Logos vs. OliveTree Bible Reader
I recently switched from OliveTree to Logos after many happy years using the OliveTree product on various devices. I had built up quite a collection of over $400 of resources. My main driver for change was the huge number of resources from Logos. OliveTree pales in comparison.
But I had reason to load up on my iPad Mini the latest version of OliveTree. I have to say that the app itself in my opinion is so much more user friendly than the iOS version. Does anyone else find that? For example, it can all be used offline. Also, you can split the screen in OliveTree with the right hand pane being all of your linked commentaries, bible references, maps etc, all linked to the passage on the left that you are reading currently. When you open a reference on the right hand side, it stays in the right hand pane. In Logos you have something similar through the Passage Guide, but when you open the cross reference, it places it on the left hand pane overwriting the bible verses that you are reading. It does not even sync the bible verses with the passage guide cross links.
Am I missing anything or is this the way it works? Does the Android version do it better? Or do we need to stay with the Windows or MAC versions to get them?
Many thanks,
Richard.
Comments
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I am a long time BibleReader user since 2003 and Logos since 2006, I much prefer OT for the iPhone/iPad. Logos mobile is a fine reader but perhaps being such a long time user of BR I am far too use to it to ever be as comfortable in Logos mobile. I thing I hate most about logos is the need to be online ally he time to do anything much more than basic functions.And of course OT has a few resources you can't get in Logos. The android version is less robust than the iOS version as I understand it.
-Dan
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Thanks Dan. I am hoping that the Logos Developers have a copy of Olivetree to gain some inspiration. Logos on iOS is not bad, but certainly has a long way to go.
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Like you, I had about $400 worth of Bible Reader resources. I used to use BibleReader as my primary app up until about 9 months ago, when I made the switch to the Logos app. I agree that generally, Bible Reader is a great app, but Logos has made significant improvements since it's release in 2009, and I believe that overall it just about edges BibleReader. That said, for studying rather than just reading the various texts, BibleReader still edges Logos, mostly for the reasons you mention.
Richard Kingston said:For example, it can all be used offline.
Whilst not everything in Logos can be used offline, almost all of it can. The main exceptions are the Guides and reverse-interlinear lookup. But BibleReader can't really do this anyway, even online. I presume you know you can download individual books using Logos and have them available offline?
Richard Kingston said:Also, you can split the screen in OliveTree with the right hand pane being all of your linked commentaries, bible references, maps etc, all linked to the passage on the left that you are reading currently. It does not even sync the bible verses with the passage guide cross links.
Logos can split the screen, and maintain the links as your scroll through your Bible/commentary. It doesn't have the Resource Guide of BibleReader, though. And you're right that having the PG open in the primary window is annoying. But you can link the two panes together, by pressing and holding on the separator bar and selecting 'link panels'.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
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Mark Barnes said:
The main exceptions are the Guides and reverse-interlinear lookup. But BibleReader can't really do this anyway, even online.
Original language resources built in, BR has interlinear support (I have two versions of the KJV as well as ESV and NASB, and I know there are a few other versions) and the resource guide in Olive tree populates far quicker than Logos Passage guide. I have no doubt that Resource guide was inspired by Logos passage guide (after seeing how well it was done with Bible reader I no longer believe Logos statement that passage guide on phone/tablet is not practical).
-Dan
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BTW for any new user at the moment (or if you are a Logos user who does not already own it) you can't buy Theological Word book of the Old Testament, eliminating one of the most helpful basic Hebrew reference works.
-Dan
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I am deeply appreciative of all the things that the Logos Bible! app can do, particularly for giving me a mobile version of my books so that I can read on the road or other 'on the move' situations. Notes are great and I am so looking forward to other features like clippings and prayer lists coming to the app.
However, when it comes to quickly getting at the text and original languages, I tend use the Accordance iOS app. It's much faster, easier and more intuitive. I can do it on Logos, but it is slower and not as efficient.
This is of course very subjective, but I mention this by way of constructive feedback that a core activity of a Bible iOS app is getting to the text and accessing it. If it is not efficient or you have to be connected to the internet, this hamstrings part of the reason for portability.
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Donovan R. Palmer said:
the text and original languages, I tend use the Accordance iOS app. It's much faster, easier and more intuitive.
I would agree with you there… a big part of it for me too is most of my Hebrew greek dictionaries are in accordance I just wish accordance would have the feature that you find on Olivetree allowing you to open which ever lexical resource you want to the proper word.
-Dan
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I expect I'm behind the times posting to this thread (I don't read the forums very often), and I may not be as expert a user as others, but here are two comments for what they are worth:
I'm a long term Logos user so most (if not all) of my resources are in Logos. I use an iPad for preaching and conducting group Bible studies. I can customize the OT app to work is ways which fit my use eg scrolling the text up and down instead of turning pages. I don't understand why Logos cannot offer the same customization features but they don't.
My second comment has to do with the interface between Logos and iTunes. Logos does not backup any of the books I have downloaded when I sync with iTunes so I can have a local backup of my downloaded resources (it use to do this but it was removed several updates ago - apparently Logos are concerned about possible conflicts between older resources that have been stored in a local backup and updated resources on their servers). This has caused me problems only once (the detail is not important) but having to download again a group of useful resources after a fresh install is not a helpful experience. (I know also that OT doesn't do this but at least I can backup the OT folders manually.)
Because of these two issues I regard the Logos app as a reader only, use the desktop version of Logos for anything serious and go into the pulpit with OliveTree.
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AndrewG said:
scrolling the text up and down instead of turning pages
FYI — The Logos mobile apps do now have scrolling, which is preformed with a two finger swipe.
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One other thing that i should say Verbum iOS (technically Logos Catholic version software) is nicer than Logos iOS, I had initially avoided exploring it since it required redownloading all my resources, but i find it a little more user friendly once you learn how to use it (I didn't realize passage guide was accessed via swipe up). I still prefer over all Olivetree but Logos is not the worst software out there.
-Dan
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Mark Barnes said:Richard Kingston said:
For example, it can all be used offline.
Whilst not everything in Logos can be used offline, almost all of it can. The main exceptions are the Guides and reverse-interlinear lookup. But BibleReader can't really do this anyway, even online. I presume you know you can download individual books using Logos and have them available offline?
For me the main exceptions are:
1. non-Biblical links (which are unavailable, even if you have the linked resource available offline
2. the popup "Info" window for Greek / Hebrew Bibles, which should ideally populate offline with the basic parsing / definition information (as it does online) even if the Bible Word Study doesn't work.
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Some great thoughts here. Don't get me wrong, Logos / Verbum are great products and I am so grateful that some very clever people have made them available. The resources available just cannot be found in any of the other products. But the offline use of passage guide, comparison and citations is a really big omission. Olivetree has a resource guide implemented that works offline using a downloaded database. OT must create the cross references for the resources they have, put it into a database and then update it periodically. Of course that would be a massive database if Logos were to make it downloadable.
But I think the biggest improvement would be the layout. OT enables a split screen where the Bible text is on the left (for e.g.) and the resource guide is on the right of the screen. You can scroll through the resources identified, open them up, read, while keeping the bible text on the left. Nicely implemented. Logos is somewhat more cumbersome.
Anyway, not complaining, just comparing.
Richard.
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Richard Kingston said:
Anyway, not complaining, just comparing.
Welcome to the forums. Great first post.
From my brief experience with Olive Tree I can say I like the look and think the Resource Guide is pretty responsive. I find navigation between opened resources a bit easier in Logos. Olive Tree's greater options on a tap and hold on a word and how they are implemented (as in Lookup) are a better design IMO. I don't have purchased resources in OT so can't comment on how working with original languages compare.
Pastor, North Park Baptist Church
Bridgeport, CT USA
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I also switched from OT to Logos (a few years ago) and had some invested into the app. What made me switch was also the number of resources on logos that I could not get on OT. That being said, I do like the guides on the OT app much better! Also, the ability to scroll instead of page turn is awesome! Overall I'm very happy with the logos app, but there are definitely a few things that logos can improve on when compared to Olive Tree.
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Liam Walsh said:
the ability to scroll instead of page turn is awesome!
Again, the Logos mobile apps DO have the ability to scroll. Simply use two fingers up or down.
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alabama24 said:
the Logos mobile apps DO have the ability to scroll. Simply use two fingers up or down.
only on iOS... [:(]
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so it is... I was just reading the Logos vs. OT discussion, not realizing it was in the iOS forum [:)] still waiting for the two-finger scrolling on Android though
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From my understanding there are several features in iOS that have yet to make it android… I really wish Logos would ad a simplified offline passage guide similar to one in Olivetree… I am often out of cell service and no wifi near so Logos becomes very basic fast at that point...
-dan
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Thanks for that alabama24: I knew I could scroll using two fingers but in comparison to the OT app it is clumsy. My ideal would be the OT app with the Logos library - but that would be dream the impossible dream . . . . Failing that I'd like to be able to customize the Logos app to the same degree as I can within OliveTree.alabama24 said:AndrewG said:scrolling the text up and down instead of turning pages
FYI — The Logos mobile apps do now have scrolling, which is preformed with a two finger swipe.
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I just dont get it, why some people prefer scrolling over turning pages. For me scrolling is useless because my eyes get tired seeing moving letters of the text. I LOVE TURNING PAGES feature and this is one of the reasons why I use Logos App.
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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Wild Eagle said:
I just dont get it, why some people prefer scrolling over turning pages. For me scrolling is useless because my eyes get tired seeing moving letters of the text. I LOVE TURNING PAGES feature and this is one of the reasons why I use Logos App.
I am very pleased for you!! In certain situations I do as well - except when I am preaching!
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The primary use case for scrolling (as opposed to page turning) is being able to highlight text that spans two "pages".
Peter
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I have used Logos since the 90's, and BR for just a few years.
The main reason I use BR is the fact I can put my sermon into the notes of BR, and preach from it, with the verses popping up when I tap on them. Nothing like it in Logos. Hope developers at Logos check out this thread!
Also, the option to set scrolling in BR's settings instead of page turning is a desire I have for Logos. If it was a setting instead of a two finger swipe, it would be more useful. I like the scrolling so that verses I am studying are not broken onto two pages as I study through a passage.
The ability to study original languages is better in Logos... Just wish it was available offline... Same with Passage Guide and Word Study tools. Great when you have a connection... not so great when you do not.
Windows 7, Nexus 7
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PL said:
The primary use case for scrolling (as opposed to page turning) is being able to highlight text that spans two "pages".
Peter
two finger scroll helps me to highlight the text that spans two pages. In the same way for preaching. Two finger scroll does not bother me since I am doing more reading and turning pages is very useful
"No man is greater than his prayer life. The pastor who is not praying is playing; the people who are not praying are straying." Leonard Ravenhill
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Let me hypothesize why you won't see much customization for gestures... The app has too many features to allow you to do so. A swipe up brings up a contextual menu, so one finger scrolling is ruled out.
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I suspect the could swap the actions of single swipe up/down with two-finger swipe up/down, and then make an option switch in settings for which you would prefer. One finger swipe up/down is much more natural, would match what other applications do, and would be more in line even with Logos' 1 finger swipe left/right to page turn (both actions moving the text).
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Mike Measley said:
I have used Logos since the 90's, and BR for just a few years.
The main reason I use BR is the fact I can put my sermon into the notes of BR, and preach from it, with the verses popping up when I tap on them. Nothing like it in Logos. Hope developers at Logos check out this thread!
Also, the option to set scrolling in BR's settings instead of page turning is a desire I have for Logos. If it was a setting instead of a two finger swipe, it would be more useful. I like the scrolling so that verses I am studying are not broken onto two pages as I study through a passage.
The ability to study original languages is better in Logos... Just wish it was available offline... Same with Passage Guide and Word Study tools. Great when you have a connection... not so great when you do not.
I agree! I agree! I agree! It's good to find someone else of like mind.
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Logos could and should do a major upgrade of its iOS app to improve the experience. Logos should have the best designed Bible app available. "Heavy lifting" study is not something that you can do much of with the horse power of an iPad anyway.
As is, the free app is not going to attract very many new people to buy Logos products.
"In all cases, the Church is to be judged by the Scripture, not the Scripture by the Church," John Wesley0 -
This thread centers on tablets, but I just finished loading my new iPod, which is effectively an earlier iPhone gen without the phone.
Anyway, I loaded the Logos, Olivetree, and Laridian apps, for which I have decent size libraries in each.
Laridian is by far the best programmed. Olivetree's trying to sell more stuff. And Logos is the usual slow, but ponderously powerful.
For quick easy access to Bible study and font readability, 'Laridian'. Heavy lifting: 'Logos'
Accordian's (rhymes with Logosian) Windows rollout will intro a fourth dimension for us MS-ers.
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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I know nothing of Laridian. But I use Olive Tree on my phone when I need to look up passages in the Bible. I find it quicker and easier than the Logos App.
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I have Logos and Olive Tree installed on both my iPad and computer. I find that I use the Olive Tree Bible Study App more due to these reasons.
1) the logos app won't swipe up and down. Which I prefer. It forces you to turn pages.
2) the logos app is so reliant on an internet connection. my iPad is wifi only. I have to put my phone into hotspot mode to get full function on my iPad.
3) the Olive Tree Bible study app is faster
4)the Olive Tree Bible study app with the resource guide installed functions easier than the logos app.
4)Olive Tree offers better prices on their resources compared to logos.
i find that I only use the logo app or software on my computer when I can't do something with OT Bible Study app. Logos is far more powerful on the computer but way slow
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Edwin Combs said:
1) the logos app won't swipe up and down. Which I prefer. It forces you to turn pages.
If you had read the thread more carefully, you would know this isn't true. [;)]
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I did not know that! That is very helpful for highlighting. Is that a new feature, or have I just missed it all this time?alabama24 said:If you had read the thread more carefully, you would know this isn't true.
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Edwin Combs said:
2) the logos app is so reliant on an internet connection. my iPad is wifi only.
It is possible to "Download all" of your mobile enabled resources to your iPad for reading without WiFi.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
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Super Tramp, unfortunately that doesn't help with everything, such as running any kind of guide (passage, bws, etc.)
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You can download them, but functions like word studies don't work.
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How do you turn on this function? Because every time I'm used the logos app it only swipes pages.
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Edwin Combs said:
How do you turn on this function? Because every time I'm used the logos app it only swipes pages.
You need to use a two-finger swipe to scroll
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Kevin Maples said:
I did not know that! That is very helpful for highlighting. Is that a new feature, or have I just missed it all this time?alabama24 said:If you had read the thread more carefully, you would know this isn't true.
More than a year.
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Graham Criddle said:Edwin Combs said:
How do you turn on this function? Because every time I'm used the logos app it only swipes pages.
You need to use a two-finger swipe to scroll
that's a weird way to implement scrolling. can you make it single column? the two column scrolling just seems odd.
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Graham Criddle said:Edwin Combs said:
How do you turn on this function? Because every time I'm used the logos app it only swipes pages.
You need to use a two-finger swipe to scroll
Not really "scrolling" but "jumping", a line at a time.
Not very conducive to reading...
"As any translator will attest, a literal translation is no translation at all."
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It doesn't seem very smooth and with two columns, it could have been done in a much better way.Paul Golder said:Graham Criddle said:Edwin Combs said:How do you turn on this function? Because every time I'm used the logos app it only swipes pages.
You need to use a two-finger swipe to scroll
Not really "scrolling" but "jumping", a line at a time.
Not very conducive to reading...
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Well, after all these years of getting whacked by Logos4/5 fanboys, I'll admit I'm a Logos-iOS fangirl.
One reason: the highlighting (and resources, etc too but fangirls need to concentrate their 'fanning').
I can not believe the highlighting on Kindle, Laridian, Accordance, and Olivetree. Goodness gracious, have they EVER used Logos? It IS possible to do it right.
(Or I don't get their method, which is entirely possible).
The ones that want you to 'stretch' your highlight appropriately. Or the ones that want to highlight a word, sentence, paragraph or the whole resource.
(OK, I agree the UI on OT is good but let's not get carried away. And the imaging in Accordance is the absolute best too.)
"If myth is ideology in narrative form, then scholarship is myth with footnotes." B. Lincolm 1999.
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Edwin Combs said:
that's a weird way to implement scrolling. can you make it single column? the two column scrolling just seems odd.
What in the world are you talking about? Scrolling has nothing to do with columns. What are your view settings?
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Paul Golder said:
Not really "scrolling" but "jumping", a line at a time.
Not very conducive to reading...
I concur... They added it to assist in highlighting between pages.
Why not "one finger"? Simple. There are too many features to work out. A single swipe up brings up the contextual menu. I guess they could switch and use the "two finger swipe," but that would not be best for the majority of users.
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alabama24 said:Edwin Combs said:
that's a weird way to implement scrolling. can you make it single column? the two column scrolling just seems odd.
What in the world are you talking about? Scrolling has nothing to do with columns. What are your view settings?
I have two columns on a screen. When I scroll with 2 fingers the left column scrolls up and the verses on the right column starts to scroll, but ways until there is room and then pops to the bottom of the left. creating a very jerky motion. If this was single column this would not happen. what view settings are you speaking of. under setting all I see is "preferred Bible' and "Document for highlights"
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I swore myself I would not get into any "this vs that" discussions, but I felt useful to share my experience choosing among apps and my reasons.
I have been jumping from app to app to app for the past year searching for the "perfect app". I have used OT but do not own anything on it, very nice app. I have use Accordance as well as many others. I finally settle in just one. Logos. On my iPad I still have Accordance also which is nice and could be great in the future (but I need it now because I need to know where I will invest my money), but not any longer on my iPhone. Why I chose Logos? because it has everything I need, is where i own 95% of my resources, and I just like the app.
Bible Study software cost money, lots of money, so I needed to settle in one in which I would invest my money. I chose based on where I have already invested money, in what resources are available, how easy the company makes for me to grow my library (dynamic pricing and payment plans are very helpful saving money and getting me there), what it actually can do for me and integration and experience accross apps and desktop. A mobile app should work in support and in harmony with your main Bible Study Software.
I own both Logos and Accordance. I had to make a choice as to where I was going to invest my money.
I was told I could use both, but that does not make much sense to me beyond using books not available on the other app. For me, the only way to make each app works is to invest on each one the resources you are going to use most. That would mean to invest in BDAG/HALOT for each app. Too expensive. Why spend $300 two of three times so I can use each app? That is $900!
And if I have all my resources in one app why would I use the other one? That was my dilemma.
My advice? Choose one and stick with that one.Whichever work best for your studies.They are all good.
This is why I chose Logos over Accordance papas my Bible study software (and Logos desktop for that matter)
Accordance app seems more intuitive at first (this is a matter of opinion and dependent on how well you get to know your software) but it lacks important features like "search all"- and arbitrary text selection and its note taking is a mess. I find both equally fast in the iPad and iPhone.
Even at the desktop level, Accordance Search Al feature is nice but I much prefer Logos Guide reports and Search feature. I find it much more intuitive and faster getting me what I really looking for.
Also, Accordance is not as extensively tagged as Logos. For example, if I select a reference on a Bible I only get the list of reference but if I want to see the actual reference I have to open a second pane or go to that verse replacing what I was reading. This extensive tagging makes Logos more powerful when it comes to searching your entire library and pinpointing what you are looking for. Accordance just looks for word hits and the you have to navigate or filter to find what you really looking for. Logos does that but it is also able to go straight to the entry.
I also love that logos automatically syncs with my desktop. I take notes on my iPad and magically are on my desktop. With Accordance I have to constantly synching between app and desktop.
Another plus with Logos environment is that when i purchase a resource I can tell it right and then to load up to my app, no need to synch later or use the installer like I have to do with accordance.
With Accordance, you also have to have all your resources on the app to use them. For some that may seems like a straight advantage, but I disagree. I love the fact that with Logos I have access to almost ALL my resources regardless if I have them on my device or not. And for the ones that I may need offline I just download them. The only thing missing offline is the guides.
With Logos I can also do text comparison. Accordance app? nope.
In my opinion, Accordance app is close to be great, but it is just a good reader until they add those missing features. With Logos app I can easily use it to study on the go.
For me the bottom line is the overall experience across platform and study environment. Others are close but Logos is right there. So my money is invested in just one platform.
I still use Accordance and I do like it, but for quick searches and to search books I may not have in logos and for the map feature which is really nice.
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What's your issue with highlighting? how is Logos doing it right and the others are not? I highlight in OT Bible Reader on my iPad and it appear on my Mac computer app also. I can highlight all or part of a passage. I can underline and highlight. I tried to Attached is a screen shot of what I mean.
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