Reading on Android where I left off on L5

I must be missing something here with regard to synchronization.

I use the Android app on my phone primarily as a ebook reader. If I have been reading a book on my phone then open it in L5 on my desktop, it opens right to the place I left off on my phone. That is the expected behavior.

If I then read for a while on the desktop, when I switch back to Android some time later, it usually opens again at the place I was last reading on Android, not the latest place from L5. Sometimes, if I use several other books in between or force a close via the task manager, it will open it in sync the desktop, but not always.

Is there anyway to force synchronization before I open the app or book? The utility of the Android app and the synchronization feature becomes limited if I can't remember which page I was on or if I have to write it down somewhere else.

Thanks

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Graham Criddle

Hi Sean

I must be missing something here with regard to synchronization.

Maybe - but not much[:)]

Sometimes, if I use several other books in between or force a close via the task manager, it will open it in sync the desktop, but not always.

This is the key point.

The way sync works on the mobile apps depends on whether the book you are reading on your desktop is also "open" on your mobile device.

If it is open on your mobile device then its position will not change as you read on the desktop and won't be updated via sync
if it is closed on your mobile device then its position will track where you get to on the desktop via the sync mechanism

(With no way to actually close a book on mobile devices, the way in which status is changed from "open" to "closed" is by opening new resources on the mobile device - so this is consistent with what you are seeing).

This has been discussed in various threads and there are different views as to whether this is the right behaviour or not but this is how the software works at the moment.

You can't force sync in a way which would change this behaviour but what you could do is to highlight where you are on the desktop when you finish reading. This highlight would by synced and then you can move forward in the resource on your mobile device until you reach the highlight (which you can then delete)

Hope this helps

Graham

Sean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/514900#Comment_514900

You can't force sync in a way which would change this behaviour but what you could do is to highlight where you are on the desktop when you finish reading. This highlight would by synced and then you can move forward in the resource on your mobile device until you reach the highlight (which you can then delete)

Hope this helps

Graham

Thanks for your help, Graham. The highlight idea is a good stopgap worth trying.

It may not be the Android ethos, but I do think it would best for many reasons if books, as well as the entire app, could be closed at the user's discretion.

JT (alabama24)

I am not an Android user, so you will have to take my reply with an iOS grain of salt. [:P]

I believe the issue about syncing resource location is due to Logos definition of "layout," and how "layouts" should function. Bear with me for a moment...

Logos currently uses "saved layouts" to act like a "snapshot in time." Their use of "layout" doesn't really have anything to do with how resources are "laid out," EXCEPT in that how resources were laid out in a specific point in time. Logos use of the term "layout" in this specialized meaning (I detest their nomenclature) explicitly excludes any chance of "picking back up in a resource where you left off on mobile" when you open a layout. By definition, their use of "layout" excludes this possibility. [After all, what does it matter what you read on mobile, and where you left off. A snapshot is a snapshot, is a snapshot.]

Your description:

it usually opens again at the place I was last reading on Android, not the latest place from L5

tells me that you are opening these resources within L5 from the library, rather than having left them open in a layout. I would guess that most users don't do it this way… which I why I often have to explain what I just did for you. In your case, the problem is going the other way… from desktop to mobile. I assume (being a non-android user) that the problem is identical, but in reverse. At least, that is the way it works in the iOS apps. You are likely leaving the resource open on mobile, which Logos considers a simple layout. [I have never heard Logos use the term "layout" for mobile, but the behavior is identical to how saved layouts/snapshots work in L4/L5.]. My guess is that if you make sure to open up some other resource (i.e. your bible), you will find that the book will open to the right (synced) place when you open it next.

Here is the complicated workflow… I'll use "The Peacemaker" as my sample resource.

Purchase The Peacemaker from Logos.
Open The Peacemaker from your L5 library and read to page 10.
Close The Peacemaker tab.
Allow L5 to sync with the servers.
Open The Peacemaker on your Android device. It should open to page 10.
Read The Peacemaker on your Android device and read to page 20.
Close The Peacemaker on your Android device by opening the ESV Bible in its place.
Allow the Android app to sync with the servers.
Open The Peacemaker from your L5 library. It should open to page 20.

I bet that you will find this behavior to be the case for you… At least, I assume the Android app is similar to the iOS app in this regard. I personally believe the use of the term "layout" to be very misleading, and not very helpful. I would much rather have Logos use the term "project," and allow users to select a "project" on mobile. In my mind, this would mean that locations would ALWAYS sync between "projects" on all installations.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516021#Comment_516021

Thus the need for a Sync to Furthest Page Read button like Kindle app and most every other cloud based app out there.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516022#Comment_516022

Thus the need for a Sync to Furthest Page Read button like Kindle app and most every other cloud based app out there.

I don't think it is so simple as that. Let's say "Pastor Smith" uses the ESV as his Bible. He may be using that resource concurrently in a number of ways:

Personal Devotions
Sunday Morning Sermon
Next Sunday Morning Sermon
Sunday Night Sermon
Next Sunday Night Sermon
Wednesday Night Sermon
Next Wednesday Night Sermon
Wedding #1
Wedding #2
Jones Funeral
Small Group
Leadership Meeting

This scenario isn't implausible. (Boy, do I feel sorry for Pastor Smith!) Pastor Smith clicks "Sync to furthest read page"... and what? Where does it go? Furthermore, whenever I have used the Kindle "sync to furthest" feature, it truly means, sync to the FURTHEST known location. Is that what is always desirable? Only in a book read from cover to cover, and not for any sort of research. Like a novel. How many novels are read in Logos? Some books, which I might read in their entirety, I skip around from chapter to chapter.

I don't think "sync to furthest known location" is really a good solution at all. The solution should be "projects." In its simplest form (the person who doesn't ever want to think about it):

A Default project is created automatically.
Any resource that is opened is opened within the "Default" project unless another project is created and saved.
The mobile app defaults to using the "default" project.
Resource locations are ALWAYS synced. Forwards, backwards, furthest, nearest... it doesn't matter. Wherever you leave off, is where it picks up. This is true on ALL devices ALL the time.
If you turn to page 20 on your mobile device, your desktop turns to page 20.
It doesn't matter if you have both apps open at the same time... the location will sync.
If you leave your desktop app OPEN, turn to page 50 on your mobile, when you return to your desktop app, it will be on page 50.

Remember: Sync locations are tied to the PROJECT. The mobile app would need to have the ability to switch to various projects. Some people might choose to have a special "Vyrso App" project, and a "Faithlife App" project, etc. This would be a user designed preference.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516077#Comment_516077

I don't think "sync to furthest known location" is really a good solution at all. The solution should be "projects."

I like the idea of Projects. It's what I would call desktops or workspaces (like switching between Android or iOS desktops, different workspaces for different projects or settings). There is a huge vote on UserVoice for tabs (which I don't like because it's cluttered, and carries the implication of a multitude of resources open at once... unless they are virtual tabs). They are all basically the same idea expressed differently, and an extremely desirable feature. I don't disagree with that general concept at all. There is a big need for something like that.

The syncing issue is more complicated. I'll admit that my view of it doesn't cover your use case very well. My use of the apps is on a 7" tablet which is more useful for reading, so that's most of what I do. For example, I'm current reading a number of OT & NT surveys and surveys of Church History, trying to get a lot of the big picture stuff in my head.

On a bigger tablet such as the iPad, which is a good bit bigger and has a more mature bible app on it, I can see where it might be used more, or as much, for research as for general reading. Flipping back and forth in resources does present a very different use case, but one that might still be compatible with what I suggest. Maybe.

Syncing is very complicated. It makes my head hurt. Consider, for example:

1. You have your desktop app open to resource X. You have your iPad open to resource X. They are at the same spot initially. You're actively using the iPad, advancing pages. Both apps, desktop and iPad, are actively syncing every n secs/mins. At any moment in time, what is the current synced location in the cloud? The place where you left off in the desktop or the place where you've advanced to in the iPad? What if you add a phone to the mix? You could track activity in each of the apps to see which is used most recently but that isn't always so straightforward either.

2. If you do as you suggest, which seems to be what I might call live-sync, It mean that you can't have a resource open to more than one location which is sometimes useful. It also breaks expectations in the case where you leave off at a location on your iPad, but don't close the app or the resource. You then open it in the desktop app, go back to a previous section you read to make more detailed notes. Finish there and pick up your iPad to continue reading where you left off.... And find it has synced to where you left off in the desktop. Now you have to find your way back.

3. As you noted, If you finish a book or skip to an appendix on one device and then open it on another device, does Sync to Furthest Read move to the end or the appendix instead of the last place in the resource I was actually reading?

4. Sync to Most Recently Read might be another alternative but runs into similar problems as (3) and gets all mixed up in (1).

I think in any case I would always want every device to open up exactly as I left off. Don't sync unless I ask. I think that's the most useful and the least surprising behavior. But the syncing part.... I don't know. Like I said, it really hurts trying to wrap my head around it. Some kind of syncing is needed. Some kind of compromise will be involved. I don't know what the best option is. Maybe I'm making it more complicated than it is?

[EDIT: I suppose (1) can be solved by storing enough info in the cloud. Date & Time stamp of last sync and the current Location for each device, for each resource that you've opened on that device. Each time a device syncs it looks at the location recorded at the last sync and only updates DT & Location if the Location on that device has changed. Then you just have to decide if you want the most recently recorded location or the furthest location recorded amongst all devices. Syncing to... only has to be resolved when requested. That requires more stored data than I was initially thinking when I posted above and still may miss some odd cases. I'm not smart enough for this stuff anymore.]

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516155#Comment_516155

2. If you do as you suggest, which seems to be what I might call live-sync, It mean that you can't have a resource open to more than one location

You have seemingly misunderstood the heart of my post. Ugh. We'll call it my fault and I'll try again. [:)]

With my proposal, You CAN have a resource open to more than one location... That is the whole point of the "projects." If you are using a bible dictionary for five different projects, you would need it to "stay put" In each of those projects... And so it would. My proposal for mobile involves no changes at all in the look and feel of the mobile app... No need for "layouts" or "tabs" or anything of the sort. You just need a way for the app to know, "when I open AYBD right now, I want it to open to the location in my 'Sunday Sermon' project." Some people might utilize projects like crazy on mobile, constantly switching which project profile theyre currently working with. Others might only use one. Yet others might choose to have a special project profile designated for each mobile app. The user would be in control of what worked best for them.

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516212#Comment_516212

I believe I am following. Within each project you can have a book opened to a different location. As a simple case, let's say there are two projects. 1) "Sunday School" which has a bible open to Gen 7; and 2) "Armchair" which is open to Heb 12. If I open up "Armchair" and read to James 1 it only changes my location in the "Armchair" project. The "Sunday School" project is still sitting at Gen 7.

What I was trying to get at is that within a single individual project you still have a syncing issue. You still have to decide what happens when multiple devices are open to that resource and one of them changes the location within that resource. That's where I was going with points 2, 3, and 4, above in my previous post. I believe those points still apply.

If I'm following, your point (4) above, "Resource locations are ALWAYS synced", is that within a project if a resource has its location changed on one device it is immediately updated on all devices. That is a valid solution. It would work and solve the problem from your expectations. But my point is that I believe for most users it would break expectation, it would break the Principle of Least Surprise. If I get up from my armchair and lay my book down open to page 179, go get some coffee and come back and start reading, figuring out 2 pages later that I'm not just experiencing deja vu and I am reading the same pages again because the page changed to 167 then I'm going to throw that book at someone. Well, maybe not, but I'd be irritated. Ditto with tablets. And ditto if I'm the bonehead that changed it by opening up on my desktop to the same project so it'd open to where I was reading and then clicking a reference to another section in the book to explore a topic further. (IIUC, I could do that in a different project but that is awkward too; How do I do that? I want to easily get to the location I was at in the original project, with the same references.) Going back to my armchair, I would still expect it to be at the location where I left it. Regardless of what I've done on another device. Unless I specifically ask it to sync with another device.

Am I following correctly? I think we're saying the same thing, just making different choices.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516329#Comment_516329

Mmmm. Complicated.

I agree with Randy. Copy the other cloud-based approaches. User control of sync'ing. I don't want my Logos5 to jump to my non-Logos5 resource location especially on commentaries.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516329#Comment_516329

What I was trying to get at is that within a single individual project you still have a syncing issue. You still have to decide what happens when multiple devices are open to that resource and one of them changes the location within that resource.

Yes, but... that is no different than the status quo. My gut check answer: the mobile app would open the resource to the last opened or activated location in the project.

If I get up from my armchair and lay my book down open to page 179, go get some coffee and come back and start reading, figuring out 2 pages later that I'm not just experiencing deja vu and I am reading the same pages again because the page changed to 167 then I'm going to throw that book at someone.

Why would it go back to 167? It shouldn't. It ALWAYS syncs. When the app opens, it will look for the location data.

And ditto if I'm the bonehead that changed it by opening up on my desktop to the same project so it'd open to where I was reading and then clicking a reference to another section in the book to explore a topic further.

If YOU changed it, YOU changed it... and yes, you would be a bonehead. My solution provides many different options. If someone doesn't like this behavior: simple! Create a mobile project profile AND DONT USE IT ON THE DESKTOP. Simple. Someone cant have it both ways. Either they want it to sync or they don't.

I could do that in a different project but that is awkward too; How do I do that? I want to easily get to the location I was at in the original project, with the same references

There are people who would not want the mobile to follow the desktop. The answer is don't use the same project.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/516330#Comment_516330

Mmmm. Complicated.

Complicated? No. The status quo is complicated. I regularly assist users who don't understand the current sync. Logos itself cant explain what "layouts" and "active layouts" mean.

I don't want my Logos5 to jump to my non-Logos5 resource location especially on commentaries.

Are you talking about L3 syncing location with L5? Does that happen now?

Copy the other cloud-based approaches.

Can you explain how that would work? THAT would be complicated.

User control of sync'ing.

"Other Cloud based approaches" (I assume you mean kindle) would NOT provide "user control" of syncing.