (which I believe is already free) and include all of the Public Domain Bibles and literature to those who cannot afford to purchase it and are forced to go without.

I would like to point out it still costs Logos to produce public domain works. And providing perpetual support is even more costly. Logos is a business that must earn a profit to pay their employees. They do not solicit donations to keep the company afloat. Anyone can download the free engine and the free Bibles that are available. Logos is not standing in the way of people reading the Bible. There are also other companies that offer free Bible study software (Bible Explorer, eSword...) 

Super Tramp said:

I would like to point out it still costs Logos to produce public domain works.

I think not very much at all, in fact, I could find and create many public domain works in their usable form for them for free (sacrificing my time).

Super Tramp said:

And providing perpetual support is even more costly.

I already commented on this by saying that any and all support could be per need basis thereby lowering the cost for those who cannot afford it or simply do not need it, while still offering the exact same level of support (albeit perhaps through email within a day or two rather than an instant phone call) to those who can.

Super Tramp said:

Logos is a business that must earn a profit to pay their employees. They do not solicit donations to keep the company afloat.

Again, when you're leading people to Christ and teaching his word, then there is no room for greed. I will add to that by saying that I do realize that it does take some money to be able to offer it in the first place and for upgrades, however this in fact SHOULD be donated by those who are blessed by God to help those less fortunate. God's word tells us that we will ALWAYS have the poor among us, he does not say to profit from them...

I am simply trying to make some valid points from the less fortunate customer's perspective, not trying to stir things up or cause friction. I think that it's always healthy to discuss bettering humanity, and just like raising your own children - how many times must you tell them to "turn off the lights which they are not using"! As many times as it takes, but in love and with compassion.

Robert Turpin said:

Again, when you're leading people to Christ and teaching his word, then there is no room for greed.

Logos, the company, is not preaching the Word or leading people to Christ. They are not a mission but a for-profit business. And working for a profit in a capitalist economy is not greed, it's life blood. Would you ask a Christian car dealer to give away new cars to all  preachers?

Robert Turpin said:

I sent Logos an email simply asking for an explanation on how they determine their pricing structure, but I have not yet received a response even though it has been longer than the "normal" 24-48 hours? I think that any price over $1,000 is strictly geared toward professional clergy and churches rather than an average person.

So what if it's geared toward the professional clergy?  Is something wrong with that?  There are companies that produce vestments for the clergy; are you proposing that they shouldn't do that?  If there weren't options available, I would grant your argument, but there are plenty of ways that one can obtain not only bibles, but software and some study helps—free.  Would you say that your local car dealer should explain to you how they arrive at the prices they charge for cars?  They would tell you it's none of your business.  They have a product X that they will sell you for $ddddd.cc—end of the matter.  Do you want it or not?  I really tire of sanctimonious posters who desire to get something for little or nothing but who clothe their argument in terms that make them sound as though they are purely benevolent.  I call that greed.  It's also known as TURPITUDE. [:@]

I dispute the claim that Logos is selling Cadillacs, and that they don't make the best tools financially accessible to most people. The Logos Starter Package is US$294. On a 12 month payment plan, that's US$25 a month. Many people probably spend twice that on their hobbies, or at least that amount on some kind of entertainment subscription.

The Starter Package has all of the Logos Bible study tools which the most expensive packages have. There's no way to claim Logos isn't offering as many people as possible, affordable access to the Word of God and some of the best tools to study it with.

What differentiates packages is resources. Virtually all resources (with few exceptions), must be licensed from their publishers, and that costs money. But that aside, the vast majority of people do not need and cannot even use, the most expensive resources. I see no merit in criticizing Logos for not providing academic resources at affordable prices to everyone, when most people do not need them and cannot use them.

Many of the original language resources are useless to anyone who can't read the original languages. A significant number of the Logos resources are academic level commentaries which are not only far beyond what the average Bible reader needs, but which typically require knowledge of seminary level hermeneutics.

Leaving that aside, Logos has provided a broad range of completely free software resources, as well as many free books (including the massive Perseus collection). So I cannot agree that they are not doing their most to provide people with affordable access to the Word, and the best tools to study it with. No one is entitled to a free copy of the Anchor Yale Bible, or the Theological Journals Collection, and if they can't afford it that is not the fault of Logos.

Robert Turpin said:

You're comments make it sound as if you actually think that if a person can't afford to pay what you can afford then they don't deserve to enter the kingdom of God, and that is very dangerous ground indeed!

Robert, I'm not sure you're interpreting ST correctly.  Melodrama aside, I see no evidence that he's saying people who can't afford Bible study tools don't deserve to enter the Kingdom. And unless you have a different Bible to me, you will be aware that Bible study is not a requirement for entry.

That being the case not everyone needs Logos. Public domain works are available to all, very inexpensively; many libraries are carrying lots of theology texts; so by charging a premium for tagged, cross-referenced versions of these books Logos are preventing no-one from reading the actual works, and to take the analogy that's already been used, while they're offering cadillacs, they aren't stopping the rest of the world from having cars.

If anything, Logos are providing a service to evangelists, pastors and teachers, making the process of sermon and Bible study prep more efficient.  If laymen wish to take advantage of this service, so much the better.

But be honest, do you honestly think Logos users will get into the Kingdom ahead of everyone else?

[Re-post from some time back]
Question about the hard copies: Did the publisher expect to sell to you as the only user [and don’t let your friends use it] or to a library where 500 people would use the same book [one at a time]?

Traditional way Sell to library; publisher gets $1000 [incremental cost to publisher - printing and shipping]

OR Sell to each of the individual members of that library and yes, only get $50 per copy [price $100 –- half to publisher half to Logos] EACH for a total take of $25,000 [500 times 50] and advertise to each individual member as Only 10% of the list price for a 90% savings [incremental cost to publisher - nothing. Cost to Logos - cost of the servers / total number of books offered]

Gold mine for Logos and the publisher: sell to the user instead of the library!!!! $25,000 vs $1,000

Gold mine? How many of the Library members will buy a copy at 90%? 95% off? 97.5% off?

And each individual member said “WOW, I saved $900” [For a total savings of $40,500 over all 500 members] [And I no longer need to drive to the 500 Member Library and it is always available - no waiting] [What is the value of having it available NOW?]

Cheap or expensive? [Just keep your eyes open.] Are we looking at how much it is off of "LIST PRICE" or what it is worth to us?

Expensive? Yes, If I had known what my total cost would be I would not have bought Logos. BUT I am doing studies that I never would have done. 

David Ames said:

Traditional way Sell to library; publisher gets $1000 [incremental cost to publisher - printing and shipping]

Actually the traditional way is to sell to the library and to sell to individuals. Publishers still do this. In fact selling directly to individuals is how they make most of their money.

David Ames said:

Gold mine for Logos and the publisher: sell to the user instead of the library!!!! $25,000 vs $1,000

But publishers don't do this; they sell to the user and to the library.

Robert Turpin said:

I think not very much at all, in fact, I could find and create many public domain works in their usable form for them for free (sacrificing my time).

• research time to find a usable form takes some time.  While the actual text might be in the public domain, the various forms of the text tend to be copyrighted.  
• Most of the items are scanned, and that requires a person to read the entire work of art for scanning errors.
• It is my understanding that the tagging of the work of art is also done mostly by hand.
• Don't forget the various expenses that business have (cleaning, electric, water, insurance, etc...)

Robert Turpin said:

I could find and create many public domain works in their usable form for them for free (sacrificing my time).

Robert; I am not trying to give you a hard time but try one. Spec 500 pages with at least 2 footnotes per page. With out using a PDF to DOCX conversion program.  Just to see what is involved.   As reported else where I am up to 4500 minutes of editing one that size and I am only about 25% done.

Feel free to ignore me. Or dive in a give it a try and report back on your experience.  

George Somsel said:

My apologies—that should have been Inspector Morse.

Not to be a pedant, but it should actually have been Chief Inspector Morse. One of the PBS stations is showing reruns of the series at the moment which is really making me cast my mind back to a different time in my life.

Can't speak to your stunning experience, but Bob (the CEO) noted that the Logos office was what was left from the previous owner.  I, myself, envied Bob's CEO office.  But apparently the prior real estate company had the missing cost conscious executive.  Bob and employees just lucked out.

Thanks for your explanation. That's is good to know. After watching the videos I was beginning to think that Logos was trying to become a Google or Apple-like work environment on our dime. From what I have read they have put a stunning amount of work into 6.0. I am just not yet convinced that the benefits would justify the cost, for me. I would have liked the option of test driving an upgrade of just the core program before deciding if I wanted to go all in. A silver to Silver upgrade without any new books would have made me happy.