I need help with Cascadia....

I need a little help.

I'm trying to integrate the Cascadia Syntax Graphs into my searching routine. I use the OpenText now because I'm so familiar with it and it's now "easy" to use.

I tried to duplicate a search that I've done in opentext but I got nothing...

the search is to find this:

Pas O (insert word here)

In other words; "the ones who-X-"

I did it in Open Text using Johh 3:16 as an example and widened it by displaying all the types of clauses but when I tried it in Cascadia...it returned nothing....

Help! Can someone tell my why my search failed? ( I have "matching skips levels" on the subject node)

Not only with this search but in general...I'm just "fuzzy" on Cascadia....

How about a few videos explaining the ins and outs of Cascadia?

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Comments

Dave Hooton

Looks like you should have "skipped" levels for Word1, Word2 and Clause 1.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53259#Comment_53259

Looks like you should have "skipped" levels for Word1, Word2 and Clause 1.

Dave,

Why should I have skipped the levels at the words? They duplicated the levels that exist in that branch in cascadia??

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53271#Comment_53271

Looks like you should have "skipped" levels for Word1, Word2 and Clause 1.

Dave,

Why should I have skipped the levels at the words? They duplicated the levels that exist in that branch in cascadia??

You needed to skip levels for Word 1 and 2 (but not Clause 1) because there were other things between the word and your previous term. I've highlighted them.

I was able to get the results you wanted, not by skipping levels, but by using Terminal nodes instead of Words.

Quoting the Cascadia Glossary "A Terminal Node is the base level of the syntactic analysis, it corresponds with the word level." It appears that the terminal node must be the last syntax tag before the word is displayed. The terminal node can be imbued with lemmas and Morph data.

Personally, I find this confusing, but it seems that you will rarely (if ever?) need to put "Words" into a Cascadia syntax search.

Dave, please correct me if I've done anything wrong with this; I'm still wrapping my head around it.

EDIT: Rick B. just replied to another Syntax thread. He answered some questions I had; they are worthwhile to help understand the syntax search http://community.logos.com/forums/p/6312/53297.aspx#53297

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53291#Comment_53291

I have another slightly different approach below.

I'm assuming that πας is the first item in the phrase. Note that in these examples πας is not the head of the phrase, so inserting the lemma at the phrase node will actually prevent the search from working as intended. However, πας is the first word in the node, so hence the "Appears = First" restriction.

I went with a terminal node because it is just easier to specify an article that way (at least for me).

64 results for the above. If, however, I remove the "Subject" clause function object and just search for the phrase, I get 118 hits.

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53398#Comment_53398

Rick,

thanks, I guess I just have to get used to the new terminology and related things...no different than Open Text was at the beginning....

thanks for the input...

How about a whole series of in depth videos? (Michael Heiser has time... [8-)] )

Just poking at ya...thanks again...

Kevin Becker

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53398#Comment_53398

64 results for the above. If, however, I remove the "Subject" clause function object and just search for the phrase, I get 118 hits.

Interesting, my search pulled down 65 hits; I wonder what the extra hit was...

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53504#Comment_53504

Ok Guys....I have a comment or two and a question:

1.) Compared to the Open Text; Cascadia (as Rick had it in the screen shot) found 14 instances in John; Open text found 31 but they were all repeated one time each...(doubles for each one)

OpenText found John 18:37 which Cascadia didn't.

I'm baffeled at why Rick searched the way he did....my mind would say to "match the Cascadia graphs" node for node but he didn't....

Rick, can you explain in detail why you searched the way you did?

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53524#Comment_53524

a screen shot of the comparison....I also tried to do an "or" verbal compliment in the Cascadia...but nothing came up....argggg..

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53524#Comment_53524

I'm baffeled at why Rick searched the way he did....my mind would say to "match the Cascadia graphs" node for node but he didn't....

It's because higher level nodes in Cascadia can point to the basic word/element they describe. If you hover over a node the L4 "strip" will show the morphology of the object word lower down the hierarchy eg. the first nominal phrase (Matt 5.22) "points to" verb LN88.174 which means we have to look at the next adjectival phrase which points to pas. We could specify that adjp and define its lemma attribute as "pas" without having to go to the word level (see below). The next nominal phrase doesn't provide what we want so that has to be put in the query and we move to the determiner/article which is easy to specify as a Terminal Node rather than get to the morphology for definite article. The CL node points to the participle so I did the "word" definition at that level without having to specify any other levels. The disadvantage is that the whole clause is highlighted, which is why Rick went to the word level. Rather than repeat the definition he simply pointed back to the clause and said "same definition/morphology as that guy"!

I get 64 results, same as Rick. I'm don't think the "First" phrase attribute was necessary to get pas and I get the same 64 results without it!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53524#Comment_53524

OpenText found John 18:37 which Cascadia didn't.

It's possible to get Jn 18.37 if you explicitly specify the Word below the Clause

You now get all participle occurrences below the Clause and the count goes to 73 with Jn 18:37 being the only new verse!

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/53532#Comment_53532

a screen shot of the comparison....I also tried to do an "or" verbal compliment in the Cascadia...but nothing came up....argggg..

The participle in Jn 18.37 is not the target of the CL clause (a noun is), so do we accept it is not a solution to our query or do we change the query to embrace it? Without specifying extra nodes the simplest solution is to look for any participle below the CL clause as per my query.