Logos for Kids--why hasn't this already happened?

Why do you think Logos would be well suited for this?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533500#Comment_533500

When is Logos going to develop a software version designed for elementary-age kids?

I think it is a great idea. I just ran it by my 4.5 year old son. He said he would like that too.

There were once a few animated Bible story CDs produced by a company called Logos. I don't know if it was related to this Logos Bible software or not.

Josh

This sounds interesting, but its probably one of those things that sounds better on paper than in actual practice. What would their base package look like? The Action Bible series, Ken Ham's Answer Books, and John Cross' "The Lamb"? What would the package be called? Instead of precious metals maybe Logos could use crayon colors. lol

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533516#Comment_533516

Good one Josh. [:)]

Personally, I don't think it's a good idea. There are a number of companies whose strength is childrens ministry. They would be better suited for this. If the goal is for older primary students and teens, then the issue is resource based. Just buy the resources you want for them now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533533#Comment_533533

There are a number of companies whose strength is childrens ministry. They would be better suited for this.

Well, I haven't seen any kids software out there that is designed to make it easy to search for words in the Bible, pull up maps and other reference books (of which there are a few out there for kids at least in print form), and interact directly with the Biblical text. I know there are lots of fun websites that have Christianese games and stories (Veggietales, for example, or JellyTelly), but nothing that helps does what Logos does (or any other Bible software out there) but in a simplified and kid-friendly format. If any of the other publishers have done something like that, let me know.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533516#Comment_533516

Instead of precious metals maybe Logos could use crayon colors. lol

And the "Tickle Me Pink" package will only be $18,000,000 (or $3,000,000 a month).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533498#Comment_533498

Why do you think Logos would be well suited for this?

Simply because they already have gazillions of dollars and people-hours already spent on developing (what they believe is) the world's premier Bible software. Surely they can take what they already do and refashion it for kids, including the resources and tools available, as well as the design and feel.

Wild Eagle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533538#Comment_533538

Deleted by user

Martin Folley

I was thinking about this for my twins ... both 8 (and approaching 9 too quickly! [:|])

They can cope with the interface, only need a couple of bibles and the info graphics/biblical facts

I do not think that there needs to be a new program ... just a way of limiting the resources that are downloaded to the local machine. I think that Bob alluded to this as a possibility in a different thread about indexing ... the ability to, online, specify which resources should be available to which devices, in a similar way that we can choose which resources go to our mobile devices ... which resources should go to our desktop machines.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533538#Comment_533538

Why do you think Logos would be well suited for this?

Simply because they already have gazillions of dollars and people-hours already spent on developing (what they believe is) the world's premier Bible software. Surely they can take what they already do and refashion it for kids, including the resources and tools available, as well as the design and feel.

I strongly disagree. If you are talking about using the same interface and adding resources for kids, great. I am for that. If you are talking about creating a new interface... Logos has zero experience doing that for kids. Actually, there are many users who feel Logos could work on the interface for adults!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533549#Comment_533549

I strongly disagree. If you are talking about using the same interface and adding resources for kids, great. I am for that. If you are talking about creating a new interface... Logos has zero experience doing that for kids. Actually, there are many users who feel Logos could work on the interface for adults!

Okay... thanks for disagreeing respectfully as well as strongly. I still think that Logos probably has the resources and talent to learn how to create an interface for kids. It's probably something they could figure out pretty quickly. I really don't care what company wants to do it. I just want it to happen.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533549#Comment_533549

Wait, are you saying you DON'T want Logos to try something like this? That the world would be a better place if they didn't try to develop kids software? Or simply that if they tried it, it would be a waste of their money because it would totally flop?

Mark Prim

I have created a family group within Faithlife. We use it for devotions, prayers, reading plans. My kids are 10,9 and 4, and read (or are supposed) to read their Bibles every night. This did require me to open accounts in their names, but this allows us as a family to be part of the same reading plan. We all read the same passage, then we can discuss what we read. Oh, I need to mention, my boys each have their own Kindles, this makes it easier. (Except the 4 yr old.)

God Bless,

Mark Prim

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533568#Comment_533568

Here is something I wrote awhile ago. Someone once told me that as a parent my biggest mission field are my kids. http://men.ag.org/life/articles/?targetBay=a1a2bc27-a71a-441c-8eda-0ea5ad51a994&ModID=2&Process=DisplayArticle&RSS_RSSContentID=17325&RSS_OriginatingChannelID=1135&RSS_OriginatingRSSFeedID=3315&RSS_Source=

p.s. I do not think Logos needs to develop something specific just for kids, we should use what is available and adapt it to what we need. Open a free account for your kids without a base package and then add the resources you want them to have. When they get old enough and decided they want more then they can get what they want.

tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533559#Comment_533559

Wait, are you saying you DON'T want Logos to try something like this? That the world would be a better place if they didn't try to develop kids software? Or simply that if they tried it, it would be a waste of their money because it would totally flop?

I will say that I do not want Logos to try this, and it is because Logos does not have any experience in this area. Children are children, they are not small adults. The human brain doesn't reach maturity till around the age of 25 (so when your teenage said that he or she wasn't thinking, it is very likely to be true because the brain does turn itself off during its growth periods).

So trying to adopt something designed for adults for children to use simply will not work.

Children do not need to do word studies, look places up on a map, or to read abstract theological concepts. While I will say that they need to hear the story of God's love, but what they need most important is to experience God's love, and I do not know how that can via a computer program.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533559#Comment_533559

Wait, are you saying you DON'T want Logos to try something like this? That the world would be a better place if they didn't try to develop kids software? Or simply that if they tried it, it would be a waste of their money because it would totally flop?

"Yes" to the first and third. Probably "yes" to the second. [:P]

Here are some of my guiding principles which inform my thoughts on this issue:

Everyone (and every business) is more productive when they focus on the FEW things that they do best, and in which they can provide the greatest contribution.
Desire and Need are not enough. Competency is crucial! Logos isn't a children's software (or ministry) company. They would have no idea what to do and shouldn't even try.
There are other companies & ministries which focus on children. They would be MUCH better suited to create something like this.
I love Logos, and I will get in trouble for writing this... but "user friendly interfaces" are not their strong suit in the first place.
I also disagree with your premise about a "huge market." There is ZERO market for this. Don't get me wrong... I am all in favor for the idea in principle (being done by someone other than Logos). A "market" requires demand. If there were demand, there would be companies doing this already (or moving towards it).
My suggestions for who might be best suited to work on a project like this?

LifeChurch.TV – This is the church founded by Craig Groeschel. His church created the YouVersion app (the most popular bible app on the planet). His church creates content for all age groups (including children) and gives it away for free.
ORANGE – Orange is a parachurch organization which promotes the partnership between the local church and parents. They are excellent content providers.
AWANA – If AWANA wants to be relevant again, creating a bible study app for kids would be a great start.

All three of those organizations would be much better at spearheading a project like this.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533579#Comment_533579

I think it'd be an excellent idea. If only to make the product usable by adults. No joke this time (!).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533584#Comment_533584

You crack me up D. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533595#Comment_533595

So the desire for Logos NOT trying to innovate in this way is out of a desire for them not to fail? A personal concern for the company? Or does it hurt the consumer/church in some way? I think I understand that you personally wouldn't be interested in purchasing or using their product. But it sounds like you think if Logos got involved with this, things would be worse than they already are.

With regards to "market"... Sometimes companies and entrepreneurs are responding to what people say they want (demand-side). Sometimes they have ideas and get people to want them (supply-side). This would probably fall in the latter.

Well, I can see that some people here feel VERY strongly that Logos should in no way attempt to make Bible software user-friendly for kids, and other people think it's a nice idea. I must be undecided. [:#]

Bruce Roth

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533606#Comment_533606

Might be illegal to start young kids out on Logos software at an early age. Addictive drug - Look at your total purchases over the years and how you respond to new resources.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533579#Comment_533579

Here are some of my guiding principles which inform my thoughts on this issue:

Everyone (and every business) is more productive when they focus on the FEW things that they do best, and in which they can provide the greatest contribution.

Desire and Need are not enough. Competency is crucial! Logos isn't a children's software (or ministry) company. They would have no idea what to do and shouldn't even try.

There are other companies & ministries which focus on children. They would be MUCH better suited to create something like this.

I love Logos, and I will get in trouble for writing this... but "user friendly interfaces" are not their strong suit in the first place.

I also disagree with your premise about a "huge market." There is ZERO market for this. Don't get me wrong... I am all in favor for the idea in principle (being done by someone other than Logos). A "market" requires demand. If there were demand, there would be companies doing this already (or moving towards it).

Bama,

let me share my thoughts:

I'm not sure about that. While it's a mantra sung very often in the corporate world, the truth is larger (diversification, economies of scale, deep pockets...). While I have no hard details if it really is so, Logos could be in a much better position than other companies because they already have contracts with publishers, experience with cross-platform apps, a large user base which includes parents, multipliers such as pastors, people who are willing to pay more to be on the leading edge and so forth.
You are right that competency is needed - however, there could be an entire level at the Bellingham HQ stuffed with people developing Logos4Kids right now, and we would only know it when they release (far-fetched scenario, I know ;-). Logos can hire people with experience in children's software - no issue.
Maybe. But perhaps these companies have no idea about creating applications. Maybe they are sprinkled over denominations etc. and would only focus on their specific program (which will be scrapped and replaced by something "new" by the time the app is ready). Perhaps it is the same as with commentaries: There are companies that have more experience than Logos in producing and publishing content, but Logos has the track record for producing the platform.
Your point reminds me of the old saying regarding democracy: the worst kind of ruling a state - save all those others. The user-friendliness of the L4/5 interface sometimes comes to some limits - but when I open WordSearch (rarely), Libronix (yup), or any other of those software I see that they are five years or more behind.
This is a self-defeating argument. Think about it: there was ZERO market for automobiles, computers, smartphones, social networks... before someone built the first stable instance. You'll know there is no market when a major player tried and failed (and even then it could be to various other effects). Sometimes there is only enough market for one big player - sometimes it is spread around hundreds. Oftentimes it will need a big investment to create the market and only a small one to be part of it once it's there, and many potential players all sit around and wait for someone else to shoulder the investment and then grab the benefits. It may not be prudent to be the one on the "bleeding edge", but that's not the same as "there is no market".

That all said, I'm not convinced that Logos4Kids would necessarily be a good idea - and maybe Logos really needs to partner with someone. Actually I tend to think that Lifeway is maybe a tad better suited than Logos for this idea: they have content, they have a software, they have the SBC organization for customers. But then again, maybe not.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533576#Comment_533576

I will say that I do not want Logos to try this, and it is because Logos does not have any experience in this area.

The same could have been said for Logos developing mobile apps, Mac software, FaithLife, Proclaim, and syncing to the cloud. When I was born I could not walk, read, chew steak, use the potty or drive a car. As individuals and companies mature they develop new skills. Logos can handle this if they choose to. Apple wisely went after the youthful users by placing their computers in schools. Right now the only Bible software poised for a coup of the new user market is Bible Explorer. It has no real learning curve and it is free.

Children are children, they are not small adults. The human brain doesn't reach maturity till around the age of 25

Once the human brain has reached maturity it has lost most of its ability to learn new things. The key is to teach them while they are young. My oldest son memorized several books of the Bible while a teenager. He also read the World Book Encyclopedia from cover to cover and taught a lot of what he learned to his younger siblings. My 13 year old has already completed several college science texts in physics.

Children do not need to do word studies, look places up on a map, or to read abstract theological concepts.

Etymologies and sentence diagramming are very helpful to learn in the elementary years. Hammond has developed a map skills curriculum for 1st through 6th grades. Most of the great theologians graduated seminary in their teens, certainly before they were 25.

I feel we miss the boat on spiritual education when we make our children wait until they have embraced the world to begin. John the Baptist leapt for joy in the womb at the news of the coming Messiah. Children can be taught spiritual truths before they think abstractly.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533630#Comment_533630

That all said, I'm not convinced that Logos4Kids would necessarily be a good idea - and maybe Logos really needs to partner with someone. Actually I tend to think that Lifeway is maybe a tad better suited than Logos for this idea: they have content, they have a software, they have the SBC organization for customers. But then again, maybe not.

So after all your rebuffing me, you come to the same conclusion. [:P]

Some more thoughts:

What does "kids bible software" entail? To one user it means learning to use a reverse interlinear, providing bible maps, etc. If that is what is meant, why isn't L5 sufficient? Personally, I agree with Tom. Kids don't need that stuff. For me the issue is content... which doesn't exist. Logos isn't the company to create the content. I would choose ORANGE/252 Basics.
2 out of 3 of the organizations I listed above would need help with developing software... But that is the easy part. Creating content and an age appropriate UI is the hard part.
If the issue is a "kid friendly" user interface, I respectfully say again: Logos has trouble doing this for adults.
As for "no market," I stand by my statement. A market is more than a need. I agree that there is a need for something like this... And a strong one at that! A "market" requires demand by people willing to buy the product. Consider this: the iPad was not the first tablet. It wasn't even the first tablet made by Apple. It was the first tablet to really be successful. There wasn't a market for tablets before... or rather I should say, there wasn't a market for the kinds of tablets sold before the iPad. There is no market for a kids version of Logos. There might be a market for another product, made by another company... But not from Bellingham.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533618#Comment_533618

Might be illegal to start young kids out on Logos software at an early age. Addictive drug - Look at your total purchases over the years and how you respond to new resources.

Seriously.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533659#Comment_533659

For me the issue is content... which doesn't exist.

Are you aware of the many children's titles in Vyrso? ie: https://vyrso.com/products/search?q=Berenstain+Bears

Creating content and an age appropriate UI is the hard part.

If Logos can't handle a UI for kids they need to hang up their spurs

There is no market for a kids version of Logos

I would buy a kids version. (9 grand-kids by Valentine's Day.) I feel teenagers can learn the regular Logos UI and find plenty of interesting content in the current catalog.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533667#Comment_533667

For me the issue is content... which doesn't exist.

Are you aware of the many children's titles in Vyrso?

Yes... And? If that is all you are concerned about, what is the big deal? Buy the Vyrso titles! Want a simpler UI? Use the iOS app! The need is for a unified experience for primary students, with content created specifically for the app.

Creating content and an age appropriate UI is the hard part.

If Logos can't handle a UI for kids they need to hang up their spurs

Thats crazy talk.

There is no market for a kids version of Logos

I would buy a kids version. (9 grand-kids by Valentine's Day.)

That's always my favorite argument: "I'd buy it." You aren't going to keep Logos Kids Software company in business.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533670#Comment_533670

Thats crazy talk.

Many moons ago, when I was studying programming, one of my assignments was to design a children's UI. Logos certainly has people on board that know childhood education and program design.

That's always my favorite argument: "I'd buy it." You aren't going to keep Logos Kids Software company in business.

That is the wrong way to look at it. It is precisely (and ONLY) the people who buy that keep a company in business. Besides, I do my part (12,339 resources) [:D]. If each of my 13 kids has 13 kids I will be buying 169 licenses for my grand-kids.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533677#Comment_533677

Many moons ago, when I was studying programming, one of my assignments was to design a children's UI. Logos certainly has people on board that know childhood education and program design.

There are thousands of children's software titles out there, but only a handful (relatively speaking) that are any good. So called "Christian" businesses are particularly bad about this.

It is precisely (and ONLY) the people who buy that keep a company in business.

You misunderstand me. It is easy to anecdotally say "I'd buy it," and find a friend of two who says the same thing. There needs to be thousands and thousands of ST's who would be willing AND able to jump on board.

William Gabriel

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533557#Comment_533557

I strongly disagree. If you are talking about using the same interface and adding resources for kids, great. I am for that. If you are talking about creating a new interface... Logos has zero experience doing that for kids. Actually, there are many users who feel Logos could work on the interface for adults!

Okay... thanks for disagreeing respectfully as well as strongly. I still think that Logos probably has the resources and talent to learn how to create an interface for kids. It's probably something they could figure out pretty quickly. I really don't care what company wants to do it. I just want it to happen.

If you feel like there's a gap in the market, this might be a perfect opportunity for you to start a business. [I am not being facetious.]

I don't think Logos would jump in that game. As I think about what Logos is about, I don't actually see enough overlap to make it worth their while. Logos is for cross-referencing collections of resources (dictionaries, lexicons, commentaries, etc.). But I don't know that a kids program would need that kind of interconnectedness. There are some really great things you could do for the young ones, but they don't need the resources that make IVP, Classic Commentaries and WBC useful. You don't need a framework that builds up arbitrary resources.

The other thing Logos is great for is OL research. But kids won't need all the nitty gritty that's there. It might be counterproductive to try and show them anything regarding Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek. That's likely a whole big chunk of the software that's neutralized.

What do kids need? They need the actual Word, first and foremost. Build up familiarization with what Scripture simply says. Some expository notes (Bible study notes) might be helpful at some point, because there will be parts the kids will need help with. I think it would be great if it could show them how it's all connected and not merely history and not a collection of moral stories.

What else would this program need? Perhaps some of the modules like notes, reading lists, prayer lists could be helpful.

I don't see Logos in that. I see a program that could be great--something that could be useful (if it actually had a kid-friendly interface). I think it would be supremely useful if the program "grew" with the child (e.g. start with illustrated stories when they're 3 and have them on your favorite translation by the time they're 16). But most of this could be predetermined. You could sell this on a disc and be done with it. It doesn't need the dynamic infrastructure Logos gives us. And so, I actually think Logos would be a bad fit for this idea, but I think it's a great idea.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533606#Comment_533606

Hello Jeffery

I think if you really want this looked at by Logos you should try to put this in user voice.

1. So that if anyone really like it Logos could see how much interest.

2. I think that a children package or product would have to be very limited so any sales for Logos would be small.

3. We know that Logos is a company they want to make money, so I really don't see them making a Logos for Kids.

4. I just don't think that many user's would want this for children and what cost if any would someone be willing to pay.

This is just my two cents on it.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533915#Comment_533915

OK, everyone got me to reconsider this subject.

I surveyed what is available on eBay and came to the conclusion that there is sufficient software in the marketplace to meet the needs of youthful users. Programs like GloBible and iLumina and a plethora of small titles are available at affordable prices.

The Logos iOs app (and Android) make the many children's titles in Vyrso available in a UI that kids are already familiar with. All these options have a very small profit margin so I do not think Logos should venture that direction.

I still believe kids need software written specifically for them and that they are capable of learning great spiritual truths.

Mitchell

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533579#Comment_533579

Wait, are you saying you DON'T want Logos to try something like this? That the world would be a better place if they didn't try to develop kids software? Or simply that if they tried it, it would be a waste of their money because it would totally flop?

"Yes" to the first and third. Probably "yes" to the second.

Here are some of my guiding principles which inform my thoughts on this issue:

Everyone (and every business) is more productive when they focus on the FEW things that they do best, and in which they can provide the greatest contribution.

Desire and Need are not enough. Competency is crucial! Logos isn't a children's software (or ministry) company. They would have no idea what to do and shouldn't even try.

There are other companies & ministries which focus on children. They would be MUCH better suited to create something like this.

I love Logos, and I will get in trouble for writing this... but "user friendly interfaces" are not their strong suit in the first place.

I also disagree with your premise about a "huge market." There is ZERO market for this. Don't get me wrong... I am all in favor for the idea in principle (being done by someone other than Logos). A "market" requires demand. If there were demand, there would be companies doing this already (or moving towards it).

My suggestions for who might be best suited to work on a project like this?

LifeChurch.TV – This is the church founded by Craig Groeschel. His church created the YouVersion app (the most popular bible app on the planet). His church creates content for all age groups (including children) and gives it away for free.

ORANGE – Orange is a parachurch organization which promotes the partnership between the local church and parents. They are excellent content providers.

AWANA – If AWANA wants to be relevant again, creating a bible study app for kids would be a great start.

All three of those organizations would be much better at spearheading a project like this.

I absolutely agree. The overlap in resources and skills between something like Logos and a kids' app is practically nil. Kids have no need for dictionaries, commentaries, original language tools, or anything like that. The only things Logos does now that could be reasonably adapted to kids' use are 1) reading Bibles and 2) the Scripture memory tool. Anybody can make those.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/533956#Comment_533956

The overlap in resources and skills between something like Logos and a kids' app is practically nil. Kids have no need for dictionaries, commentaries, original language tools, or anything like that.

I still disagree that kids could not learn from current Logos resources. Teaching Koine Greek to a primary student is a great idea and really not too hard. The curriculum developed by Bill Gothard's Advanced Training Institute does just that, from 1st through 12th grades. My 13 year old is now studying philosophy and could really use the Peter Kreeft Bundle that is about to ship. There are lots of Logos resources that will be useful to homeschool students.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/534009#Comment_534009

The overlap in resources and skills between something like Logos and a kids' app is practically nil. Kids have no need for dictionaries, commentaries, original language tools, or anything like that.

I still disagree that kids could not learn from current Logos resources.

Remember that the OP was really talking about a completely different program than L5:

When is Logos going to develop a software version designed for elementary-age kids? My daughter is in preschool. She is starting to use certain websites. Why hasn't Logos latched on to the huge market there is for Christian kids learning to use computer software and get them into studying the Bible with it? Think of all the crossword puzzles they could make, the coloring pages, the animation, the easy searches, and of course reading the Bible.

It would be one thing to have a coloring book resource in logos that you could print out pages. It would be quite another to create a coloring app. The later would be an app for KIDS. The former would be an app for adults ministering to kids.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/534047#Comment_534047

Wow... A lot of people seem to be trying to convince me (or anyone) why Logos shouldn't try this... as if somehow I have something to do with whether or not they do it. I'm really not trying to threaten anyone. I threw an idea out there--an idea that I still think would be great. I get that Logos probably won't go for it, if they even read my suggestion, so I can totally understand some of the comments that are saying, "Sorry, dude, I just don't think Logos will go for your idea." Other people seem to be saying, "That's a terrible idea, it would make the world a worse place than it already is. Shame on you for encouraging Logos to even think about it." I don't really understand that concept. I don't understand how any of the existing customers/forum members would be injured, hurt, or disadvantaged if Logos developed Bible software for kids. Would this somehow harm anyone? Are you afraid that if Logos tried this, they would go bankrupt and you would somehow lose something as a result? Another strand has been that "kids don't really need...." or "kids can't understand..." or even "kids shouldn't..." Actually, this is where I disagree the most. As a child (and I'm not THAT weird), I loved looking at maps. I used concordances. I would have loved the possibility of doing this electronically. Probably the biggest reason children don't study the Bible (which then leads to the effect of a massive group of adults that don't study the Bible and leave it up to the trained professionals) is that they are EXPECTED not to do that. They are basically expected not to think. Of course kids need to get into reading the Bible for themselves. Why not give the the OPPORTUNITY to easily read it in a few different versions. Why not give them the ability to quickly find all the occurrences of different words in a Bible version? Why not give them the possibility of having the few children's resources there are, published digitally? And why not present it in a fun, bright, friendly, colorful format, rather than a smooth, polished, minimalist format? Of course not every feature will be for every child, just like I don't use many of the features of Logos that other people do.

To conclude:

1. For those of you who think it just won't happen, I agree with disappointment.

2. For those of you who think Logos couldn't pull it off even if they tried, I disagree but can understand where you're coming from.

3. For those of you who think it would be wrong for Logos to try, I disagree, and don't really understand where you're coming from.

4. For those of you who are trying to convince ME not to try it, I'm afraid you are confused. I have no control over what Logos decides is the best use of their time and resources within their business model.

5. For those of you who are trying to convince Logos not to try it, I'm afraid I'm confused. Don't you think they want to innovate? Don't you think they are constantly trying new ideas? Don't you think they have a decision-making process that allows them to make progress without getting too invested in bad ideas? They need users like us to tell them what we want and what is or isn't working. They don't really need us to tell them what business models will work.

6. For those of you who think kids can't do stuff like word searches, and look up things in kid-friendly Bible dictionaries, I disagree. I think kids can do remarkable things if they are given the right tools at the right time in their development. And I think kids can think about remarkable things, too.

7. For those of you who think that kids SHOULDN'T do stuff like word searches, etc., I completely disagree with you. Just like grown-ups, kids shouldn't elevate intellectual study of the Bible above interacting with the text itself and meditating on it, or above following Jesus in the power of the Holy Spirit. But just like grown-ups, kids need to study it too, not just ingest it. And they CAN. Just like grown-ups.

With that said, it doesn't appear that anyone is saying anything new on this thread. I don't think there's anything more I can say. Hopefully everyone is at peace with their point of view.

Josh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/534069#Comment_534069

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/534069#Comment_534069

Probably the biggest reason children don't study the Bible (which then leads to the effect of a massive group of adults that don't study the Bible and leave it up to the trained professionals) is that they are EXPECTED not to do that. They are basically expected not to think.

I agree. This is a major flaw in our outlook. Children are much more capable than we give them credit for.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/534069#Comment_534069

Wow... A lot of people seem to be trying to convince me (or anyone) why Logos shouldn't try this... as if somehow I have something to do with whether or not they do it. I'm really not trying to threaten anyone. I threw an idea out there--an idea that I still think would be great.

Hey Jeffrey!

I don't know of anyone who is trying to convince you (or Logos) of anything. The forums, however, are not a place to make a private suggestion to Logos. When you make a suggestion, you should be prepared for people to disagree with you.

With that said, it doesn't appear that anyone is saying anything new on this thread. I don't think there's anything more I can say. Hopefully everyone is at peace with their point of view.

I don't want to belabor the point, but let me summarize and clarify a few things.

I believe in striving for excellence in all things. A mentor once told me, "If it's "Christian," it ought to be better. I personally don't think Logos is equipped to create kid's software in any form.
In your OP, you seemed to be suggesting a new program, with new capabilities, rather than just a kid version of L5. Adding coloring and interactive animation would be a great start to a kids bible app... That someone else should make.
In your last post, you seem to be arguing more for a kid version of L5. I still don't think it's a good idea for a number of reasons. Who is going to create the kid friendly dictionary? Like I said before, the content doesn't exist and Logos isn't the one to create it. Furthermore, I would be VERY concerned about theological biases. As an adult, I can read things from diverse backgrounds. My children, however, need someone to walk them through those issues. The point of creating kids bible software is for self direction... Something I would not be comfortable with participating in without really knowing where the authors are coming from.
We also disagree on spiritual formation. I strongly disagree with the view that kids need "more info." Kids need to know only a handful of things... But they need to KNOW those things. They need to LIVE and EXPERIENCE those things. Word studies don't contribute in any way to that goal. Furthermore, I believe that we do kids (and adults) a disservice when we suggest that only "superchristians" can read and understand the Bible. Kids should be given the freedom to know that they can read God's Word in their own language, and that it is a trustworthy (if imperfect) representation of His message to us today.

Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/534126#Comment_534126

I would like my oldest son to use some of Logos' resources, but as it is, there are too many resources in my library, including some I don't want him to read at his age.

On the other hand, I would not like the idea of a separate package that requires me to buy the some of the same resources again. I would prefer to give him access to resources I have that I think would be useful to him and purchase if available other titles that would be more his alley.

With this in mind, I have suggested in the past (and it was rejected) the idea of implementing profiles in Logos. My wife uses it too. It's just annoying to have to check/uncheck the note sets of other family users all the time. The idea of a profile is that as a family, we don't have to buy the same resources again for each person who uses the software in the household. Each one can set up the desktop the way they like, have their favourites, personal docs, etc. If we could do this for our children, we could hide the resources we don't want them to have access to in their profile.

The other thought that comes to mind is the app avenue. The desktop version of the software does not need to be redone with a kids interface. It has too much for kids anyway (and if someone think it's not too much, then they can use the "normal" version). Better would be to have a kids app option. The app as it is already simplifies the interface and can be suitable for kids. What it could gain is: (1) the ability to focus on resources suitable for children (and exclude unsuitable titles) and (2) perhaps an appearance that would be more appealing to kids (something "cool").

Just some thoughts, no real conviction as to what should or should not happen.