Note to Andrew and Louis and Advise from Verbum Users

First, a note to Andrew and Louis: Thank you for bringing Verbum to life at Logos and for completing that Practicum project! As I explain below it was a huge help and I really believe it can have a huge impact on our Catholic culture! At the end of the day we’re here to impact others for Christ and I believe you have done that!

Question for Andrew, Louis and other Verbum users: I’ve been a convert for about 25 years and currently lead a Catholic men’s study/share group at our parish and has studied the bible fairly consistently throughout my life. I only tell you that to set up my question. When I became a Catholic I became aware that I should study scripture through the eyes of tradition but have never had the resources or knowhow to accomplish that. I started with the scripture study version of Logos in early 2012, but now that I’ve updated to Verbum and watched the Practicum video series. I finally feel like I have a much better understanding what it means to study scripture within tradition and that I have the resources to start!

Now that this gateway has been opened up to me I’m looking through the resources (Master Package) and saying. Oh my! These resources can be overwhelming when you don’t have formal training in them. My question is how do I approach this this powerful tool to maximize its value to my walk with Christ and in any ministry God may give me? As a lay person I need help understanding these resources and how to best approach my daily study time (30 to 60 minutes per day). I’m willing to dedicate some extra study time to better understand how to best utilize Verbum but I need your advice on approach. I’ve enjoyed starting with the lectionary readings and appreciated the advice in Practicum of using the Catechism as a gateway into the other resources, but I still feel I need to get to know these other resources to know how to prioritize them for what fits best. Spending time in one resource means not spending time in another. How do I best do that? Are there other things I need to do as well?

I think I got a great jumpstart through the collections Andrew and Louis created in Practicum, but even they said, it is only the beginning. Are there resources to help in this process?

I thank everyone in advance for your advice!

God’s Blessings,

Scott

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Hapax Legomena

Scott:

Logos/Verbum can be overwhelming with its vast resources. I would suggest you find a few simple, trusted resources and, initially, start there. I start with the Collegeville Bible Commentary and with the Catechism. If I'm interested, then I start to dig into more commentaries (I'm liking the Navarre Bible Commentary).

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549104#Comment_549104

Collegeville Bible Commentary

Liturgical Press Reference Collection (7 vols.)

The Ignatius Bible: Revised Standard Version, SecondCatholic Edition

A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture

Are all good choices, the last one listed is older but still well worth a look for anyone.

-Dan

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549152#Comment_549152

Regarding commentaries, there is a thread that I'm maintaining where (as You can see from the title of the thread) I give just the kind of advice that fits a question like this. Now that I've finished college I have a few weeks on me to read some of the 29 commentary volumes I've added (some of them as printed matter) since Sep. 21. and review them there. The thread is: Practical Commentary on Scripture.
New posts from others than myself are welcome!

I can't give any guarantees that I'll review base-package commentaries. One exception comes to mind: The United Bible Societies' New Testament Handbook Series (20 vols.) is included on the L5 Master base-package level, and I have it in Accordance (I bought the NT set used. I bought the rest of my resources at an Accordance training seminar in Gothenburg, Sweden in April 2013), + the Upgrade (6 vols.) in Logos.

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549152#Comment_549152

Thank you both for your suggestions. I will certainly check them out. A couple of those I was looking at anyway and is a good confirmation. Thanks!

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549161#Comment_549161

Unix, Thank you. I have enjoyed the handbooks as well.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549162#Comment_549162

Unfortunately, Logos doesn't quite have the resources necessary to follow my advice to converts or those just beginning scripture study:

Spend a week on the Sunday lectionary readings
Spend one day reading with dictionaries, atlases, and commentaries
Spend one day reading their broader Biblical context
Spend one day reading them in the context of patristic readings - a number of resources suggest appropriate readings
Spend one day reading them in the context of the Catechism - again there are some resources to suggest the links
Spend one day reading them in the context of sermons/sermon helps/devotionals
Spend one day reading them in the context of prayer and art
Spend Sunday reading them in the context of how in the world did the pastor see that in the readings?

This prepares you well for teaching or discussing as you have an overview for everyones' potential interest.

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549182#Comment_549182

Wow, very detailed. A terrific road map! Thank you.

I'm curious about what resources would be helpful in this situation that Verbum doesn't have?

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549182#Comment_549182

I thought I would offer you a brief look into the 3 I had mentioned and add in Navarre Bible for Good measure.

7:13–27 Decision for or against God (see Luke 13:24; 6:43–44; 13:25–27; 6:47–49). The Sermon concludes with a series of contrasts regarding the decision for or against God. The image of the two ways in verses 13–14 (see Luke 13:24) is common in the Old Testament and was developed in the Dead Sea scrolls and in the early Christian writing called the Didache. The idea that the gate is narrow and the way is constricted is noteworthy in Matthew. The false prophets of verses 15–20 (see Luke 6:43–44) are to be judged in accordance with Deut 13:1–5 and 18:20–22. Does the prophet’s word come true? Does the prophet lead the people astray? The results (or fruits) show the prophet’s character (the tree).
The sayings in verses 21–23 (see Luke 13:25–27) also focus on the relationship between word and action: It is not enough merely to say “Lord, Lord,” for only doing God’s will gives entry to his kingdom. The firm foundation mentioned in verses 24–27 (see Luke 6:47–49) includes both word and deed. --Dianne Bergant and Robert J. Karris, The Collegeville Bible Commentary: Based on the New American Bible with Revised New Testament (Collegeville, MN: Liturgical Press, 1989), 873.

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§ 688a 13–27 Call to Action—The Christian must not follow the majority, 13–14, nor run after every specious teacher, 15–20, nor be content with mere professions of loyalty or even with the grace of miracle-working, 21–23. He must do the will of the Father as declared by the Son, otherwise his efforts are wasted, 24–27. 13–14. (Lk 13:23 f.). Our Lord does not minimize the difficulty of the Christian way of life, but laments the fewness of those who in fact follow it. He uses images familiar to Jewish teachers (SB 1, 461 ff.). The ‘city-gate’ (πύλη), or possibly ‘defile’ (Joüon), through which we enter upon the way is as narrow as the path is narrow (‘strait’) to which it leads. That there are few who walk this way is a fact of experience. It does not follow that only these reach the goal—who can calculate the mercy of God? Our Lord does not intend to define the number of the ‘elect’—a question which he refuses to answer in Lk 13:23 f. It is the practical solution that counts: Strive to enter by the narrow door, Lk 13:24. The answer to the theoretical question is not useful to man; God reserves the knowledge to himself, ST 1, 23, 7 corp. § b We know that ‘God wishes all men to be saved’, 1 Tim 2:4, and this is solid foundation for our hope. 15–20. Beware of false guides! cf. Lk 6:43–44. Again there is no close connexion with what precedes, but the passage has been drawn into this place by the idea of finding the right way, 14. Our Lord here deals not with the personal morals of those who falsely claim to bear a message from God (false ‘prophets’), but with the damaging effects of their teaching. Doubtless he has the Pharisees in mind, but he is providing for the more distant future, too. These false teachers will bear the appearance of belonging to the flock of Christ, hence the danger. Heresies live on their modicum of truth. But underneath that skin, error devours the duped victim. Yet how recognize the false teacher? A little patience and the effect of their work (‘fruit’, by an abrupt change of metaphor) will betray them. That grapes and figs do not appear on thorns and thistles is a commonplace of experience. And so indeed it is with any tree (DV ‘even so, every’). It does not, 17, nay cannot, 18, produce fruit alien to its nature. The rotten tree (σαπρός, decayed, or corrupt in the moral sense cf. Eph 4:22) will bring forth ‘evil’ (πονηρός, wicked) fruit. The adjectives, which are susceptible of a moral interpretation, have been chosen with a view to the application of the comparison. 19. Parenthetically Mt prophesies the punishment of these false teachers (or possibly the certain elimination of their teaching) in the words of the Baptist, 3:10; cf. Lk 3:9. § c 20. The passage closes as it began (cf. 16a), summing-up what has been said (‘inclusion’). 21–23. Lip-service etc. insufficient; Lk 6:46; 13:26 f. Our Lord is passing to his concluding appeal for serious action. He has just spoken, 15–20, of false teachers; he speaks now of the danger of self-deception—the danger of presuming upon the privilege of belonging officially to the fellowship of Jesus. 21. (Lk 6:46). The gates of heaven do not open to the urgent cry: Lord, Lord! (cf. 25:11 note) but to those who do the will (good pleasure) of God. Jesus, with quiet assurance, uses the phrase ‘my Father’, as again in 26:39, 42. He teaches the disciples to say ‘our Father’, 6:9, but studiously avoids the phrase himself—his sonship is not of the common sort. 22–23. (Lk 13:25, 27). Not even preaching on the authority of Jesus (DV ‘prophesied in thy name’) nor exorcism nor miracles worked through that same authority will, in themselves, qualify preacher or wonder-worker for entrance when he comes to stand at heaven’s gate. Unless such a one has also ‘done the will of the Father’, our Lord will openly declare that even while working these prodigies the man was never truly of his company, Jesus himself significantly assumes the power of expulsion from the kingdom of those who, ignoring the will of the Father, have worked nothing but iniquity (ἀνομία, cf. Ps 6:9). § d 24–27. Concluding Appeal (Lk 6:47–49). Two parables in elaborate antithesis. The man who hears and acts upon our Lord’s teaching has a firm dwelling. The torrential winter rains, the streams in flood, high winds (like those that brought houses down in Jericho in 1912, Lagrange) will not disturb it. Not so the man who builds on thin, crumbling earth (ἄμμος). --A. Jones, “The Gospel of Jesus Christ According to St Matthew,” in A Catholic Commentary on Holy Scripture (ed. Bernard Orchard and Edmund F. Sutcliffe; Toronto;New York;Edinburgh: Thomas Nelson, 1953), 865.

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7:22 On that day: The Day of Judgment. Jesus is portrayed as the divine Judge (cf. 25:31–46; Jn 5:25–29; 2 Cor 5:10; CCC 678, 682). ● God’s sanctifying grace enlivens the soul, making it fit for heaven; it is the grace of divine Sonship. It is manifested through conformity with the Father’s will by knowing and obeying Jesus (7:23; cf. Jn 17:3; 1 Jn 2:3–6). In Catholic tradition, sanctifying grace is distinct from graces that are manifest through miraculous works such as prophecy and exorcism. These charismatic graces are also heavenly gifts but are not conclusive evidence of one’s personal sanctity or membership in the family of God (CCC 2003).
7:24 like a wise man: True wisdom puts Jesus’ teaching into practice and prepares for the future (cf. 25:1–13; Jas 2:14–26). his house: The parable reflects building conditions in NT Palestine. Houses made of mud brick were generally built during the dry season. When torrential rains arrived, only the house with a solid foundation resisted erosion and ultimate destruction (cf. Prov 14:11). ● Jesus’ reference to the wise man and his house alludes to King Solomon. He was known for his wisdom (1 Kings 3:10–12) and built the Lord’s house (i.e., Temple; 1 Kings 8:27) upon a great foundation stone (1 Kings 5:17; 7:10; cf. Is 28:16). See note on Mt 16:18. ● Morally: the enduring house (7:25) is like the soul; it is maintained only through labor and the materials of prayer and virtue grounded on Christ (Ps 127:1; 1 Cor 3:11). The foolish man neglects sound construction and maintenance, building on a weak foundation of wealth and earthly success. The Day of Judgment will expose the foundation and destiny of every spiritual builder (Prov 10:25; 1 Tim 6:17–19). --Curtis Mitch, “Introduction to the Gospels,” in The New Testament (Revised Standard Version; Second Catholic Edition.; The Ignatius Catholic Study Bible; San Francisco: Ignatius Press, 2010), 19–20.

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Doing the will of God

7:21–23. To be genuine, prayer must be accompanied by a persevering effort to do God’s will. Similarly, in order to do his will it is not enough to speak about the things of God: there must be consistency between what one preaches—what one says—and what one does: “The kingdom of God does not consist in talk but in power” (1 Cor 4:20); “Be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves” (Jas 1:22).

Christians, “holding loyally to the Gospel, enriched by its resources, and joining forces with all who love and practise justice, have shouldered a weighty task on earth and they must render an account of it to him who will judge all men on the last day. Not every one who says ‘Lord, Lord’ will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but those who do the will of the Father, and who manfully put their hands to the work” (Vatican II, Gaudium et spes, 93).

To enter the Kingdom of heaven, to be holy, it is not enough, then, to speak eloquently about holiness. One has to practise what one preaches, to produce fruit that accords with one’s words. Fray Luis de León puts it very graphically: “Notice that to be a good Christian it is not enough just to pray and fast and hear Mass; God must find you faithful, like another Job or Abraham, in times of tribulation” (Guide for Sinners, book 1, part 2, chap. 21).

Even if a person exercises an ecclesiastical ministry that does not assure his holiness; he needs to practise the virtues he preaches. Besides, we know from experience that any Christian (clerical, religious or lay) who does not strive to act in accordance with the demands of the faith he professes, begins to weaken in his faith and eventually parts company also with the teaching of the Church. Anyone who does not live in accordance with what he says, ends up saying things that are contrary to faith.

The authority with which Jesus speaks in these verses reveals him as sovereign Judge of the living and the dead. No Old Testament prophet ever spoke with this authority.

7:22. “That day”: a technical formula in biblical language meaning the day of the Judgment of the Lord or the Last Judgment.

7:23. This passage refers to the Judgment where Jesus will be the Judge. The sacred text uses a verb which means the public proclamation of a truth. Since in this case Jesus Christ is the Judge who makes the declaration, it takes the form of a judicial sentence.

Building on rock
7:24–27. These verses constitute the positive side of the previous passage. A person who tries to put Christ’s teaching into practice, even if he experiences personal difficulties or lives during times of upheaval in the life of the Church or is surrounded by error, will stay firm in the faith, like the wise man who builds his house on rock.
Also, if we are to stay strong in times of difficulty, we need, when things are calm and peaceful, to accept little contradictions with a good grace, to be very refined in our relationship with God and with others, and to perform the duties of our state in life in a spirit of loyalty and abnegation. By acting in this way we are laying down a good foundation, maintaining the edifice of our spiritual life and repairing any cracks that make their appearance. --Saint Matthew’s Gospel (The Navarre Bible; Dublin; New York: Four Courts Press; Scepter Publishers, 2005), 70–71.

-Dan

Tom

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549182#Comment_549182

Unfortunately, Logos doesn't quite have the resources necessary to follow my advice to converts or those just beginning scripture study:

Spend a week on the Sunday lectionary readings

Spend one day reading with dictionaries, atlases, and commentaries

Spend one day reading their broader Biblical context

Spend one day reading them in the context of patristic readings - a number of resources suggest appropriate readings

Spend one day reading them in the context of the Catechism - again there are some resources to suggest the links

Spend one day reading them in the context of sermons/sermon helps/devotionals

Spend one day reading them in the context of prayer and art

Spend Sunday reading them in the context of how in the world did the pastor see that in the readings?

This prepares you well for teaching or discussing as you have an overview for everyones' potential interest.

MJ, This is a good list for just about any of us! [:D]

Especially since you left it up to us, to chose which resources we feel are best! [Y]

I can especially relate to the last suggestion! [*-)]

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549193#Comment_549193

what resources would be helpful in this situation that Verbum doesn't have?

for catechism, something similar to Opening The Scriptures: A Guide to the Catechism for Use With the Sunday Readings by Kris D. Stubna (preferably as a reading plan[;)])

for fathers, something similar to Journey With the Fathers: Commentaries on the Sunday Gospels, Year A (The Word of God Throughout the Ages. New... by Edith Barnecut

for art ... multiple sources depending upon your taste but think alone the lines of slowing building your own equivalent to Imaging the Word: An Arts and Lectionary Resource by Sharon Iverson Gouwens, Catherine O'Callaghan, Grant Spradling and Susan A. Blain

The reason I don't generally offer suggested resources is that your time, experience and interests determine the exact resources appropriate for you. Too many people quit because someone thinks they ought to start at a level that is higher than their comfort level.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549204#Comment_549204

The reason I don't generally offer suggested resources is that your time, experience and interests determine the exact resources appropriate for you. Too many people quit because someone thinks they ought to start at a level that is higher than their comfort level.

Understand very well, i chose to recommend catholic resources aimed primarily at more novice users... the 2 one volumes and the study Bible. I added the last because even though I see it as a bit over priced i thought he might be looking for something more in-depth. I realize even in catholic circles there are resources that are more liberal and conservative that some people might not like,

-Dan

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549223#Comment_549223

Wealth of knowledge! Plenty to get started with... Thank you!

Antonius

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549236#Comment_549236

For a class in Sacred Scripture (at Sacred Heart Major Seminary - Archdiocese of Detroit) we used the following books (I love them all) :

https://www.logos.com/product/29516/ignatius-catholic-study-bible-new-testament-genesis-exodus-and-the-rsv2ce
https://www.logos.com/product/29607/you-can-understand-the-bible
https://www.logos.com/product/33004/the-bible-compass-a-catholics-guide-to-navigating-the-scriptures

The Catholic Bible Dictionary - edited by Scott Hahn

And also Dei Verbum

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549255#Comment_549255

With hitting space after pasting a link, this looks like:

For a class in Sacred Scripture (at Sacred Heart Major Seminary - Archdiocese of Detroit) we used the following books (I love them all) :

https://www.logos.com/product/29516/ignatius-catholic-study-bible-new-testament-genesis-exodus-and-the-rsv2ce
https://www.logos.com/product/29607/you-can-understand-the-bible
https://www.logos.com/product/33004/the-bible-compass-a-catholics-guide-to-navigating-the-scriptures

Antonius

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549415#Comment_549415

Thank you, now I know how to make links active. I just pasted the text from an editor I use.

Fr. Charles R. Matheny

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549424#Comment_549424

Is Practicum part of Master plus?
I thought it was but, don't seem to find it in my library.

Many of the resources being discussed here as part of Master, also do not seem to be in my Library.

Suggestions, other than calling tech support?

Hate to clog up phone lines before doing due diligence.

Thanks.

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549426#Comment_549426

No, Practicum is a separately purchased product, but it certainly gave me ideas that were well worth the price. However, I guess that depends on how advanced you are at using Verbum...

Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/549444#Comment_549444

Also, several of the items discussed above are not part of the Master's base package, but are add-ons.