Logos box products reviewed
This is my own highly subjective opinion of the Logos boxed products, from the perspective of an information professional evaluating their usefulness for personal Bible research at an academic standard. Note that I am assessing then purely from that perspective. My entry point is therefore the Original Languages Library. I am not considering any products lower than this.
* Original Languages Library: $415.95* Ratio of scholarly to non-scholarly works: 4
* Ratio of research works to non-research works: 4
* Subject range: 3 (only because it's mainly focussed on textual criticism and original language tools)
* Contains resources not freely or more cheaply available elsewhere:4
* Value for money: 4
This collection, as you can deduce from the name, is aimed at textual criticism and lexical studies, and the works it contains are well suited to the purpose. The number of scholarly original language texts it contains is considerable. Aside from the ESV reverse interlinear, it also contains:
* Nestle-Aland 27th Edition Greek NT w/ McReynolds English Interlinear & Logos Morphology: This is the Greek New Testament text used by basically every modern English Bible printed these days. It comes complete with an interlinear, and morphology (actually telling you the grammatical form of each word where it appears)
* Lexham Hebrew-English Interlinear Bible and Interlinear Literal Translation of the Greek New Testament (Newberry): Alternative interlinears of the Old and New Testaments respectively
* NRSV English-Greek Reverse Interlinear of the NT: An alternative reverse interlinear
* The Greek New Testament, Fourth Revised Edition w/ McReynolds English Interlinear & Logos Morphology: This is a Greek New Testament text based on the same Greek textual evidence as the Nestle-Aland 27th Edition above. However, it is different in some places, as it was put together by a different committee, which made some different decisions concerning a number of passages. In their evaluation of the textual evidence, the committee which produced this text gave a different weighting to some texts, or preferred alternative readings to those chosen by the editors of the Nestle-Aland edition
But there's more, a lot more. It also has the Byzantine/Majority Textform w/ Robinson Morphology, themElzevir Textus Receptus (1624) w/ Robinson Morphology, Scrivener's Textus Receptus (1894) w/ Robinson Morphology, Stephen’s Textus Receptus (1550) w/ Robinson Morphology the Westcott-Hort Greek NT (1881) w/ Robinson Morphology, and Tischendorf's Greek New Testament. These are historical critical texts which you are unlikely to use, though you may find it useful to look at the Byzantine/Majority Textform, the various editions of the Receptus, and Westcott/Hort. As if that wasn't enough, there's still more. It also has the Septuagint (Rahlfs), w/CCAT Morphological Tagging, as well as a number of the previous New Testament texts with alternative morphology (such as Swanson's).
And now let's start on the Old Testament texts:
* Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia w/ WIVU Hebrew Morphology: This is the Hebrew Old Testament text used by virtually every modern Bible printed (not the same as the KJV's Hebrew source text). You'll only use this properly if you can read Hebrew (I can't, so I don't use it at all)
* The Parallel Aligned Hebrew-Aramaic and Greek Texts of Jewish Scripture (Tov): This places the Hebrew/Aramaic Old Testament text alongside the Greek Old Testament text. Great for identifying the differences, if you can read Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek (I can't, so I never use it)
There are a couple of other Hebrew Old Testament morphologies as well, along with the Aramaic texts and the Latin Vulgate, which will be of little use to most of us (I can barely manage with the Vulgate, and the Aramaic is completely wasted on me). Moving on to some of the other valuable texts, we find The Text of the Earliest New Testament Greek Manuscripts. It contains the Greek text and translation of all the very earliest Greek New Testament texts. It also contains an excellent introduction to the history of the transmission and textual criticism of the New Testament which will provide you with a scholarly insight into the entire process, which most people either completely misunderstand or simply don't know anything about (I've been in both categories). Recommended reading if you want to know anything about the subject.
There are also a lot of valuable works in translation, such as:
* The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the OT in English (Charles): Very valuable. Even though this edition and translation by RC Charles is dated now (1913), it remains a perfectly useable collection of the non-canonical works written during the interestamental era. It costs $250 on its own.
* The Nag Hammadi Library in English: Fourth Revised Edition: Oh, those Gnostics! Everyone's always talking about them, and this is what they're talking about, the largest collection of Gnostic texts ever found (note that the NG Library also contained many non-Gnostic texts). This resource is useful for checking what the Gnostics really did say, given people attribute to them all kinds of ideas, including many you'll never find in their writings. There's $66 of solid research material here
* The Context of Scripture (3 volumes): Now come on, this is sold for $300 just by itself. You've seem all those presentations in which a brother digs out some ancient text with a relevance to the Bible (like the Merneptah Stele, the Moabite Stone, the Tell Dan Stele, Taylor's Prism, or the Cyrus Cylinder), and perhaps you've wondered 'Wow, where did he get all that?'. Well he probably scruffed it from a mate, or Googled frantically on Sunday afternoon, or typed it out from a Bible dictionary or something similar. But you can get huge amounts of this kind of material right here in this collection. Previously the standard collection of such resources was Pritchard's 'Ancient Eastern Texts Relating To The Old Testament' (I have the third edition with supplement in hardcopy on my shelf), a printed work which means you have to type out everything yourself.
This is the successor, a comprehensive scholarly work of great value dating to 1997, which makes it the most up to date collection of its kind. It does not contain the same texts however, so there's still a place for Pritchard (which is available for the Logos Library System at a cost of $80). In 'The Context of Scripture' you'll find the Mesha Stele (Moabite Stone), Tel Dan Stele, the Siloam Tunnel Inscription, the controversial Jerusalem Pomegranate, the Deir Alla inscription (which specifically mentions Balaam the son of Beor), the Temple of the Lord Ostracon (a fragment mentioning a dedication of three shekels of silver 'for the house of Yahweh', dating to the reign of Josiah), the Royal Steward Inscription (referring to Shebna, Hezekiah's steward), the Ketef Hinnom Amulets (which contain the blessing of Numbers 6:24-26), as well as a host of other incredibly useful finds (such as many seals identifying Biblical characters). Definitely terrific value for money, especially bundled in this collection
* The Amarna Letters: 14th century Canaanite correspondence with Egypt, very useful for the late Bronze Age, and oft cited in the scholarly literature
* Complete Works of Josephus: Speaks for itself, everyone loves Josephus
* Ancient Egyptian Literature, volumes 1-3: Very useful for Egyptian research, especially when comparing the Law of Moses to Egyptian law and health/hygiene regulations
But we haven't finished yet. Now let's start on the serious lexical materials:
* Enhanced Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the OT: Forget Strong's, Young's, Cruden's, Gesenius, and Thayer (you'll already get Enhanced Strong's and Gesenius in this package anyway). This is a scholarly 20th century Hebrew lexicon which was for decades the standard work in the field. It has only been surpassed comparatively recently, and for average use is still all that most people will ever need in terms of a Hebrew lexicon which is still widely respected in academic circles
* A Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament: This is an abridged version of HALOT, the successor to BDB (the work previously described), and for all it's an abridged version which isn't as up to date as the full HALOT, it's still incredibly useful and supplements BDB very well. Between this and BDB you'll be using some of the best resources in Hebrew lexical studies
* An Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott: This is an abridged version of LJS9 (with revised supplement), the grandfather of Greek lexicons, with a scope sweeping from from the 11th century BC to the Byzantine Period. Even though it's abridged, it's still incredibly valuable. By the way, you can search for Greek words in the full version of LSJ9 online here for free, but you need to know your Greek (or at least your transliteration)
* Theological Dictionary of the New Testament (10 volumes): Incredibly useful. Costs $200 on its own. Considered a standard work in the field. Like a lexicon it's indexed in Greek, so you'll have to know your Greek to use it properly, but if you can manage that you'll be able to find gems like a 22 page entry on baptw, which covers the usage of the word from the classical Greek era right through to the 4th century Christian era, along with its Jewish use in sources such as the Septuagint and Josephus. Amazing value here
* A Greek-English Lexicon of the Septuagint, Revised Edition: Specific to the LXX, a very useful resource usually selling for US$75 on its own. A recent scholarly work, well respected
* Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament based on Semantic Domains: Louw and Nida's classic work, grouping lexical data into semantic domains listed in English, rather than an alphabetical list of words in their original Greek. A late 20th century lexicon from two very well respected scholars, and frequently cited by academics. Much easier to search for English speakers without Greek knowledge. The headwords in the lexical entries are still in Greek, but you can transliterate them if necessary
As if that wasn't enough already, there are a couple of useful archaeologcal works thrown in:
* The Dead Sea Scrolls And Modern Translations Of Old Testament: A good accurate summary of the content and significance of the 'Dead Sea Scrolls'. No sensationalism or conspiracy theories here
* The Archaeological Encyclopedia of the Holy Land: Published in 1990 this 1996 revised edition still this isn't up to date with the latest archaeological developments, and shows its age in parts. But it is still considered one of the classic works on archaeology, and remains a standard publication to which professional archaeologists still direct the layman. Contributions have been made by a very broad sweep of scholars, who do not all agree with each other or hold the same view of the Biblical text, but this provides a well balanced if not completely uniform presentation of the evidence
This collection costs $415.95. There are four works here which if purchased separately would add up to at least $600. In reality there's closer to $900 of scholarly material here. If you're not ready to go to the next level and spend another $200, this is the collection to purchase as the foundation of a formidable research library.
* Scholar's Library:
$629.95
* Ratio of scholarly to non-scholarly works: 3
* Ratio of research works to non-research works: 3
* Subject range: 3
* Contains resources not freely or more cheaply available elsewhere: 3
* Value for money: 3
This collection is significantly higher in price than the last, but
unfortunately not as good value. It's a combination of most of the
resources of the last collection, and a lot of the 'leadership' and
'pastor' works from an earlier collection. It includes the works of
Philo ($25), but is missing Context Of Scripture and The Text of the
Earliest Greek Manuscripts.
However, it also has the Enhanced
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the OT ($50, the
last collection had the abridged edition), Theological Wordbook
of the Old Testament ($50, highly valuable, lists words in
English), and Analytical
Lexicon of the Greek New Testament ($30, which lists Greek words in
the grammatical forms in which they appear in the New Testament, not
just the root words). The New Testament
Milieu ($30), and New Manners
and Customs of the Bible ($15), are also useful.
Is there another $200 of value here over the last collection however?
On balance I would say no. The loss of Context Of Scripture ($300
worth), is difficult to compensate, and the additional lexical sources
don't really make up for this given that they are tools most of us
wouldn't make the most of in any case (whereas COS would be used far
more frequently).
* Ratio of scholarly to non-scholarly works: 3
* Ratio of research works to non-research works: 3
* Subject range: 3
* Contains resources not freely or more cheaply available elsewhere: 3
* Value for money: 3
This collection is significantly higher in price than the last, but
unfortunately not as good value. It's a combination of most of the
resources of the last collection, and a lot of the 'leadership' and
'pastor' works from an earlier collection. It includes the works of
Philo ($25), but is missing Context Of Scripture and The Text of the
Earliest Greek Manuscripts.
However, it also has the Enhanced
Brown-Driver-Briggs Hebrew and English Lexicon of the OT ($50, the
last collection had the abridged edition), Theological Wordbook
of the Old Testament ($50, highly valuable, lists words in
English), and Analytical
Lexicon of the Greek New Testament ($30, which lists Greek words in
the grammatical forms in which they appear in the New Testament, not
just the root words). The New Testament
Milieu ($30), and New Manners
and Customs of the Bible ($15), are also useful.
Is there another $200 of value here over the last collection however?
On balance I would say no. The loss of Context Of Scripture ($300
worth), is difficult to compensate, and the additional lexical sources
don't really make up for this given that they are tools most of us
wouldn't make the most of in any case (whereas COS would be used far
more frequently).
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
Comments
-
* Scholar's Library Silver:
$999.95
* Ratio of scholarly to non-scholarly works: 3
* Ratio of research works to non-research works: 3
* Subject range: 4
* Contains resources not freely or more cheaply available elsewhere: 3
* Value for money: 3
A substantial hike in price over the last collection, which means we're
now looking for $600 more value than the Original Languages Library,
which is a big ask. I think it comes close, because the coverage is
broader. This is actually the collection I started with.
It contains the same works as the last collection, as well as:
* Text of the
Earliest Greek Manuscripts: $40 Very useful, for the reasons
previously described
* Ancient
Egyptian Literature, Volumes 1-3: $60 Another resource you won't
be opening often, but useful to have around the place for studies
requiring archaeological background material
* Keil &
Delitzsch Commentary on the OT (10 Volumes): $120 A 19th century
commentary, exhaustive in its analysis, and though dated still contains
much of value. The general tone is conservative (it argues for a
global flood, and rejects any form of the Documentary Hypothesis)
* A Greek
English Lexicon of the Septuagint: $75 Very useful, for the
reasons described previously
* Early Church
Fathers (37 Volumes): $250 The classic collection of the works of
the early Christians, essential for original research into the
development of the apostasy, as well as providing a wealth of early
Christian history. I have scoured these works for their prophetic
interpretations, but they are also invaluable for tracing the
development of apostate beliefs, as well as the history of the Biblical
canon. It's true this same collection of early Christian writings is
available freely online, but there's a huge advantage in terms of
convenience when you use the collection which is integrated into the
Logos Library system. It's a whole lot easier to navigate, and a lot
faster to search (and you can create far more complex searches). In
addition, the Logos Library edition is linked to the Bible translations
you have, making it easier to look up Bible quotes and allusions which
are mentioned in the text. There's also the useful keylink function
However, apart from that there's not much to offer above the standard
Scholars Library considered previously. We're looking for $600 more
value than the Original Languages Library, and it's just not here.
There's at least $550 of extra value in terms of specific research
sources, but arguably not more. There are more Bible translations, and
some different manuscript resources, but not the type which are very
likely to be used by most people. Are you going to read the Old Syriac
Gospels in Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Curetonianus? I didn't think
so. Nor am I. I don't even know what Syriac looks like. Having said
which, the scope is certainly broader, which you may makes up for the
financial shortfall. I think it's a tough choice which you'll have to
make for yourself. I for one would miss The Context Of Scripture.Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
* Scholar's Library Gold: $1,379.95
* Ratio of scholarly to non-scholarly works: 5
* Ratio of research works to non-research works: 4
* Subject range:5
* Contains resources not freely or more cheaply available elsewhere: 5
* Value for money: 5
This
is as good as it gets in terms of value for money, if you can't spend
more than this. It's also a dramatically more expensive collection. This
is a huge amount of money to spend on a single research library, but
taking a closer look you can see where the money is. There's simply
nothing else on the market which comes close to this, from what I have
seen, at this price point (Portfolio is another story). It contains
everything in the Scholar's Library Silver, as well as:
* Context Of Scripture: $300 An old favourite returns
*
The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the OT in English (Charles): $250
You can find the Apocrypha as a free Online Bible Module, but it won't
contain the Pseudepigrapha, or Charles' commentary and text critical
notes
* The Encyclopedia of Christianity:
Volumes 1-3: $290 This is a work I recommend highly. It's an English
language subject dictionary of common terms in Christianity, from
'Calvinism', to 'Canaan', 'Eschatology' to 'Llullian Method'. Apart from
all the useful information on words you already know, it contains a lot
of words you very likely don't and a huge amount of historical
information This is a particularly useful resource to help you navigate
scholarly material which used standard theological terms. All else
aside, it's a terrific Bible dictionary which is a serious cut above
most in the field. Very good value for money, and the fourth volume has
just been released
* Early Church Fathers (37 Volumes): $250 Always worth having, for the reasons mentioned previously
We're
up to $1,090 already just with these four resources, all of which are
worth having, and all of which you are likely to use regularly. That
means that even these four works alone represent $1,000 more value than
the last collection, and the last collection had at least $500 more
value than the one before. Together with the huge range of Bible
translations, and the excellent lexical resources, there's easily $1,800
of value here, well justifying the price. But there's plenty more to
come.
* The Amarna Letters: $40 Bronze Age correspondence, we know about this
* The Complete Works of Josephus: $20 Our favourite Jewish historian, well worth the money
*
The Works of Philo: $30 Other than Josephus, the most important 1st
century Jewish writer outside Scripture though you may need to learn
why, and how to use him
* The Nag Hammadi Library in English:
Fourth Revised Edition: $66 Not casual reading, nor likely to be read
very often, but essential if you ever encounter Gnostic studies or silly
claims about what they believed
* Ancient Egyptian Literature,
Volumes 1-3: $60 Another resource you won't be opening often, but useful
to have around the place for studies requiring archaeological
background material
All cheap but useful resources (another $250
worth), and you're getting them thrown in pretty much for free.
Not only that, this collection also includes some very important works
which weren't included in any of the previous collections.
* The
Works of Philo: Greek Text with Morphology: $100 If you're serious about
your Philo, its useful to have him in Greek as well as English
* History of the Christian Church:
$80 Schaff's exhaustive and still well respected history, valuable
despite its age (1911), and very useful for research into Christian
history and the development of the apostasy
* Semeia: An Experimental Journal for Biblical Criticism (91 Volumes):
$50 A modern academic journal with a different emphasis to most, and
may seem a little offbeat at first. But I can tell you from experience
there's some quality scholarship here. I found this particularly useful
when I challenged by an atheist 'If the health and hygiene rules in the
Law of Moses are so great, why did the Christians abandon them?', a
question I had puzzled over myself
* A Textual Commentary on the Greek New Testament - Metzger:
$35 Essential reading if you want to understand New Testament textual
criticism, and how scholars make their decisions as to what was in the
original texts. This is a companion volume to Nestle/Aland 27, the Greek
New Testament text used by almost every modern English Bible. The real
value of this book is that it explains in detail the various textual
decisions made by the committee which compiled that text, so you can
understand why the text reads as it does
* Complete Word Study Dictionary NT:
$45 A classic work by Zodhiates, oft cited. It contains headwords in
Greek, so you'll have to know your Greek or transliterate, but the
entries are very useful
* Baker Encyclopedia of the Bible (4 Volumes):
$140 A conservative and theologically biased encyclopedia which is
nevertheless a cut above the average, well researched, and especially
useful on archaeology
* Exegetical Dictionary of the New Testament (3 Volumes):
$140 A huge dictionary which goes beyond merely the meanings of the
Greek words (which are listed in Greek), and describes the social,
historical, and religious context in which they were used, as well as
their different applications and meanings in various passages
* The United Bible Societies' New Testament Handbook Series (20 Volumes): $400
* The United Bible Societies' Old Testament Handbook Series (21 Volumes): $400
There
is $800 of value here with these two collections alone, seriously. It's
ridiculous that you can scoop these two up along with everything else
listed above, for the laughable price of $1,370. Thus far I haven't
bothered mentioning the numerous Bible commentaries bundled with these
collections, because most of them don't fit into the academic/scholarly
bracket. But these handboooks are in a class of their own. These were
written specifically for translators to help translators understand the
Biblical text when they are making translation decisions.
You'll
find here insights into the text which you simply will not find in any
other Biblical commentary. These are professional commentaries for
professionals. Remember, they are aimed at helping the translators
choose the correct words in English to render the original Hebrew and
Greek, so they won't provide exactly the same kind of commentary as you
may be useful (they're not interested in finding Bible echoes or deep
spiritual insights). What you will find is an excellent presentation of
the kinds of decision making processes through which translators move
when choosing how to render the text in English, which will really help
you get behind modern Bible translations and evaluate them rigorously
* The New International Greek Testament Commentary (12 Volumes):
$533 Yes, that's correct. These twelve volumes on the New Testament are
usually priced at $533 by themselves, despite the fact that this
constitutes commentary only on twelve of the New Testament books. There
is much of value here, and even though in places it is extremely liberal
(each volume was written by a different author, so the same perspective
isn't reflected throughout the work), it still provides extensive
commentary from the conservative viewpoint which is extremely useful
(the exhaustive though liberal biased commentary on 1 Corinthians 11 is a
case in point)
* PBB Reading Key: There's a module you can buy
for the Logos Library system which allows you to actually create your
own Logos Library books. This isn't it. What this does provide is the
capacity to read such books as produced by other Logos Library users.
This is particularly useful, since users aren't allowed to sell the
works they produce with the Logos Library, so as with the Online Bible
there are a lot of free user made Logos Library modules online
This
is collection is the stuff. If you will actually use these resources
and you can afford to buy this collection, then do so. You may well be
better off purchasing the Original Languages collection first, and
upgrading to this at a convenient time in the future (you should receive
a discount by upgrading, if I remember correctly).Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
* Portfolio: $4,290
* Ratio of scholarly to non-scholarly works: 6
* Ratio of research works to non-research works: 5
* Subject range: 6 (only because it's mainly focussed on textual criticism and original language tools)
* Contains resources not freely or more cheaply available elsewhere:5
* Value for money: 6This is the premiere product. If you are interested in Bible study at a scholarly level and you can afford this package, buy it. Look at just some of the titles included, along with their stand alone retail prices:
* Baker Exegetical Commentary on the New Testament (8 Vols.): $224.95, a very good commentary collection
* Baker New Testament Commentary (12 Vols.): $159.95, contains some extremely useful exposition
* Believer’s Church Bible Commentary (19 Vols.): $349.95, only an average commentary, but still useful
* Classic Commentaries on the Greek New Testament (14 Vols.): $199.95, contains Lightfood and Wescott, among others
* College Press NIV Commentary Series (35 Vols.): $398.8, an excellent set
* Studies in the Dead Sea Scrolls (12 Vols.): $219.95
* The Dead Sea Scrolls Study Edition Vol. I: 1Q1–4Q273 – Vol. II: 4Q274–11Q31: $89.95
* The Encyclopaedia of Judaism: Vols. 1–5: $349.95
* Critical Review of Books in Religion: $129.95
* International Standard Bible Encyclopedia (ISBE 1979–1995): $129.95
* Dictionary of Deities and Demons in the Bible: $79.95
* The Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, rev. ed.: $150.00
I bought this as an upgrade over Gold. There is well over US$1,000 of extra value here. Works highlighted are those I had wanted to buy individually but hadn't been able to afford. They total $1,144 alone, which is already a quarter of the cost of this package. This is incredible value for money.Here's a list of significant items in Portfolio. I have highlighted those I already owned before I upgraded.
* Messianism Among Jews and Christians: $44.95: a 400 odd page study of the historical view of Messiah among early Jews and Christians, with an explanation of how this contributes to our understanding of the New Testament; important background material for the world of Christ
* A History of the Jewish People in the Time of Jesus Christ (5 Vols.): $179.95: a 19th century work which remains an oft referred to classic, still useful to understanding the historical background of Christ and the New Testament
* Studies in the Dead Sea Scrolls (12 Vols.): $219.95: a huge scholarly collection which is invaluable to an proper knowledge of these oft cited but little understood texts; contains works explaining the various collections of texts, a work providing English translations of the texts, and another work describing the recent history of scholarship on the texts (dated to 2003, so equivalent to 'current research' for this field)
* Bible and the Arts Collection (4 Vols.): $89.95: discusses the many ways in which art, music, and yes even interpretive dance play a legitimate role in mediating the Scriptures and communicating their message to others
* Hermeneutics Collection (12 Vols.): $649.95: a huge scholarly collection of works explaining the principles of interpretation and their importance to studying the Scriptures; very important to anyone who wants to at least try to understand how modern scholarly commentators work
* A Handbook to the Exegesis of the New Testament: $49.95: a small but useful volume providing a detailed overview of various exegetical methods used by modern scholars, as well as critiques of some methods used and an explanation of how relevant background material (literary, historical, etc), informs our understanding of the New Testament; essential for anyone wanting to understand how modern New Testament scholars actually approach the text and why, instead of relying on guesswork on hearsay about what 'theologians' do
* Gnostic and Apocryphal Studies Collection (10 Vols.): $649.95: a massive and extremely valuable collection of scholarly works on the gnostic and apocryphal works, very useful for studies in this field especially when faced with the difficulty of discerning truth from conflicting claims regarding the Gnostics and apocryphals, particularly popular claims made by people who have never studied the subject (and who are commonly hijacking it for their own agenda)
* History of Interpretation, by Frederick William Farrar: $32.95: extremely useful and very detailed historical treatment of the history of interpretive methodology from the Jewish era to the late Christian era, a 19th century work still regarded well today for its scope and depth; be aware that Farrar was a Preterist however, and this does influence his treatment of the Scriptural text
* Luke: Historian and Theologian: $18.95: a little volume by I Howard Marshall, who isn't a conservative but who provides (among other things), a presentation of Luke's record as historically credible
* New Testament Interpretation: $34.95: another work by I Howard Marshall, this time examining the methods by which people interpret the New Testament, discussing problems such as presuppositions and the application of the text to ourselves today
* New Testament Studies Collection (7 Vols.): $99.95: probably too far off the wall for most people, this is a useful collection for understanding criticism of postmodernism, as well as investigating some modern reassessments of salvation and the Spirit
* Perspectives on Paul Collection (8 Vols.): $199.95: a range of scholarly works investigating the new interpretations of Paul which have emerged in recent years, some of which represent a significant advance in scholarship (depending on your point of view)* To What End Exegesis?: $19.95: Gordon Fee, liberal and egalitarian textual critic, read carefully and compare with other commentaries
* Anthropology in Theological Perspective: $84.00: a very important and detailed study (552 pages!), on the religious implications of 'human biology, psychology, cultural anthropology, sociology and history'
* Ariel Ministries Messianic Collection (11 Vols.): $319.95: Fruchtenbaum makes some very basic blunders, repeating many long outdated and debunked exegetical and historical claims, but this collection is still useful to see what modern Messianic exegesis looks like
* Baptism Collection (3 Vols.): $54.95: a significant collection of historical and exegetical treatments of the subject
* Brave New World?: Theology, Ethics and the Human Genome: $72.00: a detailed scholarly work containing contributions from scientists and theologians on a hotly debated topic
* Oxford Movement Historical Theology Collection (10 Vols.): $124.95: a good selection from one of the most influential 19th century theological movements (the works by Pusey were especially important to the movement), contains some very useful historical treatment of early Christianity
* Postliberal Theological Method: $28.9: essential reading for those attempting to understand new church movements
* Reordering Nature: Theology, Society and the New Genetics: $72.00: the Bible, ethics, and biotechnology
* The Fundamentals (4 Vols.): $24:95: this is the influential collection of works belonging to the 19th century theological movement which took the 'fun' out of 'fundamentalist', and gave us the term which has become a byword and a hissing for some, a banner of truth and standard of orthodoxy for others; this collection is very useful for anyone wishing to identify how 19th century Christadelphian understanding differed significantly from the original 'Fundamentalists', as well as providing a clear demonstration of how today's Fundamentalists differ significantly from their 19th century ancestors* The Dictionary of Historical Theology: $44.95: a very useful reference work, covering a range of theological terms and individuals, from Amyraldianism to Wobbermin, Alacoque to Zwingli
* A History of the First Christians: $150.00: an extensive history of the development of Christianity from its origin within Judaism to its later relationship with the Roman empire
* In Praise of Christian Origins: Stephen and the Hellenists in Lukan Apologetic Historiography: $75.00: a dense work of 440 pages focusing on Acts 6:1-8:3, examining issues in the early ecclesia and assessing Luke's narrative from the point of view of an apologetic or preaching tool, rather than a strict historiography
* Neither Jew Nor Greek: Constructing Early Christianity: $90.00: a scholarly study of early Christian community, covering issues such as its departure from Judaism and the role of women; very useful, and very balanced despite the fact that the author is highly liberal* Primitive Christianity: A Survey of Recent Studies and Some New Proposals: $60.00: essential reading on the earliest Christian communities, this slender but densely packed volume covers 25 years of scholarship up to 2003, presenting the latest academic views and provding some very balanced commentary, especially on the role of women
* The Elders: Seniority within Earliest Christianity: $90: published in 2004, this is one of the standard studies on the subject, and contains specific treatment of the role of women in early church leadership
* The First Advance: $17.95: a brief introduction to the first 500 years of Christianity, useful for a non-technical overview
* The Lord’s Prayer through North African Eyes: A Window Into Early Christianity: using the 'Lord's Prayer' as an exegetical text, this 2004 work shows how Christians in different parts of the empire interpreted Biblical text differently
* The Making of the Modern Church: $19.95: history of the 20th century church from its influential 19th century origins, including useful historical details of the changing role of women
* The Origins of Christendom in the West: $90.00: covers the first four centuries of Christianity, and its interaction with the empire and its culture
* Creation through Wisdom: Theology and the New Biology: $72.00: an examination of the relationship of science and the Bible, though from a 'wisdom Christology' perspective and with a feminist slant; probably best read with a critical eye
* God’s Book of Works: The Nature and Theology of Nature: $72.00: another work focusing on the relationship between Christianity and science; the author's position is 'Where science and faith meet, they must be congruent; if they are not, both the science and the religion ought to be examined. Religion cannot drive the content of science, nor can science properly determine the nature of religion'
* Kregel Apologetics Collection (7 Vols.): $49.95: nothing to do with the exercises (this is 'Kregel', not 'Kegel'), there are seven volumes of apologetic material here, and the fact that the usual price is $49.95 shows you that it isn't of cutting edge quality, but it covers a range of topical issues, and is probably a good starting point for most people
* The Nature and Limits of Human Understanding: $72.00: apparently 'an exploration of human understanding, from the perspectives of psychology, philosophy, biology and theology', written by six contributors who are 'among the most internationally eminent in their fields'; an epistemological work, and although the blurb says 'Though scholarly, the writing is non-technical', it's clearly not for everyone
* Ugaritic Library (12 Vols.): $499.95: a huge collection scholarly works on Ugarit, including tools for studying Ugarit along with transcriptions, transliterations, translations, and scholarly commentary on their significance to our understanding of Hebrew and the Bible
* Linguistic Analysis of Biblical Hebrew: $24.95: incredibly important to anyone who wants to actually understand the language, instead of guessing wildly; I'm not actually remotely interested in learning Hebrew, but this work is very useful for testing and debunking inaccurate claims by those who fondly imagine they have done so
* Liddell and Scott Greek–English Lexicon: $135.00: solid gold, the classic Greek lexicon, the 9th edition with the 1996 supplement* Understanding BHS: $11.95: a very cheap and small guide to understanding the Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia (BHS), the critical Hebrew text on which virtually all standard modern Old Testament translations are based; only really useful for those who regularly use a Hebrew interlinear, or the BHS text itself, it's not Metzger for BHS* Women in the Bible: $18.95: standard egalitarian commentary, though a little softer than most, not a scholarly work, not intellectually robust (there are much better egalitarian commentaries on the subject), but cited frequently nonetheless; first published in 1984 this is an unrevised 2006 reprint* Ethical Dilemmas in Church Leadership: $11.99: slim volume intended to help church leaders support congregational members with issues such as AIDS, teen pregnancies, various forms of abuse, sexual identity confusion, and so on
* Biblical Foundations for Manhood and Womanhood: $15.99: I'll simply quote from the blurb, 'Wayne Grudem assembled a team of distinguished writers to show how egalitarian views destroy God's ideal for your relationships, marriage, and life purposes'; read at your own risk (Grudem is very good when it comes to lexical, historical, and textual analysis, but his personal agenda is very conservative and he has an odd political bent as well, so take that into account)
* Pastoral Leadership for Manhood and Womanhood: $15.99: Great Grudem! Say no more, you know what you'll find here
* Baker Encyclopedia of Psychology and Counseling, 2nd ed.: $59.99: psychology and counselling from a Christian perspective, could be useful to someone; published in 1999 but probably still current for the field, the contributors are professional psychologists so it shouldn't have anything weird in it
Other notables, which are exactly what they say on the lid:
* Josephus in Greek
* Apostolic Fathers Reverse Interlinear
* Aramaic Papyri of the Fifth Century BC
* Old Testament Greek Pseudepigrapha with Morphology
* Apocryphal New Testament
* Brenton Septuagint
* New Testament Apocrypha
* Septuagint Variants with Logos Morphology Reverse Interlinear
* Swete Septuagint
* Idioms of the Greek New Testament, 2nd ed.Yes, Portfolio is more than double the price of Scholar's Library Gold. However, it has so much additional scholarly content that it works out to be far more economical. When you purchase Portfolio, you are purchasing additional works to a value which far exceeds the price difference between the two packages.
There's the 12 volume Hermeneutics Collection, $649 if purchased separately,and the 10 volume Gnostic and Apocryphal Studies Collection, another $649 if purchased separately. There's the 10 volume Church Origins collection, another $179, the entire UBS Handbook series worth $800, TDNT worth $200, HALOT worth $159, LSJ worth $135, JPS Tanakh Commentary Collection worth $379, and the New International Greek Testament Commentary worth $533. That's $3,683 worth of scholarly material alone. An upgrade from Gold is a ridiculously small sum of money to pay for what you get.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Hey, what's your problem, man? No review for Platinum, that's just unacceptable...hehehe...it's ok, I own it and I know it's great, so no worries if you didn't include it. [:P]
0 -
Yeah, no review for Platinum since I didn't buy it. But I should probably complete the set. [:)]
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Hmmm, you might rabbit, you might...hehehe...[:D]
0 -
Nice review Jonathan, thanks. Gives me a better appreciation for what I have. I have Platinum plus a whole lot of other stuff.
Mission: To serve God as He desires.
0 -
Thank you very much Jonathan!
I found your reviews very interesting! They helped me discover and re-discover resourecs that I own (I have Platinum).
Thanks for sharing!
Pastor in Stockholm, Church of Sweden
0 -
Lynden and Andreas, you're welcome. As a review it's more of an overview, and it is biased towards scholarly use of Logos, but I'm glad others found it helpful. I especially wanted to highlight some of the works in these packages which are of particular interest and use to the scholarly researcher.
I originally wrote it for friends looking to decide which package to choose, and to demonstrate the massive value of upgrading to the higher end products. When you take into account the discount you receive when upgrading, it's really worth thinking about.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Jonathan,
This is an excellent summary - really very useful. It would be useful to have it somewhere more permanent and more easily editable than the forum. Do you have a personal website? It's useful enough to go on the wiki, but I'm not sure whether that's the right place for an opinion piece.
Could I encourage you to add something about Platinum? The extra NT commentaries, particularly Pillar, BECNT and NIGTC , are really useful for academic work if you're doing NT exegesis.
If you're willing/interested in editing for more permanent use, I also wasn't 100% clear what your scores were out of (I thought it was five until I got to Portfolio!). Perhaps that could be clearer. And one minor clarification, it's "Ancient Near Eastern Texts relating to the Old Testament" (which, incidentally, is available in Logos).
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Thanks Mark, I knew I needed to correct a few errors like spacing, duplicated wording, and the title of Pritchard's work, but unfortunately I found I couldn't edit the posts after a certain amount of time. I would be delighted to put it somewhere more permanent and editable, as I would like to add to this later.
I should point out that my original scoring system was out of 5, because I wrote the first reviews (up to Gold), before Portfolio was released. However, Portfolio was a game changer! I would still keep the original scores, and make 7 the top score (not even Portfolio is perfect), as I scored Portfolio on the same scale as the others.
I would also like to review Platinum in the same way. I have reviewed a number of the other commentaries (such as BECNT and NGTC), and a large number of additional works, which are either found in Platinum or Portfolio or which have been published this year.I follow the pre-pubs very closely, write up basic reviews of new works which I consider useful to academic study, and send them to friends who like to be informed about the latest which Logos has to offer. They sometimes provide feedback, and ask for guidance on whether or not a resource will be useful to them.
I could probably find some webspace somewhere to host this.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
If you add up the prices of what Logos charges individually for everything in Portfolio, how much would that cost?
0 -
A guesstimate based on my previous calculations would be well over $6,000.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Jonathan,Jonathan Burke said:I could probably find some webspace somewhere to host this.
I hope I'm not being too forward. My website already has many articles related to L4, as does Mark's. I would suspect he would be willing to host the article(s) as I would if you don't want the hassle of finding a spot.
If you're interested just email me at tcblack at stilltruth dot com.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thomas, you're not being forward at all. In fact I wanted to ask you or Mark would like to host these reviews, but didn't want to take a liberty. I would be delighted if either (or even both), of you could do this for me. Thanks.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Jeremy said:
If you add up the prices of what Logos charges individually for everything in Portfolio, how much would that cost?
I'm very intrigued by this question.
I will begin doing that on my little breaks today and get back with a total. I will try to calculate both individual titles (higher cost) and by collections. Some titles, like Harry Ironside's commentaries, are available in collections but are not complete in Portfolio so I will count them individually in both calculations. Finally there will be some titles that are probably not available outside of Portfolio. I will group them at the end of the list as "added-value" but zero cost.
Could be Logos has this data at the click of a mouse and will post it before I get done. It still sounds fun to do it (and a little vain on my part.[6] )
I did add up the "current Logos sales price" (not the "suggested retail") for everything I have in my library. I had a warm fuzzy feeling to see the sum because I have enjoyed tremendous savings through the generosity of Logos and the diligent work of my salesman Dave Kaplan.
Logos 7 Collectors Edition
0 -
Jonathan Burke said:
Thomas, you're not being forward at all. In fact I wanted to ask you or Mark would like to host these reviews, but didn't want to take a liberty. I would be delighted if either (or even both), of you could do this for me. Thanks.
I feel like I'm way out on the outside edge of the Forum Guidelines but It is at least on topic. [:)]
Here you go: Comparing the Logos Packages | Truth is Still Truth
Jonathan, if you want to make any corrections, editions etc. Just let me know by the email address above and we can fix it.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you. 0 -
Thanks very much Thomas, that's excellent. I have a number of changes to make, and will get them to you over the next couple of days, God willing.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Jonathan Burke said:
Thomas, you're not being forward at all. In fact I wanted to ask you or Mark would like to host these reviews, but didn't want to take a liberty
I'm glad Thomas is taking these up. I'd have been happy too if he wasn't able, but his site is much more Logos focussed than mine, and has a much stronger pedigree, so they'll be better off there I'm sure.
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Jeremy said:
If you add up the prices of what Logos charges individually for everything in Portfolio, how much would that cost?
I just realised Portfolio also has this, which is $1,500 on its own. The amount of value for money in Portfolio is simply staggering.
Win 7 x64 | Core i7 3770K | 32GB RAM | GTX 750 Ti 2GB | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (system) | Crucial m4 256GB SSD (Logos) | WD Black 1.5 TB (storage) | WD Red 3 TB x 3 (storage) | HP w2408h 24" | First F301GD Live 30"
0 -
Matthew C Jones said:Jeremy said:
If you add up the prices of what Logos charges individually for everything in Portfolio, how much would that cost?
I'm very intrigued by this question.
I will begin doing that on my little breaks today and get back with a total. I will try to calculate both individual titles (higher cost) and by collections. Some titles, like Harry Ironside's commentaries, are available in collections but are not complete in Portfolio so I will count them individually in both calculations. Finally there will be some titles that are probably not available outside of Portfolio. I will group them at the end of the list as "added-value" but zero cost.
Could be Logos has this data at the click of a mouse and will post it before I get done. It still sounds fun to do it (and a little vain on my part.
)I did add up the "current Logos sales price" (not the "suggested retail") for everything I have in my library. I had a warm fuzzy feeling to see the sum because I have enjoyed tremendous savings through the generosity of Logos and the diligent work of my salesman Dave Kaplan.
It looks like we are at $7500 and I don't know if the other estimate included books that only come in collections and aren't sold individually.
0 -
I've started a thread on another forum about some of these: Are commentaries from 1953-1988 that are traditional, bad? Exposition, devotional
I would like to hear opinions about these particular commentary volumes (I specify them in the above link), plus on the books Primitive Christianity and Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, rev. ed. (the regular price of the latter has dropped a little since Jonathan's post)! I've collected some opinions and information about Baker's New Testament Commentary (HK) (12 Vols.) in: How good is Kistemaker on 2 Cor 1-9 in Baker NT Commentary (1997)? There is also a question in a recent thread: How does Hendriksen view group mentality in Baker NTC?:Jonathan Burke said:* Baker New Testament Commentary (12 Vols.): $159.95, contains some extremely useful exposition
* Believer’s Church Bible Commentary (19 Vols.): $349.95, only an average commentary, but still useful [...]
* Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, rev. ed.: $150.00* Primitive Christianity: A Survey of Recent Studies and Some New Proposals: $60.00: essential reading on the earliest Christian communities, this slender but densely packed volume covers 25 years of scholarship up to 2003, presenting the latest academic views and provding some very balanced commentary, especially on the role of women.
A comment on that one, I find the volume 65 to be the most interesting one so that's the only volume I have:
Jonathan Burke said:* Scholar's Library Gold: $1,379.95 * Semeia: An Experimental Journal for Biblical Criticism (91 Volumes): $50 A modern academic journal with a different emphasis to most, and may seem a little offbeat at first. But I can tell you from experience there's some quality scholarship here. I found this particularly useful when I challenged by an atheist 'If the health and hygiene rules in the Law of Moses are so great, why did the Christians abandon them?', a question I had puzzled over myself.
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
Unix said:
Oxford Dictionary of the Christian Church, rev. ed
ODCC is a standard shorter dictionary of Church History. Of course no summary can replace knowledge of the originals, but the articles in this work are quite useful for summarizing the predominant views on many major topics.
SDG
Ken McGuireThe Gospel is not ... a "new law," on the contrary, ... a "new life." - William Julius Mann
L8 Anglican, Lutheran and Orthodox Silver, Reformed Starter, Academic Essentials
L7 Lutheran Gold, Anglican Bronze
0 -
119.99$ - which while not quite 1500$, is still a good deal.Jonathan Burke said:L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
abondservant said:
119.99$ - which while not quite 1500$, is still a good deal.
But $1,500 in print: http://www.gorgiaspress.com/bookshop/pc-248-62-the-texts-of-the-ugaritic-data-bankbrvol-1vol-4-by-j-l-cunchillos.aspx
This is my personal Faithlife account. On 1 March 2022, I started working for Faithlife, and have a new 'official' user account. Posts on this account shouldn't be taken as official Faithlife views!
0 -
Bump! I really want opinions on these!:
Please see the above links first!Unix said:I've started a thread on another forum about some of these: Are commentaries from 1953-1988 that are traditional, bad? Exposition, devotional
I would like to hear opinions about these particular commentary volumes (I specify them in the above link), [...] I've collected some opinions and information about Baker's New Testament Commentary (HK) (12 Vols.) in: How good is Kistemaker on 2 Cor 1-9 in Baker NT Commentary (1997)? There is also a question in a recent thread: How does Hendriksen view group mentality in Baker NTC?:Jonathan Burke said:* Baker New Testament Commentary (12 Vols.): $159.95, contains some extremely useful exposition
* Believer’s Church Bible Commentary (19 Vols.): $349.95, only an average commentary, but still useful
There's also this thread: Would You recommend me this commentary set w/ a (Dutch) Reformed view? (
1 2). Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
Please try to advice me if You are familiar with the commentary volumes I'm talking about!
I'm trying to help myself out a little bit. I just read: That reaction gives a bit... - posted on 15th October 2013. Citing a part of the post...:
"Reformed and Lutheran are the major traditions going back to the Reformation. As such they share a general approach. They're also, in my view, the most coherent theologies in the Protestant church. Lutherans and Reformed had to create a whole theology at once, because they were trying to do a major rethinking of all of theology in splitting off from the Catholics. Other churches started because of various concerns or insights, but don't necessarily have this complete theological vision. Even in their more liberal forms (which I'm part of) I find the Reformed and Lutheran churches more theological somehow than other Protestant churches.
Between the two, in my view the Reformed tradition tends to be more logical, and the Lutheran tends to maintain a bit more paradox. That's not necessarily good or bad. After all, humans don't fully understand God. So sometimes a view that's too logical can oversimplify the truth."
... Do You think the Baker's New Testament Commentary (HK) has too much logic? (No, I'm not looking for a Lutheran alternative.)I really want opinions on these commentaries! I.e. some of the Baker's HK New Testament volumes, and Believer's Church Bible Commentary: Ecclesiastes. I would quickly need an opinion on the latter (within 1½ days), and on the Baker's volumes within a week later.
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
bump! What should I do about the commentaries in the post?: Are commentaries from 1953-1988 that are traditional, bad? Exposition, devotional
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120 -
Unix I think you need to type out your questions in a new post.
Not simply hyper links to other threads at other sites. Certainly not links to accordance...L2 lvl4 (...) WORDsearch, all the way through L10,
0 -
I need an answer today before the close of Logos office hours on all except Oxford and Baker's, there is no time for a new thread - I don't want too late answers either. It would be tiresome for people who search the internet for information about these commentaries, to wade through several threads which would be exactly the same. Baker's (HK) is more expensive in Accordance (comparing Logos and Accordance regular price), so I doubt anyone goes there and buys it because I mentioned it here.
This thread was definitely the most relevant for my questions since Jonathan reviewed several of the commentaries/books I'm thinking about.
I do have a several commentaries on Ecclesiastes, but one is old and very brief, and other ones are technical from the '00s. I did not buy them individually.
A friend of mine who lives in the archipelago has given arguments for his view, from Ecclesiastes.Regarding Baker's I'd be glad if someone with experience from it offers views or summaries of what it's like! I want to know at latest on Wednesday Oct 23.
Disclosure!
trulyergonomic.com
48G AMD octacore V9.2 Acc 120
