Plymouth Brethren Resources

I was clicking on resources by denomination, and noticed that the PB page doesn't have any works by J.N. Darby, even though his synopsis is available in Logos. There are quite a few William Kelly books not showing as well, and I don't know what else (not being PB, I'm only aware of the principal figures).

If a PB comes onto the Logos page, they might decide that since there aren't many PB books, that this isn't for them, so I hope Logos is able to better represent its offerings to potential buyers.

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Daniel Liu

Check this one:

https://www.logos.com/product/16522/the-collected-writings-of-john-nelson-darby

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548122#Comment_548122

I think you misunderstand. Dean knows what's available. The problem is that it isn't tagged for denomination, so a new user filtering a search by that won't find much, even when Logos actually has the books.

elnwood

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548211#Comment_548211

Logos has known for a long time that the denominational tags are incomplete. I mean, they still have Anglican, Episcopalian, and Anglican / Episcopalian as three different categories. I'm guessing that tagging all the resources by denomination would take a long time, and people would still dispute what resources should fall under what denomination. Maybe Logos has decided that it's just not worth their while to fix it.

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548276#Comment_548276

Logos has known for a long time that the denominational tags are incomplete. I mean, they still have Anglican, Episcopalian, and Anglican / Episcopalian as three different categories. I'm guessing that tagging all the resources by denomination would take a long time, and people would still dispute what resources should fall under what denomination. Maybe Logos has decided that it's just not worth their while to fix it.

No, au contraire. Logos hired a bunch of denominational product managers (see the respective subforums). If I understand correct, one of the job tasks of these managers is to get the denominational tags for their group in order, and some have done so. From forum discussions it seems that Logos wants to enhance this tagging.

Unfortunately, those denominations without a specially assigned product manager are not better off now than before (Brethren probably fall into this category). But maybe a suggestion in the website forum would help, if it's not a too big issue.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548298#Comment_548298

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination would have sent the Brethren founders into convulsions, but tagged they must be!

Bruce Dunning

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548307#Comment_548307

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination would have sent the Brethren founders into convulsions, but tagged they must be!

How true!

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548307#Comment_548307

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination would have sent the Brethren founders into convulsions,

Same thing with the Independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ. Many Pentecostal churches would also object. Maybe that explains why Logos has not assigned more product managers. (Baptist, cough, cough)

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548321#Comment_548321

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination would have sent the Brethren founders into convulsions,

Same thing with the Independent Christian Churches and Churches of Christ. Many Pentecostal churches would also object. Maybe that explains why Logos has not assigned more product managers. (Baptist, cough, cough)

There are quite a few baptist denominations floating around out there... I imagine its hard to find someone who knows not only the ultra conservative wing, the non-conservative side, and everyone else in the middle.

Perhaps starting with the mainline baptists, and working your way out from there might be a good idea

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548366#Comment_548366

Perhaps starting with the mainline baptists

There is quite a bit of variety even among "mainline baptists", especially if you are including SBC churches in this category. [8-|]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548396#Comment_548396

Perhaps starting with the mainline baptists

There is quite a bit of variety even among "mainline baptists", especially if you are including SBC churches in this category.

Indeed. I once attended a SBC that on my first visit proudly claimed they were the only SBC not in error since they still held to the 1970s edition BF&M.

Seems to me that was BEFORE the conservative resurgence, and thus makes them in error from my point of view. I was just happy they tell people that up front

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548366#Comment_548366

I imagine its hard to find someone who knows not only the ultra conservative wing, the non-conservative side, and everyone else in the middle.

Most anyone with a Masters in Theology would qualify, shouldn't they?

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548427#Comment_548427

I imagine its hard to find someone who knows not only the ultra conservative wing, the non-conservative side, and everyone else in the middle.

Most anyone with a Masters in Theology would qualify, shouldn't they?

Nope. One of my roommates (who is himself an author, and published in Logos) was writing his dissertation for his PhD in Theology, and he hadn't heard of a number of the CP commentary sets and so forth that have been released into Logos recently. I'm thinking specifically of the thread on here that talks about Edwards favorite Commentary (which is not yet released) and also Poor Man's commentary.

I guess my point is he is no slouch, and he hasn't heard of more than a few of the principal figures of years past. He's current on principal authors of today however. Beyond principal figures though, there are a lot of other minor figures within each of the over 300 baptist denominations in the world. I shudder to think of trying to name them all, much less all of the primary and secondary figures within each.

I suppose it depends on the level of specificity logos is aiming for.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548307#Comment_548307

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination

The very thought of thinking one's church is "non-denominational" amuses me ... with a slight provision being made for those that insist they are catholic with a small c ... on linguistic grounds not theological ones.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548474#Comment_548474

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination

The very thought of thinking one's church is "non-denominational" amuses me ... with a slight provision being made for those that insist they are catholic with a small c ... on linguistic grounds not theological ones.

Would a church that is run by a lone ranger charismatic (small 'c') founder who goes his own way and makes up his own doctrines and calls everyone else heretics be a denomination unto itself? Or would it just be a bunch of people hoodwinked by a kook? [;)] Granted, I know that's how some denominations start. But don't they kind of have to become a group larger than just one household of believers to be a denomination? (Which I agree they would be even if they repudiate the label "denomination"?) For example, is Westboro Baptist Church a denomination all by its lonesome? Most Baptists (even IFBs, if that's what WBC considers themselves to be), would disown those guys. I've always thought that being a "denomination" presupposes collegiality among confreres.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548480#Comment_548480

Would a church that is run by a lone ranger charismatic (small 'c') founder who goes his own way and makes up his own doctrines and calls everyone else heretics be a denomination unto itself?

Isn't that a description of the earliest days of most denominations/religions?[;)] It's only after the fact we discover a cult becomes mainstream or dies.

Basically in common parlance when we ask what denomination a person/assembly is, we are asking about beliefs rather than church structure. But, yes, in a theological environment when one asks if someone/something belongs to a denomination we are asking about church structure ... or collegiality to use your terms.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548487#Comment_548487

Would a church that is run by a lone ranger charismatic (small 'c') founder who goes his own way and makes up his own doctrines and calls everyone else heretics be a denomination unto itself?

Isn't that a description of the earliest days of most denominations/religions? It's only after the fact we discover a cult becomes mainstream or dies.

Basically in common parlance when we ask what denomination a person/assembly is, we are asking about beliefs rather than church structure.

Yes, I know. [:)]

I just meant that until we know that said church becomes mainstream, we don't really call it a denomination. Doesn't have to do with its church structure per se, but its beliefs. Many of the ones which call themselves "non-denominational" did so from the very beginning when they were just one lone group of believers. And we wouldn't have called such a break-away group a denomination just yet. Only once there are enough of them to identify a commonality of beliefs across individual church bodies here and there would it be a denomination. So I was basically just picking a nit with your one statement "The very thought of thinking one's church is 'non-denominational' amuses me" whereas we really are fully in agreement on this topic (it amuses me too). The thing is, most of these churches that think of themselves as "non-denominational" really were so at one time when they first got started under a single leader with just a group of followers in one location. It's just that they didn't recognize the transition to becoming a denomination once they had other like-minded churches along with them.

I remember visiting a friends' church once which prided itself in being "non-denominational" and they had a quote on the front of their church bulletin, "No creed but Christ." I was amused at that. Sure, maybe they didn't want to sign on to any of the historical Christian creeds, because they felt that all of those were man-made extra-biblical statements. But the very fact that they felt that way was part of their own "creed" so, despite themselves, they did have a creed other than simply "Christ." [:)]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548480#Comment_548480

Most Baptists (even IFBs, if that's what WBC considers themselves to be), would disown those guys.

IFBs can not disown what they never laid claim to. They take that "Independent": part very seriously. Same goes with the Independent Christian Churches.

I still think an SBC or regular Baptist with a degree from a reputable seminary could serve all Baptists fairly well as a product manager.

Jack Caviness

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548522#Comment_548522

from a reputable seminary

Now, tha tis a loaded term. Having served as pastor of both SBC and IFB churches, I can confidently say that one church's reputable is another's heretic [:D]

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548584#Comment_548584

, I can confidently say that one church's reputable is another's heretic

I agree. But the public does not need to know what the product manager believes. (Do we really know for sure the doctrinal beliefs of the current product managers?)

If I gave it a little effort I believe I could identify Freewill Baptist resources, Methodist resources, and Church of Christ resources. I could do this while being an IFB. If Logos did not advertise my particulars I doubt they would get many complaints.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548736#Comment_548736

I am attending a reputable (and if you are southern baptist, an acclaimed) Seminary.

Now if only they would let me live AND work in NC/FL.

Dean J

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/548307#Comment_548307

It does amuse me that the very thought of being thought of as a denomination would have sent the Brethren founders into convulsions, but tagged they must be!

That one made me chuckle, having known lots of good Brethren during the years.

Sir Robert Anderson comes to mind as another PB writer that isn't tagged.

Richard Lyall

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549049#Comment_549049

The Brethren resources are known only to the Brethren (i.e. the elect). (speaking as a former PB I should say

Mark O'Hearn

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549891#Comment_549891

With respect to the original post, being associated with a Gospel Hall and one of these "brethren" (we prefer small "b" please), I had thought Darby's materials had been tagged with other PB material. Perhaps I am mistaken or perhaps this has been changed since I last searched?

Though I enjoy many Biblical translations nowadays, I still find Darby's translation insightful at times. Another author often associated with the PB (though he was Baptist) is H.A. Ironside who had a wonderful, simple way of expressing his theological thoughts. In some respects he reminds me of C.S. Lewis. C.I. Scofield, another PB author, wrote a gem entitled, "The Loveliness of Christ" that I have always enjoyed reading and re-reading. Small group of Christians with a surprisingly rich history of Christian literature.

Best regards.

Geo Philips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549891#Comment_549891

Lol. Thats funny. I come from a Kerala brethren background (which is an independent Indian offshoot of the Plymouth).

The Brethren resources are known only to the Brethren (i.e. the elect). (speaking as a former PB I should say

Geo Philips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550844#Comment_550844

Though there arent as many good resources coming out officially out of a PB background today, there are many authors who still associate with PB or PB-derived churches. Alexander Strauch is a famous one that comes to my mind. Really sharp and funny guy!

With respect to the original post, being associated with a Gospel Hall and one of these "brethren" (we prefer small "b" please), I had thought Darby's materials had been tagged with other PB material. Perhaps I am mistaken or perhaps this has been changed since I last searched? Though I enjoy many Biblical translations nowadays, I still find Darby's translation insightful at times. Another author often associated with the PB (though he was Baptist) is H.A. Ironside who had a wonderful, simple way of expressing his theological thoughts. In some respects he reminds me of C.S. Lewis. C.I. Scofield, another PB author, wrote a gem entitled, "The Loveliness of Christ" that I have always enjoyed reading and re-reading. Small group of Christians with a surprisingly rich history of Christian literature. Best regards.

Mark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/550844#Comment_550844

Another author often associated with the PB (though he was Baptist) is H.A. Ironside

Just a casual search of the internet will clearly show that Ironside was not in baptist circles, but in the circles of the so called plymouth brethren.

There are authors associated with the brethren movement that are in Logos:

Darby

FF Bruce

Ironside

CH Mackintosh

CI Scofield

Alexander Strauch

William Kelly

Wolston, WTP

George Muller

William MacDonald

Samuel Rideout

William Newell

Adolph Safir

Robert Anderson

FW Grant

Various authors of the Day by Day series

Walter Scott

Emmaus Journal

EW Bullinger

Hamilton Smith

FG Patterson

HL Rossier

Andrew Jukes

CA Coats

To name a few.