Bug: Eventually fix the search in Logos

This is just the usual reminder going back to the introduction of Logos4. I only include it here in hopes, that for Logos6 planning, maybe fix the bugs. Whenever time permits, of course.

Example 1: Right-click menu on a search-this-resource in the Bible search, re-uses earlier search criteria with un-intelligent results. Below, Logos5 is trying to find a hebrew word in the gospels, specifically Jesus quotes.

Example 2: Here I was simply trying to find a quote that I knew used the word 'death' in the NT. I've scrolled all the way to the bottom. Apparently there wasn't any death after Luke. I switched over to my own software and quickly found the results.

Example 3 and 4: And of course, the search panel still can't reliably use arrow keys. Most PCs and Macs have them now days. And Logos4/5 never has been able to simply do a quick copy of the results. Both of these were in-your-sleep programming for the Libronix boys.

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Graham Criddle

Hi Denise

Example 2: Here I was simply trying to find a quote that I knew used the word 'death' in the NT. I've scrolled all the way to the bottom. Apparently there wasn't any death after Luke

If you look at the bottom of your screenshot you will see links to later passages in the NT. Clicking on those will bring up the next set of results.

Rich DeRuiter

Example 2: Here I was simply trying to find a quote that I knew used the word 'death' in the NT. I've scrolled all the way to the bottom. Apparently there wasn't any death after Luke. I switched over to my own software and quickly found the results.

There is 'death' after Luke. On the bottom left of the window you copied are links to the next 3 pages of results (kind of hard to see on your small graphic). If you click on those you'll get to the next results.

And Logos4/5 never has been able to simply do a quick copy of the results.

You mean, you don't think the "Save as Passage list" or "Print/Export" is simple or quick? What would you prefer?

BTW, I agree that your example #1 should be looked at, so that impossible search criteria are identified and excluded, and such searches should not be allowed to run (give an error message of some kind). But most folks would quickly recognize the inconsistency and remedy it themselves. Do you agree?

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

Example 1: Right-click menu on a search-this-resource in the Bible search, re-uses earlier search criteria with un-intelligent results. Below, Logos5 is trying to find a hebrew word in the gospels, specifically Jesus quotes.

I'm curious: when should the app decide that you no longer want to search the Gospels and reset to the defaults? After 5 minutes? A day? Every single time? When there are no results?

After all, you chose (at some point) to search the Gospels; when/why should we override that?

Mark Barnes

Right-click menu on a search-this-resource in the Bible search, re-uses earlier search criteria with un-intelligent results.

I just tested this in the beta, and Logos reset the search criteria when I chose "Search this resource" (which is what I would expect). Am I doing something different, or has something changed?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536145#Comment_536145

Regarding the 3 links at the bottom of the Bible search, who would have guessed?? Especially when they appear dead (they don't have any popups, etc). Most software says 'More ....' Also, there's more 'Luke' ... why 3 random links from Romans, Hebrews, etc?

Regarding Bradley, I'm not sure I was clear. I'm in the hebrew interlinear (don't tell George), I right-click a hebrew word to see its usage in the hebrew Bible (selecting search-this-resource). I can't imagine why Logos would use earlier criteria from an NT search (thereby automatically failing). This has been around since 2009.

Mark ... since I've noticed this issue in other areas of Logos (they mix up their internal settings vs what seeable by users), I'm just guessing when one leaves a search panel open, and then adds ANOTHER search, the earlier criteria is still in place, even though Logos is calling a completely new search.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536158#Comment_536158

Regarding Bradley, I'm not sure I was clear. I'm in the hebrew interlinear (don't tell George), I right-click a hebrew word to see its usage in the hebrew Bible (selecting search-this-resource). I can't imagine why Logos would use earlier criteria from an NT search (thereby automatically failing). This has been around since 2009.

Gotcha, it makes sense to reset the criteria when the resource changes.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536139#Comment_536139

Example 1: Right-click menu on a search-this-resource in the Bible search, re-uses earlier search criteria with un-intelligent results. Below, Logos5 is trying to find a hebrew word in the gospels, specifically Jesus quotes.

I'm curious: when should the app decide that you no longer want to search the Gospels and reset to the defaults? After 5 minutes? A day? Every single time? When there are no results?

After all, you chose (at some point) to search the Gospels; when/why should we override that?

Why all the sarcasm? You must know very well that you have programmed Logos to normally reset everything for a search like that. So Denise has every right to expect it to do so, and every right to report when it doesn't, and without being ridiculed for it.

I opened Search. It happened to look like this:

I closed it again, right-clicked in an LXX I happened to have open, and launched a Search This Resource. I got this:

That's what should (and usually does) happen. The LXX doesn't include the NT, so it reset to All Passages. In fact, even if my last search was, say, the Poetical Books, a Search This Resource still resets to All Passages, because, well, I did ask it to search the resource, not a (rather random) part of the resource.

But for some reason Search sometimes misses this reset. As in Denise's post, and as in my similar bug thread at BUG: Rather amusing search launched from BWS Textual Searches. I never bumped that one, because I couldn't repeat it when I tried later, but clearly something is still amiss.

EDIT: Should have refreshed the page before hitting Post...

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536170#Comment_536170

I forgot to answer Richard.

If you remember Bible Comparison at one time didn't have a copy. It was all or nothing (export). Then, refreshingly, they went back and put in routines to support individual text copy.

In search, they've very likely avoided it. My guess is that it's because the search panel uses a drop down approach (data structure). So neither copying a snippet that answers the question, or arrowing up or down can be quickly whipped out.

Just seems to me Logos' claim to fame is the large library and the search panels.

Rich DeRuiter

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536183#Comment_536183

In search, they've very likely avoided it.

? I'm able to save my search results as a passage list. Do you not have this ability? Or are you talking about something else?

Please clarify.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536185#Comment_536185

I'm able to save my search results as a passage list.

If you get 186 results, you are able to copy and save the 31 that interest you as a Passage List? And what if it's not a Bible Search?

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536170#Comment_536170

Why all the sarcasm? You must know very well that you have programmed Logos to normally reset everything for a search like that. So Denise has every right to expect it to do so, and every right to report when it doesn't, and without being ridiculed for it.

It wasn't sarcasm. It was a question — asking your opinion as to what the logic ought to be. You answered that later, by pointing out that one time it should reset would be after a resource change.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536203#Comment_536203

If you get 186 results, you are able to copy and save the 31 that interest you as a Passage List?

Sure you can. Just right-click on each one to add to a Passage List. Or, even quicker, add them all then delete the ones you don't want.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536207#Comment_536207

It was a question

It was the kind of mostly rhetorical line of questions you reply with when you find something absurd. I admit I have occasionally enjoyed, even admired, such lines from Bradley, when they've been in response to someone who truly was absurd and unreasonable. But in this case it was completely uncalled for, since Denise's OP had already stated perfectly clearly that she was doing a right-click Search This Resource, which you and I and Bradley all know should reset the search.

Just right-click on each one to add to a Passage List. Or, even quicker, add them all then delete the ones you don't want.

Both of which are extremely slow. And neither of which works in a normal Basic Search, which is what I suspect Denise was talking about. There you have to open the resource before you can copy the search result.

This isn't something I've felt any urgent need for myself. I was just trying to explain what I think Denise meant. And I agree with her that it seems such a basic feature that it's kind of odd that it doesn't work.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536234#Comment_536234

But in this case it was completely uncalled for, since Denise's OP had already stated perfectly clearly that she was doing a right-click Search This Resource, which you and I and Bradley all know should reset the search.

But that does reset the search.

Both of which are extremely slow.

They're instant for me (unless there are literally thousands of verses).

But in this case it was completely uncalled for,

If it was sarcasm (which I don't think it was), then it was probably prompted by the fact that the OP began with "I only include it here in hopes, that for Logos6 planning, maybe fix the bugs. Whenever time permits, of course.", and ended with, "And of course, the search panel still can't reliably use arrow keys. Most PCs and Macs have them now days." It's perhaps a little hypocritical to complaint about someone else being sarcastic if you begin the conversation with that.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536260#Comment_536260

Resetting the criteria works as long as there's no earlier query panel already open.

But being able to quickly copy small portions of the search is considerably more efficient than dumping out a large export or passage list. It's literally faster to shift-tab over to Libronix, repeat the search for the narrowed-down area and quickly copy.

But again I suspect the missing arrow functionality in the search panel and no text copying is due to the data structure which hopefully L6 can deal with more efficiently.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536285#Comment_536285

Resetting the criteria works as long as there's no earlier query panel already open.

I don't know if 5.2beta is different, but here's what I'm doing:

Load Logos
Do a Bible search for 'Jesus' in the Gospels.
Open one of the results.
Select a random word in the Bible, right-click, choose 'selection' or 'lemma', and choose 'Search this resource'. The criteria is reset to 'All Passages'.
Close that search pane and go to the previous one that still says "Gospels". Choose "Send Searches here".
Repeat (4). The criteria is again reset to "All Passages".

What am I doing different, or is the behaviour different in 5.2?

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536359#Comment_536359

Well, actually, I hope you're correct (fixed maybe by accident). But through the years, it's always been the hebrew search-this-resource relative to an earlier NT gospels (or that's always my sequence!).

Also I typically switch the earlier search pane back to basic (from Bible) .... cleanliness is next to Godliness in Bible software. And the pane is existing there for 2-3 weeks (Logos just crashed again, so now it will reset!).

So whatever the sequence is, the search-this-resource is (was?) not fully populating the criteria. If I were a betting lady, I'd bet when the pane is initialized, Logos brings in the earlier criteria and independent of the search-this-resource routine similar to what Bradley suggested initially.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/536397#Comment_536397

it's always been the hebrew search-this-resource relative to an earlier NT gospels (or that's always my sequence!).

So whatever the sequence is, the search-this-resource is (was?) not fully populating the criteri

Just tried this sequence in 5.2 beta 1, and the search range reset from Gospels to All Passages.