"It is finished"- Passover and Crucifixion

Anything about this in the Talmud / Mishnah?

Paul-C said:

Anything about this in the Talmud / Mishnah?

That would be a no then (I did a very quick search)!

Kevin,

Would you mind if I downloaded your paper and saved it?

Milkman said:

Kevin,

Would you mind if I downloaded your paper and saved it?

BTW: If anyone was to make a PB out of it, I'd appreciate a copy of the file.  

Jack [:)]

Yes it's a great job to have. I have both a residential and commercial. I too remember the milkman at our door. We had a milk door on the side of our house and he would leave the milk there. When we were kids we used to climb in and out of it. I still have one customer in the city that has that door. Our milk was delivered by a horse-drawn wagon. The horses name was Prince. Ah memories.

In the past, I had conceived that just as Yeishuu`a was expiring on the cross, the blade was being drawn on the throat of the first Passover lamb of that day. However, that notion seems to be wishful thinking to me, if indeed the numbers of lambs and kids that Josephus speaks about (265,000) is even remotely credible. The logistics of such a number would almost certainly require that the sacrificing begin much earlier than is often suggested. Sometimes our quaint little notions, however cheery or helpful or "enlightening", just don't bear up under the weight of ontology.

Milkman said:

I could with Kevin's permission, convert it to a Word doc and email it to you.

TCBlack? Do you want Kevin's paper sent to you in a Word format?

mm.

David Paul said:

On any normal Passover, if Josephus's figures are credible, the sacrificing would need to begin as early as noon or possibly even prior to that.

Such as: 

G. R. Beasley-Murray, John, Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 36 (Waco: Word, 1987),
341; C. H. Dodd, The Interpretation of the Fourth Gospel (Cambridge: At the University Press,
1958), 424; William E. Hull, ―John,‖ in Luke-John, vol. 9, The Broadman Bible Commentary, ed.
Clifton J. Allen (Nashville: Broadman, 1970), 357; G. H. C. Macgregor, The Gospel of John, The
Moffat New Testament Commentary (New York: Harper, 1928) , 349; R. H. Strachan, The
Fourth Gospel: It’s Significance and Environment, 3d ed. (London: SCM Press, 1960), 317;
Charles H. Talbert, Reading John: A Literary and Theological Commentary on the Fourth Gospel
and the Johannine Epistles (New York: Crossroads, 1994) , 241; Herman C. Waetjen, The Gospel
of the Beloved Disciple, (New York: T & T Clark, 2005), 401.

Peace to you, Kevin!                 Thanks so very kindly for sharing your paper.     I've already quickly perused it and find it very exciting indeed, very worthy of my making it a study document for my own personal growth this Season of Lent. I am truly grateful and commend you for trusting your brothers and sisters on these forums enough to share with us!

                      God Bless you!               ........        your Family!                your Ministry!                   *smile*

Kevin Maples said:

Graham Criddle said:

Does anyone have any suggestions of Logos resources which speak about this?

I did my ThM on allusions to Passover in John's crucifixion narrative. I've never heard of this before. Here is my thesis if you are interested in other allusions. 

http://www.livingwiththecross.org/home/140004400/140004721//THE%20FUNCTION%20OF%20PASCHAL%20ALLUSIONS%20IN%20JOHNS%20CRUCIFIXION%20NARRATIVE_Kevin%20Maples_ThM%20Thesis.pdf 

Peace, Kevin!                Thanks for your great post!         I'm always saying Thanks, frankly, because I'm grateful!       *smile*

             I think I understand what you're getting at, having celebrated the 50 Anniversary of my ordination on July 15, 2012!    

                     Since we do belong to the same country, though, I look forward to when we shall meet!            *smile*

But ^cour citizenship is in heaven, and ^dfrom it we ^eawait a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ, ²¹who will transform ^four lowly body ^gto be like his glorious body, ^hby the power that enables him even ⁱto subject all things to himself.

4　

Therefore, my brothers,¹ whom I love and ^jlong for, ^kmy joy and ^lcrown, ^mstand firm thus in the Lord, my beloved.

Also, I found Raymond Brown's words very helpful and insightful!   *smile*     So, Kevin!          I go to bed tonight ...    a happy camper!

*smile*                           here's some Raymond Brown stuff, not really for you, Kevin -- you've studied this -- but for the others who like me really never took a good long look at it ....

               Guess I'll share a few of them, eh?!          (I know you've already studied this but for me right now it's so very fresh and insightful, and I'm grateful to you for helping me discover it!

By way of additional symbolism, some have proposed that, if the Beloved Disciple is John the son of Zebedee, there is an inclusion with the beginning of the Gospel. In 1:19 we heard of testimony given to Jesus by John the Baptist; in 19:35 we hear of testimony given by John the Beloved Disciple. Medieval painters have not missed this possibility, for in triptychs the two Johns are often depicted on either side of the cross. However, the fact that the Beloved Disciple is unnamed makes an inclusion with John the Baptist too subtle. If there is any inclusion with John the Baptist in 34–35, it is more likely in terms of a comparison between his baptism with water and Christian Baptism symbolized by water accompanied by blood.

Our last problem in Episode 5 concerns the Scripture citations in vss. 36 and 37, which offer a clearer inclusion with the beginning of the Gospel than the proposals just mentioned. In the Note on vs. 36 we discussed two possible OT identifications for the citation, “Not a bone is to be broken.” A reference to the provisions for the paschal lamb is the more likely of the two because of other echoes of the lamb motif in the Passion Narrative (the date is Passover Eve; Jesus is sentenced by Pilate at the noon hour when the slaughter of the paschal lambs begins; the mention of hyssop in 19:29). As for the OT passages mentioned in the Notes, Miss Guilding, p. 170, points out that Exod 12:46 was read in the synagogue lectionaries at Passover in the second year of the three-year cycle, and Num 9:12 in the third year (see vol. 29, pp. 278–80). Thus, any association that John might make between Jesus and the paschal lamb would not be too foreign to Christian readers of Jewish background. We are uncertain whether the paschal lamb motif is also echoed in a secondary way in the haste to have Jesus’ body removed before the next day (Passover, the 15th of Nisan) which would begin at sunset; for while, as we have stated, this attitude was dictated by the law of Deut 21:22–23, there is also the provision in Exod 12:10 that, when the next day comes, nothing must remain of the lamb that has been killed “between the two evenings” (i.e., on the evening that ends the 14th of Nisan and begins the 15th). In any case, the evocation of the paschal lamb motif in John 19:36 forms an excellent inclusion with the Baptist’s testimony given at the beginning of Jesus’ ministry (1:29): “Here is the Lamb of God who takes away the world’s sin.” For this is the hour when, in the words of 1John 1:7, “The blood of Jesus, His Son, cleanses us from all sin.” Some scholars have further suggested that in picturing Jesus as the paschal lamb John is attributing sacrificial character to Jesus’ death. Certainly this is possible, for we pointed out above (p. 917) that in having Jesus carry his own cross, John may have been introducing the typology of Isaac and in ancient Jewish thought a relation had been established between the sacrifice of Isaac and the paschal lamb. Moreover, we saw the theme of Jesus as priest in the symbolism of the tunic in Episode 2. In addition to evoking the theme of sacrifice, the paschal lamb symbolism may also evoke the idea of covenant, of which we have found traces in the Last Discourse (pp. 614, 643–44, 653, 753, 781 above).

Thus far we have been taking the citation, “Not a bone is to be broken,” as an allusion to the provisions for the paschal lamb. But we cannot rule out the possibility that it is also an allusion to Ps 34:21(20), a psalm that deals with the innocent suffering servants of God. In the psalm this verse is a promise that God will not allow their bones to be broken; and thus according to (later?) Jewish thought, they will avoid a mutilation that will prevent resurrection. Dodd, Interpretation, p. 234¹, associates these psalms of the righteous sufferer with the poems of the Suffering Servant in Deutero-Isaiah. And so in John 19:36 we may well have a double inclusion with the reference to the Lamb of God at the beginning of the Gospel (1:29); for in vol. 29, pp. 60–61, we saw that the Lamb of God referred not only to the paschal lamb but also to the Suffering Servant. Jesus is the suffering innocent one who takes on himself the sins of others; and even if he is brought to the slaughter like a lamb (Isa 53:7), God does not allow his bones to be broken and thus does not deprive him of the victory of resurrection.

The second citation that John sees fulfilled in this episode on the cross is found in vs. 37: “They shall look on him whom they have pierced.” This is a variant of Zech 12:10, and chs. 9–14 of Zechariah are an important OT source for citations about Jesus. In John 7:37 the rain and water motif plays a role in what Jesus says at the feast of Tabernacles, and this is related to Zechariah’s vision of what shall happen on the feast of Tabernacles in the messianic days (ch. 14; see vol. 29, pp. 322–23, 326). The theme of the shepherd in John 10 is found also in Zech 11. John 12:15 cites Zech 9:9 about the coming of the king seated on a donkey (vol. 29, pp. 457–58, 460). In the Passion Narrative Matt 26:15 takes the idea of thirty pieces of silver from Zech 11:12, while Mark 14:27, “I will strike the shepherd and the sheep will be scattered” (and seemingly John 16:32), echoes Zech 13:7. The passage we are now considering, Zech 12:10, is also cited in Rev 1:7 in relation to the parousia: “Behold he is coming with the clouds, and every eye will see him, everyone who pierced him; and all the tribes of the earth will wail on account of him.” (The passage is used in a similar way by Justin, Apology i 52.)

How does John interpret Zech 12:10? In the OT context the sight of the one who is pierced is associated with a spirit of compassion, so that the onlookers “mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him.” In the episode at the cross does John think of the onlookers as “the Jews” of vs. 31 (and perhaps the Roman soldiers of 32–34) who, looking upon Jesus pierced with a lance at their instigation, repent and mourn for him? Although this would agree with the OT context and with the theme of Luke 23:48, there is nothing in John’s description to suggest repentance; “the Jews” remain hostile afterwards (19:38, 20:19). Another possible interpretation is that by using a future verb, “They shall look,” John alludes to the parousia, even as does the author of Revelation. Among those who think that, while the citation in 36 refers to what has already happened, the citation of Zechariah in 37 will not be realized until the parousia, we may list Lagrange, Loisy (hesitantly), Wikenhauser, and Schlatter. The verse then becomes a threat of judgment upon those who pierced Jesus. However, in light of the Gospel’s emphasis on realized eschatology, the author is probably thinking not of a future parousia but of a type of judgment that has already taken place. With some hesitation we suggest that the “they” who look upon Jesus as pierced consists of two groups. First, “the Jews,” who are his enemies, are defeated by the very act they instigated; for as they look upon the Jesus who died on the cross, there flows forth, along with his life blood, a stream of life-giving water. The Pharisees had decided to put Jesus to death because the whole world was running after him (12:19); but, ironically, by having him crucified they have fulfilled his prophecy that, when he would be lifted up from the earth, he would draw all men to himself (12:32). They have caused him to be lifted^[1]

Milkman said:

TCBlack? Do you want Kevin's paper sent to you in a Word format?

mm.

TCBlack said:

I was going to do the conversion, but if you've done it I'd love to have it tcblack at the still truth address.

Not a problem. 

Hey Milford,

I don't know how to post the docx on this thread. Show me how?

Let's see if this does it.

3005.THE FUNCTION OF PASCHAL ALLUSIONS IN JOHNS CRUCIFIXION NARRATIVE_Kevin Maples_ThM Thesis.docx

mm

Happy reading brother.

NB.Mick said:

Unfortunately it seems Kevin didn't use any Heading styles

Thanks for everyone's interest. I'm always amazed that there are actually people out there like me who read this stuff and enjoy it.