I hope I have read this upgrade message wrong

I've been using 4 since it came out and I haven't hardly had any bugs. The one's I've had have been very minor and nothing to bring my work to a halt or even slow me down.

On the other hand, I realize some have had major issues, but I think that is a minority. So if the "buggyness" is one of your reasons for waiting to buy, I would say that's not a good enough reason in light of the deal they are currently offering.

As far as missing features that you use in version 3, I don't know what you have in mind. I'm sure it's not so essential that you couldn't purchase it now and continue to use version 3 for those features missing.

So if those two issues are your only reason for withholding a purchase, then I would say purchase it now with the discount and then wait till they give some more updates before actually installing it.

Hi Don,

I have been using l4 since beginning of Nov and l3 many, many years. There were a few bugs that were soon resolved but they did not stop productivity. The most difficult thing was getting use to the new features in l4 and learning how l4 does the same things (but better) as l3. Give yourself time to learn it. Now is not a bad time. Plus the help on the forum has been outstanding. Whenever I have had a question, many have jumped in to help clarify and solve them. I have been using it now exclusively for several weeks. I still am anticipating the missing features. Just be sure to be patient as you learn the new features. They truly are better, imho.

Blessings-

john

Does this mean after the holiday season the price of an upgrade goes up? In order to get the current price, will I be forced to buy an upgrade to version 4 before I am comfortable using it, a product which is very buggy still and with missing features that I use in version 3? I hope I am reading this wrong...

It looks to me that it means just what it appears to mean.

But I'm not seeing any bugs, and haven't for quite a while. Which kinds of bugs are you concerned about?

Missing features are still in the works, I hardly miss them right now. L4 does 99% of what I want to do anyway. What are you missing, that you really can't live without?

It seems to me that your choices are: 1) wait until L4 has everything I want and looks more stable to me than it does now (and spend more); 2) buy now to save some money, trusting that Logos will work out these issues in the next months; 3) keep using Libronix (L3) and forget about L4.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57592#Comment_57592

The beta forums shows releases coming out with lots of bugs fixed, and there are at least 100 threads a day with people describing crashes, performance issues, freezes, bugs, and more.

While I appreciate the vote of confidence in your posts, those statements seem somewhat anecdotal in light of the documented bugs already fixed in newer beta releases and the reported problems yet to be sorted out.

It's easy to say buy now and keep using version 3, but for an investment of $500 or more depending on the package upgraded to, that seems like a little bit of a leap for a lot of money.

Rick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57589#Comment_57589

I think that what Logos is referring to is a discount to your upgrade price. If you go to wwwlogos.com, sign in and hit the upgrade now button you will see your current version and the rest of the packages. If you notice there are three prices (1) Retail price (2) Upgrade price and finally (3) Your price.

I would think that the third option is simply a sell to try and get you to go ahead and upgrade and after the holidays you will have to pay the normal upgrade price if you choose to upgrade.

Rick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57595#Comment_57595

The beta forums shows releases coming out with lots of bugs fixed, and there are at least 100 threads a day with people describing crashes, performance issues, freezes, bugs, and more.

While I appreciate the vote of confidence in your posts, those statements seem somewhat anecdotal in light of the documented bugs already fixed in newer beta releases and the reported problems yet to be sorted out.

It's easy to say buy now and keep using version 3, but for an investment of $500 or more depending on the package upgraded to, that seems like a little bit of a leap for a lot of money.

I think if we tallied up those who haven't had serious issues with those who have the former would win out. But maybe I'm wrong and us three above are the lucky few.

But as Richard said, you can pay less now and get something a little buggy that may not effect you in any way (as it hasn't with me and many others) or you can wait and pay more. In that sense, look at the discount as being in place of the bugs and missing features (which honestly aren't a big issue for many). But I don't think you will have a reason to be discontent if you wait and pay more... that's just how it is.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57595#Comment_57595

It's easy to say buy now and keep using version 3, but for an investment of $500 or more depending on the package upgraded to, that seems like a little bit of a leap for a lot of money.

Well, you could just try the free logos 4 engine (without the crossgrade) and see how it works for you. Then if it works OK, then you may be a little more confident yourself to upgrade.

John

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57595#Comment_57595

The beta forums shows releases coming out with lots of bugs fixed, and there are at least 100 threads a day with people describing crashes, performance issues, freezes, bugs, and more.

While I appreciate the vote of confidence in your posts, those statements seem somewhat anecdotal in light of the documented bugs already fixed in newer beta releases and the reported problems yet to be sorted out.

It's easy to say buy now and keep using version 3, but for an investment of $500 or more depending on the package upgraded to, that seems like a little bit of a leap for a lot of money.

Don, I think you're confusing the beta form with the Logos 4 forum of which it is a subset. The people using the beta are testing out the new 4.0a release which has some new features added on above Logos 4.0. Using beta software is entirely voluntary. Yes, the beta still has some pretty egregious bugs, as I understand. (I'm not using it; I'm waiting for the final release of 4.0a.) But the Logos folks are fixing them just as quickly as people are reporting them (nearly) and won't release 4.0a until they've stabilized it. So you're getting a glimpse of the internals of testing and preparing a release to the public. What you'd get if you ordered Logos 4 now would be the golden release of 4.0, not the beta of 4.0a.

A few people have noted isolated problems with L4, but it's generally a pretty solid release (as of SR7 which is the current service release).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57604#Comment_57604

Wow. Upgrade now to a product that *may* not be very good quality (and I read the threads, there are people having serious problems, and there are non-trivial things being fixed), or pay more when it's truly out of beta. I am not sure that's a characteristic of a software vendor I agree with.

We may disagree, but I know what I read in the threads. Here are the facts as I see them:

(1) I have over 3500 purchased resources, so Logos working properly is very important to me.

(2) I currently plan to upgrade to version 4 once the releases that fix bugs slow down, and maybe the first list of features has been released to show that Logos is committed to that schedule (I happen to think we will see a non-trivial slip in feature releases, because the bug-fix work is way more than Logos anticipated. Time will tell if I am right)

(3) I know what the upgrade prices are for me today.

So if Logos raises the prices for me to upgrade while this product is so unstable, and while still acknowledging that Logos 4 "may not be right for everyone quite yet, if so stay with version 3", then that is not a software vendor I want to work with anymore, and I will not spend another penny on the product.

So we will see...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57609#Comment_57609

But the beta fixes some serious problems with the released version of the product.....

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

Wow. Upgrade now to a product that *may* not be very good quality (and I read the threads, there are people having serious problems, and there are non-trivial things being fixed), or pay more when it's truly out of beta. I am not sure that's a characteristic of a software vendor I agree with.

Kinda sounds like you already made up your mind. Maybe you were not even asking for any input.

john

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57595#Comment_57595

The beta forums shows releases coming out with lots of bugs fixed, and there are at least 100 threads a day with people describing crashes, performance issues, freezes, bugs, and more.

As someone trying to help with a lot of those threads, very few are actually bugs with L4. Most have to do with simply not knowing how to do things in the new program, or installation issues on shared networks. Rarely there's a problem with a file being corrupted during download. I haven't seen a genuine bug in the service release for quite some time. The few that do exist don't inhibit normal working with the program (yes, I have that black--bar issue, but it's really a cosmetic, not a functional bug). Some alleged bugs with L4 are more than likely problems with other programs running between L4 and Windows - not a problem with L4.

Bugs in the upcoming beta are to be expected. That's why it's still in beta. But even that release is very, very stable.The main purpose of the beta is not to deal with bugs, but to test some new features, and some routines that should help some folks with performance issues.

The biggest issues have to do with performance. Those are for the most part hardware issues, though sometimes there are some other unknown factors that come into play as well.

Why don't you look through the newbie thread and see the responses there. They aren't all wild about L4, but for the most part they are finding it useful and stable.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57617#Comment_57617

John, no need to change this to an attack on my motives. I started this thread asking if my interpretation of the email "Thank You" was right. I was looking for opinions on that, not opinions on whether or not version 4 is buggy. I respect the opinions of people who think differently, I explained why I think what I do given the number of posts, number of releases, and the beta process. Why don't we leave it at that, I think I have been pretty clear what I was asking about when I started the thread.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57609#Comment_57609

Yes, the beta still has some pretty egregious bugs, as I understand.

Not really, Rosie. It's very, very stable. I haven't had a crash in weeks. The biggest bug I've noticed is that the NA27 interlinear doesn't remember my preferences from one session to the next. Hardly an egregious bug.

Milford Charles Murray

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

Wow. Upgrade now to a product that *may* not be very good quality (and I read the threads, there are people having serious problems, and there are non-trivial things being fixed), or pay more when it's truly out of beta. I am not sure that's a characteristic of a software vendor I agree with.

We may disagree, but I know what I read in the threads. Here are the facts as I see them:

(1) I have over 3500 purchased resources, so Logos working properly is very important to me.

(2) I currently plan to upgrade to version 4 once the releases that fix bugs slow down, and maybe the first list of features has been released to show that Logos is committed to that schedule (I happen to think we will see a non-trivial slip in feature releases, because the bug-fix work is way more than Logos anticipated. Time will tell if I am right)

(3) I know what the upgrade prices are for me today.

So if Logos raises the prices for me to upgrade while this product is so unstable, and while still acknowledging that Logos 4 "may not be right for everyone quite yet, if so stay with version 3", then that is not a software vendor I want to work with anymore, and I will not spend another penny on the product.

So we will see...

Peace, Don! *smile*

Absolutely love L4! Truly! However, I load L3 up every day and still use it now and again. If you are going to upgrade anyway, as you said, why not get the good price and keep on using L3 as you have always done. Even trying out various features of L4 as you will be currently relying on L3 for your work. I have bought a number of resources since L4, and I make sure they get downloaded to L3 also.

As I see it, you have nothing to use and much to gain .....

Yours in Christ,

........... Mel

Frank Sauer

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57614#Comment_57614

Don, please be careful to not lump the posts concerning serious problems with the Mac version in with the PC version. There are a lot of posts with the serious issues on the Mac version because they are not even in Beta yet, it is still be tested by some Mac users in Alpha testing...

The PC version of Logos 4 is still missing some features you may be familiar with in Version 3, but they are on a set time table and scheduled to be implemented in dates ranging from soon to the Summer of 2010 for funstions like Sermon File Add-in.

Also please be aware that the upgrade cost is not for the engine but for the additional resources you will receive in return. Most of the new resources are being formatted to be accessible in Logos 3.0 for those who choose to avoid Logos 4 until all functionality is complete.

So if the only thing holding you back from upgrading is concern with the Logos 4 engine, don't miss out on the great bargain available for the resources you get... I'm still praying for some supernatural provision to be able to upgrade to Scholar's Silver from Leader's, even with my Academic faculty discount it is still out of budget for me...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57622#Comment_57622

John, no need to change this to an attack on my motives.

I apologize if you feel I was attacking you. But, when I posted my confidence, it was just a matter of me sharing my experience and responding to your hesitation. Then you responded with a comment about logos 4 "may" work and that doesn't help you. I misunderstood your first post. No attack here.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

So if Logos raises the prices for me to upgrade while this product is so unstable, and while still acknowledging that Logos 4 "may not be right for everyone quite yet, if so stay with version 3", then that is not a software vendor I want to work with anymore, and I will not spend another penny on the product.

So we will see...

Hi Don, remember that you can use many of the resources built for L4 in L3. There is a link somewhere that gives you that option. Get the cheaper price and use the resources in L3 while waiting for L4 to meet your expectations.

Happy L4 user.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

Wow. Upgrade now to a product that *may* not be very good quality (and I read the threads, there are people having serious problems, and there are non-trivial things being fixed), or pay more when it's truly out of beta. I am not sure that's a characteristic of a software vendor I agree with.

Why not? This doesn't strike me as a legitimate complaint. Especially since they are offering you a big discount. Do they owe the product at a certain price?

I currently plan to upgrade to version 4 once the releases that fix bugs slow down, and maybe the first list of features has been released to show that Logos is committed to that schedule (I happen to think we will see a non-trivial slip in feature releases, because the bug-fix work is way more than Logos anticipated. Time will tell if I am right)

From what I see, everyone here is telling you that your concerns in this area are simply unjustified. Of course, we can't convince you against your will, but we have read the forums just as much as you have and we have used the product.

So if Logos raises the prices for me to upgrade while this product is so unstable, and while still acknowledging that Logos 4 "may not be right for everyone quite yet, if so stay with version 3", then that is not a software vendor I want to work with anymore, and I will not spend another penny on the product.

It seems to me that you are overreacting. They are giving you a discount now... later they will not.... your complaint is that the discount is in effect while the program still has a few kinks? I fail to see the problem, especially since you can purchase the product now and use it after the kinks are worked out.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57622#Comment_57622

I was looking for opinions on that, not opinions on whether or not version 4 is buggy. I respect the opinions of people who think differently, I explained why I think what I do given the number of posts, number of releases, and the beta process. Why don't we leave it at that, I think I have been pretty clear what I was asking about when I started the thread.

Don,

I think you are not carefully reading the threads. There are four different classes of threads going on:

1) Logos 4.0a beta -- you will not get this in your upgrade. You have to specifically download this knowing you are becoming a voluntary beta tester.

2) Logos 4A for Mac - This is predominantly where all the whoopla is about bugginess. If you are a Windows user you won't have these problems.

3) Logos 4.0 R7 (4.0.3.3272) - This is the nice, stable new Windows version that has a few features that will be implemented in the next few months. Not buggy, just missing a few features yet. Most forum posts are by experienced Version 3 users who are trying to use Version 4 the way they used Version 3. The problem is Version 4 does things differently. The forum is helping those users learn how to do things the new way. These are not "bug" issues. They are training issues. If you were new to Logos altogether, you would not have to un-learn the old way and re-learn the new way. That is what the majority of the posts are about.

$) Finally, threre are the off-topic, silly, theological, political and goodwill posts. That's just part of the comaraderie around here.

Please consider upgrading just for the resources, if nothing else. You can experiment with the Logos 4 interface and move to it or stay with Version 3. Either way you are getting a good deal on the resources. If you wait until the sale is over the price goes up.

I wish you well.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57595#Comment_57595

The beta forums shows releases coming out with lots of bugs fixed, and there are at least 100 threads a day with people describing crashes, performance issues, freezes, bugs, and more.

Don, that is a beta forum, not the release version.

Please also keep in mind that the forums are by nature skewed towards those who have problems, complaints, or are upset. It is the way human nature works.

I started working with L4 in October during the Beta testing days. It was without question THE most stable Beta I have ever used. I only only had 1 or 2 crashes in the entire process.

Also, try not to confuse missing features with bugs. Yes, L4 is adding in some features and the existing users are a big part of helping give input so Logos designs this to meet our needs. But building in new features is not the same as unreliable or buggy software.

In short, you will not be forced to buy anything you don't wont. But Logos cannot be forced to run the discounts past a time when it is no longer profitable for them to offer the sale.

Anyway, that is my 2 cents. Good luck in making your decision brother.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

You are correct that there are still some bugs that create difficulties for some of us. There are also missing features that are important to the workflow of some of us. I count myself as incovenienced by both. Not an ideal world. However, you will find your current resources from Logos (not personal content which is not yet converted) works as well or better than in L3. For features not yet in L4, you can revert to L3 assured that you'll be able to move L3 work into L4.

The costs of waiting beyond the current offer:

a) the difference in price between the introductory and normal price.

b) lost of interest on the introductory cost between now and when you would purchase it anyway

c) lost of time switching between L3 & L4 depending upon your work flow - with credit for the decreased learning time for a completed product with strong help and tutorials.

Obviously, as I am still trying to get a particular bug fixed, I made this comparison and took the update now route. I have found it worth the hassle but the formula may no lead to the same decision for you.

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57643#Comment_57643

One last thought Don.

I have been over in the Mac version a lot, but guys like Richard, Matthew and Thomas and Philip have been reading every post on this for months now. I think they have a very good perspective on what L4 is all about and will give you some good direction.

and MJ [:)]

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

So if Logos raises the prices for me to upgrade while this product is so unstable, and while still acknowledging that Logos 4 "may not be right for everyone quite yet, if so stay with version 3", then that is not a software vendor I want to work with anymore, and I will not spend another penny on the product.

I do partly agree with you here, though I think you overstate your case. It would be reasonable for Logos to provide upgrade deals during the period where Logos 4 won't do all you need it to do. However, Logos 4 is not unstable. One or two have had issues installing it. And even smaller number have had periodic crashes. Frankly that's normal for any software. Logos 4 is not right for everyone because a small minority rely on L3 features that L4 doesn't have yet. Unless you're one of them, that means Logos 4 should be for you.

I also feel it necessary to add that although Logos 4 might be missing 10% of Logos 3's features, it adds 50% more. Logos 4 can do more that Logos 3 can't do, than Logos 3 does that Logos 4 can't (if that makes sense!). The vast, vast majority of people who have upgraded are very happy with their decision, and are finding themselves going back to Logos 3 less and less often. Many have uninstalled L3 and most of those who haven't have only left it installed 'just in case' because disk space isn't an issue for them. I haven't fired up Logos 3 for weeks.

David Wilson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

Hi Don:

I think that sticking with version 3 for now is quite a legitimate option for you.

However you did say that you currently plan to move to Logos 4 when it is fully functional, which Logos seem to have scheduled for mid 2010.

You might want to consider the current "introductory upgrade offer" from another angle.

With an upgrade to another level, such as Scholar's Gold to Platinum or Portfoliio, you get a significant number of additional resources in a package deal. You can use the vast majority of these additional resources in Version 3. Would it be worth it to you to get the additional resouces with such an upgrade package even if you do not move all these resources yet to Logos 4 ? If so it may be worth investing in an upgrade now, just to get the additional resources and use them in version 3.

You can do this after you upgrade by just running the respective Logos 3 update script, which will add your new resources to version 3.

You can get the Logos 4 engine later to test drive it when you feel it is ready. Think of that as a free bonus.

For me the additional resources alone were well worth the upgrade package cost. I have not dropped using version 3 and I have those additional resources available to me in version 3.

This way I can install Logos 4 as well for a test drive as it does not in any way overwrite or disable version 3, it stands alone in its own space. You can choose to use it or not . To me, most of the value of an upgrade is in the additional resources that come with it. They alone are worth the investment.

J. Morris

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57650#Comment_57650

It makes sense for a company to list a new product at is discount for a LIMITED time.

I think L4 is great. I have not had ONE bug/crash problem for about a month now. (since SR7 release)

I'm trying to empathetically find justification for the emotionally charged posts of yours and am unable to understand your reasoning.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57663#Comment_57663

For those that didn't just try to deny that I might have a different opinion than them or claim I was being emotional, and offered facts and/or reasoning, I thank you. You have given me a lot to think about, especially the thought about the price vs. the value of new resources alone.

I appreciate the time spent in trying to reason through why you all saw things differently. I have hesitated to voice my concerns because I feared getting people who would just argue or flame. I guess some will do that if they disagree but don't have any value to offer, oh well.

I will give this careful thought with the facts presented. I still think it has been horrific that Logos would release version 4 in the state it was in, I hope they never do that again. But you have given me some good info to consider. Thanks again.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57622#Comment_57622

John, no need to change this to an attack on my motives. I started this thread asking if my interpretation of the email "Thank You" was right. I was looking for opinions on that, not opinions on whether or not version 4 is buggy. I respect the opinions of people who think differently, I explained why I think what I do given the number of posts, number of releases, and the beta process. Why don't we leave it at that, I think I have been pretty clear what I was asking about when I started the thread.

Don, I am in no way a techie. I have been using L4 since it was rolled out. I experienced a quirky thing or two (mostly in notes). But nothing that came close to a crash. My understanding is that the non-beta version (I believe "SR7") -- which I am using-- is lacking some things yet to be released, such as certain "Notes" functions (importing from L3, eg). For a few people, this lack has been irritating. It hasn't really bothered me, and I use L4 every week. If you want to, you can still use L3 for those functions.

It is in the beta versions (several have been released since early Nov) that are experiencing more bugs. Those bugs are directly related to the enhancements being made. Those enhancements are either what Logos promised to deliver already (note importation being one--I don't think that is released yet, just giving that as an example) or they are responses to things we have already suggested in the last month or so that Logos is trying to implement for us.

The adventurous users are using the betas and reporting the most bugs.

My recommendation: buy L4, get a great deal on new resources. If your computer meets/exceeds the specs, you should have little trouble with it. Like I said, I use it daily and am no techie. It might take you a while to get used to it. You can always use L3 until you are ready to make the whole switch. (or you can "jump in" like I did and forget L3).

I for one am glad I got it early, even with some features not being all there (heck, I gained wayyy more features that I didn't have in L3 already that make it fun and powerful, too)

Peace.

Friedrich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57708#Comment_57708

Hey! I didn't see page 2 before I posted. I guess many ended up saying what I did so redundantly. oh well.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57708#Comment_57708

Don,

I have been using L4 for about 4 - 5 weeks and have had virtually no problems. The biggest challenge was installing L4 on one of my computers without the internet. This required contacting customer support, a 30 minute wait on hold and about 45 minutes on the phone with the rep, but it was worth it. I now have L4 on 2 computers and no crashes.

As others have said, the upgrade cost may be worth the additional resources alone that you can use in L3 (most of them), but that would depend on what resources you desire.

I hope you find the solution that works best for you.

Ron

Todd Phillips

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57674#Comment_57674

I will give this careful thought with the facts presented. I still think it has been horrific that Logos would release version 4 in the state it was in, I hope they never do that again. But you have given me some good info to consider. Thanks again.

Thanks for reconsidering, but I'd beg you to actually try it before calling it "horrific".

Michael Lyman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57717#Comment_57717

Don,

I bought it on November 5th and have had nothing but problems on one computer and somewhat smooth sailing on the other, although I haven't used it too often lately on the "stable" one. I still think the upgrade was a great deal that couldn't be passed up. I've been offered a refund but refused. If you can purchase now I don't think you'll be disappointed in the long run.

Mike Aubrey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

I currently plan to upgrade to version 4 once the releases that fix bugs slow down, and maybe the first list of features has been released to show that Logos is committed to that schedule (I happen to think we will see a non-trivial slip in feature releases, because the bug-fix work is way more than Logos anticipated. Time will tell if I am right)

Don, 4.0a bugs from the beta forum *AREN'T* in the 4.0 SR7.

The program *isn't* unstable.

To put it extremely bluntly: You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about when you say there are lots of bugs. You're simply wrong.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

Does this mean after the holiday season the price of an upgrade goes up? In order to get the current price, will I be forced to buy an upgrade to version 4 before I am comfortable using it, a product which is very buggy still and with missing features that I use in version 3? I hope I am reading this wrong...

I'm not in the Marketing department, and don't know the plans for upgrade pricing, but that's how I read the email.

If you want to get the best price, upgrade now. The good news is that you're paying for the resources, not the software. If you think that the new resources you're being offered in the upgrade are a good value for money, then buy the upgrade, and install and use them right away in Libronix DLS 3. Read http://blog.logos.com/archives/2009/12/using_your_new_logos_4_resources_in_logos_3_or_logos_for_mac_1.html for details on how to do this.

When you think that Logos 4 is stable and full-featured enough to run, download and install it for free.

(Or, run it right now. Logos 4 installs and runs side by side with LDLS3, so you don't lose anything by installing it. Give it a go and see if it works for you.)

Mike Childs

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57613#Comment_57613

Wow! 3500 resources? , Really? I am impressed and jealous, too. Upgrading is pocket change compared to what you must have spent to buy 3500 resources. And you are just going to walk away from Logos and not "spend another penny on the product?"

Isn't that kind of like cutting off your nose to spite your face?

Well, we all live with our own decisions. May the Lord bless you, but I don't think Logos is the problem here.

Luuk Dondorp

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57782#Comment_57782

(Or, run it right now. Logos 4 installs and runs side by side with LDLS3, so you don't lose anything by installing it. Give it a go and see if it works for you.)

Don,

This is exactly what I have done. I have L4 and L3. I have upgraded so I can use the new resources in L4 AND L3. I didn't lose anything, I just have had a lot of new resources for less AND I have the new L4 engine for FREE !! So, it is only a plus plus situation.

L4 is far from horrific. This is not an objective description but merely an opinion.

Please, re-consider all the reactions of these brothers and sisters..and yours as well..

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57795#Comment_57795

Just a question,

Even though Logos4 is not "perfect" right now (although I am doing fine-making perfectly marvelous mistakes all by myself!), won't there be updates to fix any and all problems found? Won't these updates be free?

This may seem like an ignorant question, I guess it is because I am not "computery" at all (See, I don't even know the word, techi or how to spell it.), but if the answer to my question is yes, then I haven't lost anything, right? I've made an okay decision; I get to play with L4 earlier than I would if I waited and be more efficient then than I am now (deficient :-)? and I've saved money? and I can always use L3 if I get into a pinch?

I have just been a little confused with this thread and have been waiting for someone to confirm for me that the updates will be free. If that is the case, then I'm a happy camper. If that's not the case, then I'm still a happy camper! (Because I camp in HIS glorious campground now, and He is SOON going to come and bring me to HIS even more glorious home!)

Sharon

PS Just a thought...I know I'm a newbie(strange language on these things you call forums), but as I have read the threads, it seems like (it may not be), but it seems like you all back down to each other just an ever so tad quicker when a woman is the one who may be offended, rather than when it is a man.

If that has any validity in it, (and it very well may not because I have only been reading for about a week) (and yet it may, because in only a week I have seen quite a few flares-ouch!) What is it you say now -- LOL? When in Greece.. :-) Anyway, if there is any truth to that perception, I want to say I appreciate the honor you all obviously give to women. But I also want to say, please calm down just as quickly with everyone. Why not rather be wronged? Keep on expressing your opinions. They are great! But perhaps try to manifest that same wonderful honor just as quickly with each and every 'man'.

I see and love the camaraderie and hope to get to know you all more. I certainly don't mean to criticize - rather urge you to excel still more! I am learning so much from these threads as I try to figure out how to drive L4 - and I am touched and humbled by the abundant love and compassion I do see in each and every thread that I have read!

J.R. Miller

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57816#Comment_57816

Even though Logos4 is not "perfect" right now (although I am doing fine-making perfectly marvelous mistakes all by myself!), won't there be updates to fix any and all problems found? Won't these updates be free?

You are right. All the updates, fixes, and new features specific to your 4.0 package are free. Blessings

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57822#Comment_57822

Thank you. And a "Yippee!" to that!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57816#Comment_57816

PS Just a thought...I know I'm a newbie(strange language on these things you call forums), but as I have read the threads, it seems like (it may not be), but it seems like you all back down to each other just an ever so tad quicker when a woman is the one who may be offended, rather than when it is a man.

If that has any validity in it, (and it very well may not because I have only been reading for about a week) (and yet it may, because in only a week I have seen quite a few flares-ouch!) What is it you say now -- LOL? When in Greece.. :-) Anyway, if there is any truth to that perception, I want to say I appreciate the honor you all obviously give to women. But I also want to say, please calm down just as quickly with everyone. Why not rather be wronged? Keep on expressing your opinions. They are great! But perhaps try to manifest that same wonderful honor just as quickly with each and every 'man'.

I see and love the camaraderie and hope to get to know you all more. I certainly don't mean to criticize - rather urge you to excel still more! I am learning so much from these threads as I try to figure out how to drive L4 - and I am touched and humbled by the abundant love and compassion I do see in each and every thread that I have read!

It's inevitable that conflicts arise since we are all human. But I don't think the conflicts per se are necessarily a problem. To take just one instance: when Paul confronted Peter that brought to light a conflict, one that was necessary and that the church was better of having than not having. Paul could have thought "I don't want to start an argument" or many other similar things that we think when we see two or more people coming into conflict, but, thankfully, he didn't.

Of course, the type of conflicts that arise on this forum are rarely, if ever, as serious as that conflict. But my point is only that I'm not sure the actual event of the conflict or "flares" are part of the problem, they arise only because there is already a problem and they are the opportunity to resolve it. We often make poor use of that opportunity but imagine if you were at the Paul/Peter event and you didn't know what was going on, but you saw Paul walking over to confront Peter. I would have probably ran up to Paul and been like "Psst, sit back down, man. It's not a big deal, he's just having a meal. Do you really want to start a big fight?"

But I digress...

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57915#Comment_57915

John,

What usually happens is people use language that doesn't come across in print very well...they start the post with words like: "horrific" "bug-infested" "trash" "garbage" and on and on and then expect people to not even address their wording? That doesn't seem reasonable.

Then in response to this type of language... (as you would expect) people try and give their opinion....and the flames start...

Then come those who feel they need to police those who've expressed their opinion by telling them that they shouldn't have expressed their opinion...hmmm [:D]

If you'll notice; the threads that start like this:

"Hi...I'm new to Logos and I'm wondering about this package deal...it seems to be good financially, but I had a few questions about the stability of the platform...can anyone chime in and tell me what they've experienced? Can someone help me sort out my options?"

They don't generally turn into flame wars....their Q's get answered.....why?

Because they were stated with concise, non-inflammatory language and what came across was a sincere desire to sort things out....

It seems to me, that's a great starting point for these types of posts....I just answered one yesterday and the woman was very gracious about here V4 questions....it was a pleasure to post answers for her.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/57936#Comment_57936

John,

I perfectly agree. Had I been there, I would probably not have understood that He was contending for the faith. And yet now, with much surer prophesy, I can stand in the present and be grateful and proud of Paul. Thanks for responding.

Robert,

I also agree with you, Robert. The inflammatory beginning was bait for a fire. And yet, we don't have to take the bait.

I wasn't trying to police those who had expressed their opinion or tell them they shouldn't have. I actually asked everyone to keep stating their opinions and excel still more.

I want to ask you sincere question. In forum language does putting a smiley face at the end of a question take the sting out of a word like police? If the smiley face means that the whole sentence is just to be taken humorously, I really want to know. Perhaps the "then come those who..." was not intended for me. If it wasn't, please forgive me for speculating. I don't want to intrude on anything. I was just trying to participate as I looked for information on L4. I will try harder and learn the protocol. I am truly sorry if my comments were out of line.

Sharon

Debra W Bouey

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/58087#Comment_58087

John,

I perfectly agree. Had I been there, I would probably not have understood that He was contending for the faith. And yet now, with much surer prophesy, I can stand in the present and be grateful and proud of Paul. Thanks for responding.

Robert,

I also agree with you, Robert. The inflammatory beginning was bait for a fire. And yet, we don't have to take the bait.

I wasn't trying to police those who had expressed their opinion or tell them they shouldn't have. I actually asked everyone to keep stating their opinions and excel still more.

I want to ask you sincere question. In forum language does putting a smiley face at the end of a question take the sting out of a word like police? If the smiley face means that the whole sentence is just to be taken humorously, I really want to know. Perhaps the "then come those who..." was not intended for me. If it wasn't, please forgive me for speculating. I don't want to intrude on anything. I was just trying to participate as I looked for information on L4. I will try harder and learn the protocol. I am truly sorry if my comments were out of line.

Sharon

As I read through the thread, I found your comments neither intrusive nor out of line. [:)]

Debra

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/58107#Comment_58107

Debra,

Thank you for your kindness.

Sharon

Richard Lyall

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/58154#Comment_58154

Hi Don

Here's my two pence worth as we say in the UK ...

I've been around the beta and the forums since the beginning so have a fair overview of things I think.

From my software engineering background, I'd say we need to distinguish 3 kinds of issues

The Crash - show stopping. Software bombs and has to be rerun.
The Bug - software does not work as intended, but does not "bomb".
The Enhancement - features that work as intended, but they could be enhanced by making certain changes.

Crashes - definitely have become much less frequent and Beta 5 is rarely crashing for me. This kind of problem increases when new areas of functionality are added (e,g. Beta 1 saw an increase) but pretty solid again recently.

Bugs - these are bring ironed out too, though there are still some important ones to fix e.g. in Morph search tool.

Enhancements - these will keep rolling in as people use the software and wish for improvements.

So I'd say the software is easily stable enough to do justice to your library.

Thanks
Richard

Robert Pavich

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/58087#Comment_58087

I also agree with you, Robert. The inflammatory beginning was bait for a fire. And yet, we don't have to take the bait.

No...but it helps to get a good answer if a person doesn't come out of the gate using that kind of language...that's all...

I wasn't trying to police those who had expressed their opinion or tell them they shouldn't have. I actually asked everyone to keep stating their opinions and excel still more.

I'm sorry....my comment wasn't directed at you...it was in reference to other threads...I apologize...I should have been more clear...

I want to ask you sincere question. In forum language does putting a smiley face at the end of a question take the sting out of a word like police? If the smiley face means that the whole sentence is just to be taken humorously, I really want to know.

yes yes and yes.... [:D]

You did nothing wrong that I can see...you were polite and stated your opinion...no problem there!

God bless,

bob

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/58269#Comment_58269

If stating an opinion as I did to start this thread:

"Does
this mean after the holiday season the price of an upgrade goes up? In
order to get the current price, will I be forced to buy an upgrade to
version 4 before I am comfortable using it, a product which is very
buggy still and with missing features that I use in version 3? I hope I
am reading this wrong..."

is not only considered inflammatory but trying to bait someone, I apologize. I was not trying to bait someone, I thought it was obvious why someone might think the product is buggy, and it is well-documented that features are missing that people use in version 3. I thought the pricing practice was unfair and I voiced my opinion. I thought that was what community was for.

If I post again I will be much more careful, so that an opinion that others may not agree with is tolerated by all not just some, so as not to create contention in the community.

Scott H. Clark

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/58289#Comment_58289

Well, Don, despite the misunderstanding that come with the written word, I hope you got your answers. The L4 engine is free. You pay for resources only. If you wish to grab a good deal on those resources, grab the current discounted deals. You are correct that the discounted pricing will end at some point. No sale lasts forever, but if you grab the free engine and try it first (even though you won't have some of the new "L4 only" resources), you will see for yourself what is there and can then make whatever decision you are comfortable with.