"It is finished"- Passover and Crucifixion
On Sunday, one of my congregation was talking to me about the idea that just as Jesus spoke the words "It is finished" on the cross, the High Priest would be uttering the same words over the Passover sacrifice.
The idea was that these words were a regular part of the Passover ritual.
I can find a number of references to this on the Internet but nothing in my Logos library.
Does anyone have any suggestions of Logos resources which speak about this?
Thanks, Graham
Comments
On Sunday, one of my congregation was talking to me about the idea that just as Jesus spoke the words "It is finished" on the cross, the High Priest would be uttering the same words over the Passover sacrifice.
The idea was that these words were a regular part of the Passover ritual.
Have also heard that Psalm 22 might have been part of that service. [ritual]
Psa 22:1 *My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?
* Cited Matt. 27:46. Mark 15:34.
[[Was Jesus in despair or just preforming the Passover Sacrifice as our True High Priest and as our one and only true sacrifice?]]
Anything about this in the Talmud / Mishnah?
You may as well ask if Stephen King has written about it.
If Josephus mentions it, I might give it some credence, but it sounds a lot like a wishful Christian wives' tale, of which there are many. Perhaps one of the biggest of all is the fiction that Yeishuu`a's statement "It is finished" means He is finished working. That is preposterous.
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
Does anyone have any suggestions of Logos resources which speak about this?I did my ThM on allusions to Passover in John's crucifixion narrative. I've never heard of this before. Here is my thesis if you are interested in other allusions.
Does anyone have any suggestions of Logos resources which speak about this?I did my ThM on allusions to Passover in John's crucifixion narrative. I've never heard of this before. Here is my thesis if you are interested in other allusions.
Thanks Kevin
Appreciated, Graham
BTW: If anyone was to make a PB out of it, I'd appreciate a copy of the file.
Do you have it in a format other than PDF?
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you.
I was going to do the conversion, but if you've done it I'd love to have it tcblack at the still truth address.TCBlack? Do you want Kevin's paper sent to you in a Word format?
mm.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you.
Peace, Western Brother! *smile*Not a problem.
Is it a problem to post a .docx file on this thread, please? Would save a lot of people a LOT of work, eh?!
Edit: Unless ......... Brother Thomas will be posting it on StillTruth.com ???
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
Peace, Milkman! There is a "Word" Icon just above this writing ... when one responds! Am not sure if one uses the paperclip besides; however, I don't think so... Can anyone else inform Milkman if you need the Word Icon AND the paperclip ... OR just the Word Icon???
Peace to all....
Philippians 4: 4 Rejoice in the Lord always; again I will say, Rejoice. 5 Let your reasonableness be known to everyone. The Lord is at hand..........
Let's see if this does it.
3005.THE FUNCTION OF PASCHAL ALLUSIONS IN JOHNS CRUCIFIXION NARRATIVE_Kevin Maples_ThM Thesis.docx
mm
Not to hijack Graham's thread, but that brings back memories.In my late pre-teen years, my Dad had the residential route and his brother the commercial route for the local dairy. I was allowed to assist both for all the chocolate milk I could drink.
Kevin,
Would you mind if I downloaded your paper and saved it?
Hope Kevin won't mind because I had already saved the file.
See that Kevin posted one minute before me—Thanks for the permission.
Graham, don't believe I have heard that one before. It does not seem credible to me, but that is just a personal feeling.
Jack [:)]
Yes it's a great job to have. I have both a residential and commercial. I too remember the milkman at our door. We had a milk door on the side of our house and he would leave the milk there. When we were kids we used to climb in and out of it. I still have one customer in the city that has that door. Our milk was delivered by a horse-drawn wagon. The horses name was Prince. Ah memories.
Beautiful. Thank you Kevin.Does anyone have any suggestions of Logos resources which speak about this?I did my ThM on allusions to Passover in John's crucifixion narrative. I've never heard of this before. Here is my thesis if you are interested in other allusions.
Sarcasm is my love language. Obviously I love you.
In the past, I had conceived that just as Yeishuu`a was expiring on the cross, the blade was being drawn on the throat of the first Passover lamb of that day. However, that notion seems to be wishful thinking to me, if indeed the numbers of lambs and kids that Josephus speaks about (265,000) is even remotely credible. The logistics of such a number would almost certainly require that the sacrificing begin much earlier than is often suggested. Sometimes our quaint little notions, however cheery or helpful or "enlightening", just don't bear up under the weight of ontology.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
In the past, I had conceived that just as Yeishuu`a was expiring on the cross, the blade was being drawn on the throat of the first Passover lamb of that day. However, that notion seems to be wishful thinking to me, if indeed the numbers of lambs and kids that Josephus speaks about (265,000) is even remotely credible. The logistics of such a number would almost certainly require that the sacrificing begin much earlier than is often suggested. Sometimes our quaint little notions, however cheery or helpful or "enlightening", just don't bear up under the weight of ontology.
Something interesting just occurred to me, something that might make that "I thought I was wrong, but I was wrong" thing kick-in on this subject. On any normal Passover, if Josephus's figures are credible, the sacrificing would need to begin as early as noon or possibly even prior to that. But on the Passover in question, it would have been impossible for that to take place...because the sun was darkened from the sixth to the ninth hour! Depending on just how dark it was, it would have clearly impeded the normal routine, even if only because of the psychological and social effect the darkness would have had on the population at Jerusalem. So, if the priests were waiting or immobilized by the darkness, that might have kept the first lamb from being slaughtered until the ninth hour. Something to ponder.
ASUS ProArt x570s Creator, AMD R9 5950x, HyperX 64gb 3600 RAM, ASUS Strix RTX 2080 ti
"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
On any normal Passover, if Josephus's figures are credible, the sacrificing would need to begin as early as noon or possibly even prior to that.From my thesis: "Many scholars have suggested that the chronology of John places Jesus‘ death at the same time as the slaying of the lambs in the temple."
Such as:
G. R. Beasley-Murray, John, Word Biblical Commentary, vol. 36 (Waco: Word, 1987),
341; C. H. Dodd, The Interpretation of the Fourth Gospel (Cambridge: At the University Press,
1958), 424; William E. Hull, ―John,‖ in Luke-John, vol. 9, The Broadman Bible Commentary, ed.
Clifton J. Allen (Nashville: Broadman, 1970), 357; G. H. C. Macgregor, The Gospel of John, The
Moffat New Testament Commentary (New York: Harper, 1928) , 349; R. H. Strachan, The
Fourth Gospel: It’s Significance and Environment, 3d ed. (London: SCM Press, 1960), 317;
Charles H. Talbert, Reading John: A Literary and Theological Commentary on the Fourth Gospel
and the Johannine Epistles (New York: Crossroads, 1994) , 241; Herman C. Waetjen, The Gospel
of the Beloved Disciple, (New York: T & T Clark, 2005), 401.
William E. Hull, ―John,‖ in Luke-John, vol. 9, The Broadman Bible Commentary, ed.
Clifton J. Allen (Nashville: Broadman, 1970)
Wow! Didn't know any copies of that commentary still existed [:D] I attended Southeastern back in those days [:$] Understand that it is a very different institution these days.
There is a more detailed discussion of this issue in the thesis if you are interested.
I am—very much interested in your discussion.
Hmmm, I wonder what is the supposed Biblical reference??
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"The Unbelievable Work...believe it or not." Little children...Biblical prophecy is not Christianity's friend.
I can't find one for the priest's saying it.
So if there is any truth in this it must, I guess, be based on records of Passover practice in that period?