Microsoft Surface

Vincent Xavier Shaw said:

Michael Childs said:

"After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it.  There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2."

Dead wrong, me?  Michael, this is getting old.  No insult meant.  I love my Surface Pro.  So I'm not insulting your SP2 or denying your joyful experience of it.  Bucks well spent for some.

But for JoshInRi, he has another issue:  heat.  Therefore the heat difference between the original SP and the SP2 are important to being helpful.  I'm plainly stating facts based on objective measurements from a 3rd party German computer laboratory, regarding that heat issue.

Based on that temperature test that I linked to, the SP2 is hotter under full load.  If JoshInRi wants a less hot Surface Pro, the hotter SP2 is not a good suggestion.  If your SP2 is cool to touch in your usage, the SP would be cooler in temp.  If JoshInRi original SP is too hot, the SP2 being hotter would therefore not be a good fit because it is even hotter than his use of SP.  If all variables held constant, this logic holds true.

In my case, it's not hot at all.  And with only $40 spent, the FreedomCase that I suggested earlier should be arriving soon.  I might even opt for the awesome Surface Power Cover version that I plan to pick up this week, if it isn't sold out at my local friendly Microsoft Store.  

Michael Childs said:

Vincent Xavier Shaw said:

Michael Childs said:

Joshua, I have been so disappointed to read of all the problems you first generation Surface Pro has given you.  When one sacrifices to purchase a tool for ministry, it is disappointing for the end result to be so frustrating.  Personally, I could probably live with the 3.5 hour battery, but the heat and the problems just running the software would be too much.

During seminary, I remember loving my 1 hour battery in my portable 5 lb convertible Tablet PC, the HP TX1.  It's heat was so hot, that some reported their graphics processors' heat sinks slipping off.  I opened mine up and applied thermal compound, Artic Silver, no sweat.  It had a "fast" 7200 rpm mechanical hard drive.  It's literally 20 times slower and hotter than my Surface Pro.  Context is everything, right?

Michael Childs said:

One thing that I have concluded, even though the $1300 price tag for a Surface Pro 2 is high - and even out of reach for many - I think one would be better off to wait until he / she can buy a Surface Pro 2 with a 256 Gig HD and 8 Gig of Ram rather than buying the cheaper original Surface Pro.  My experience - other than the high cost - with the Surface Pro 2 has been nothing but positive. Apparently, Microsoft learned much between the original Surface Pro and Surface Pro 2. 

As important as Logos is to us, better a laptop that runs it well than a tablet that runs it poorly.

Your updates and recommendations have probably saved a lot of people a lot of money.  Thanks for the info.

Michael, I respectfully disagree.  The SP2 is not a good suggestion.  Based on my earlier but recent links, thermal tests show the SP2 inferior to the SP.  It's quieter and faster, but it gets hotter under loads.  With SP only $600 now, it's a bargain for a 1.5 lb ultra ultrabook with a real active digitizer.

On the other hand, Android and/or IOS is great for just about everyone.  My Galaxy S4 is much better for many reasons.  I do not favor the gadgetry of clicking around during Bible Class, on irrelevant topics.  Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the Logos goal felicitous serendipity, but that's best on your personal time.  I like Bible study to be about the interaction of the individuals who have prepared ahead, not just fill-in-the-blank stares.  That's another reason why classes benefit from good structure and well-informed order, where students know ahead of time the text to be studied.

At some point, people should be prayerful present as church, not just active busy-ness, but also passively receiving gifts that God is giving.  After all, we have a passive righteousness, and shouldn't our studying somewhat reflect that?

I do use my Greek and Hebrew in multiple windows with commentaries, plus snapping with Kindle, which is why I love the 1080p HD resolution of my Surface Pro.  But in part, this can be also best with simply a Bible and/or smartphone.  My practice so far is all of the above.  haha

Regards,
Vincent

Vincent,

After about 3 months of using the Surface Pro 2 for 5 plus hours a day, I can say with confidence that you are dead wrong about it.  There are no heat issues with my Surface Pro 2.  The digitizer pen for the Surface Pro 2 works great.  It is the only computer I now use, replacing my desktop and my laptop and doing it all better - including Logos 5, editing video, and every task I do.  It handles the load well.  It is by far the best designed computer I have ever used.

That is not an opinion based on any article.  It is based on personal use and heavy use of my Surface Pro.  It is the best tool that I have ever bought, It has made Logos a much better program.

I have taught Bible Studies using the Surface Pro 2 as my Bible (in a leather like cover), and most of my group did not realize that I was not using a paper Bible.  It depends on how one uses it.  I have taken the Surface Pro 2 to a conference, and used Logos with OneNote to take notes during Maxine Dunnam's presentation.  It was a marvelous experience.  Not only was my Logos Bible open, but I took notes by hand in OneNote at the same time, and OneNote also recorded the audio of the lecture.  Then it converted my handwritten notes stop text, and when I tap on the text, it will play back the audio of what Dr. Dunham was saying when I wrote that note.  Of course, credit for most of that belongs to the software - Logos and OneNote, but the Surface Pro 2 ran the software without a flaw.

Simply put, my Surface Pro 2 has wowed me in every way.  I really can't see how ios or Android can compare. 

So I have to respectfully disagree based upon my experience. 

I don't care whether or not you believe me, my friend.  I don't care what experts say.  You can find experts to say anything.

I don't even know what full load means, but I will tell you what I mean.

I know for a fact the Surface Pro 2 in my hands right now can run all day using Logos , Word Pro, and OneNote together, and I feel absolutely no heat problem and hear no annoying fan.   I know because I do it every day.  Well, five days a week, most weeks, and have done it for several months now.  I know this Surface Pro 2 can wirelessly stream a three and half hour Mississippi State Baseball game to my television, and have no heat issues that I can detect.

If experts think otherwise, they are dead wrong, too.  I hold more reliable data in my hands.

Now what am I to believe, my lying eyes and hands, or the experts?

Am I take no offense.  It doesn't matter whether you are insulting my tablet or not.  It does not have hurt feelings, and  I do not care what computer or tablet anyone chooses for themselves.  I am simply sharing my experience.

So, I know you are dead wrong about the Surface Pro 2 and heat issues.  I am sure you are right about many other things.

Vincent,

I owned the SP and had the SP2 for a trial. The SP ran much hotter to the touch than the SP2. I underline because the heat dissipates better on the SP2. It may run as hot or hotter in the benchmarks under load, but the key is whether or not you feel that heat.

Joseph Turner said:

I just purchased a SP (1) recently, and I can honestly say that the heat has never been an issue.  I couldn't be happier with it.

[Y]

Wow, I'm sorry to hear that you are having an issue with heat.  I have an SP2 and it's AWESOME!!! No heat problems whatsoever and I have been using it quite extensively.  It has replaced my laptop and I use it for pretty much everything.  Audio & Video editing included.  It renders video and projects my presentations onto a video projection screen and onto hdmi large screen monitors.  I have had no overheating issues thus far.  This thing is a work-horse.  I love it!  Getting used to working with the small screen took some getting used to but by adjusting the fonts and sizing the apps compensates for that and is helpful.  It's too bad the Logos Vyros app doesn't stretch like every other app does.  It seems Logos products aren't optimized for touch.  Even using a mouse to adjust the slide controls in each box is difficult.  Mainly due to it's very tiny size, even on a larger monitor.  But all of my other apps and programs all run flawlessly.  What an awesome machine.  It's just fantastic! Smartest purchase I've made so far this year.  :-)

Duncan Campbell said:

Has anyone used the Surface Pro to run Logos 5 using a USB 3.0 docking station? One that gives two display outputs for multiple displays. One like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Plugable-UD-3000-Universal-2048x1152-Ethernet/dp/B008N06I2I/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1372875361&sr=1-1&keywords=ud-3000

I just wondered how Logos runs with  USB 3.0 graphics. They are quite expensive to just buy, if the user experience ends up being poor.

Blessings

Duncan

I used this (http://www.amazon.com/Kensington-Universal-Notebook-Docking-Ethernet/dp/B002EREH74/ref=sr_1_4?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1396818561&sr=1-4&keywords=Kensington+Dock) With Win7 on a laptop with USB3 with acceptable results. I have no reason to suspect there would be problems with L5 operating under Win 8.1 with USB3.

Aloha and good evening all

Been pouring over all the posts I can find dealing with Surface Pro 2.  And I've just about convinced myself to go for it. 

Being a computer geek by profession, I know there is no such ting as too much ram or storage.  But the price jump from the 256gb to 512gb is pretty steep at $500. 

so I am looking to you all for your input, thoughts and experiences 

i really want t dump my iPad soon as possible. (wouldn't mind dumping the iPhone as well either)

I chose to take the hit and maximize HD space so I got the 512Gig.

I've had the Surface for a few weeks now and am REALLY enjoying it... it's replaced my laptop completely. I especially am liking the nice crisp HD screen. Beautiful!

And of course, I loooooove having everything with me... full Logos, my stamp collecting software and so forth. Woohoo! [H]

Aloha and good morning once again

Microsoft just announced the new Surface Pro 3.  12-inch display, 2160x1440/215ppi (3x2 aspect ratio).  Weighs less than the Pro 2 and is thinner.  i7 processor with 8gb ram and 256gb ssd is $1549.  Up the ssd to 512gb and the price goes to $1949.  There are also models available with an i3 processor and i5 as well.

You can pre-order now at the Surface Website.

Full blown Logos has always been available on Surface Pro. This not new to just Surface Pro 3. The world is very slowly (VERY SLOWLY) waking up to the fact that Microsoft has actually done what many of us had hoped Apple would have done with the iPad. They have given us a tablet that can replace our laptop. For pastors like me, who are frequently NOT in the church office, this is fantastic news.

Full blown Logos that fits in my motorcycle saddle bag. Just wish I had known that Logos didn't have the "cool" app for Surface RT before I bought it.

Thanks. I think I will like it as well. I think the new 12" screen size along with the new configuration options will provide a nice mobile device that I can use for serious development work, research and reading (including my Bible study using Logos software). I am not a fan of apps (usually too limited), but I love the battery life, size and ease of use of a full-size tablet. I am looking forward to trying the new Surface Pro 3 out. God bless.

Genghis said:

Michael Childs said:

I know the Surface Pro 2 has worked very well for me.

Quick question, are you able to use the onscreen tablet input panel to handwrite text into Logos Notes?  With Win 8.1 it stopped working on my Tablet.

Sorry, I just saw this, and I don't know.  I use OneNote, and it works great.  But I will find out and reply tomorrow.

Todd, it will require you to use an external USB DVD drive. You can pick one up from Amazon for between $15-45. This is a good investment if you have a Surface Pro 3 since many programs still require a DVD drive to install.

Russell E. Hixon said:

I have a Surface Pro 3 and did not see anyway to use the pen to write in Logos notes. I would be more than happy for someone to correct me.

You can't anyway, because it's broken.  See:  https://community.logos.com/forums/p/76689/602683.aspx#602683

I just upgraded from my Surface Pro 2... this thing ... is ... incredible. Ive had many devices, but none are as wonderful as the Surface Pro 3. I highly recommend it. That said, I want a better Logos reading experience. The Windows store app is really bad, and the full Logos 5 is not entirely optimal for reading. I hope that this device jumpstarts the Logos team's development of the Win 8 app.

David Parks said:

I don't think the Apple Fan Boys want to make a windows 8 verson

I don't think it is a case of "Apple Fan Boys" it is just that the Metro interface is so bad. I am using three Windows 8 machines and the first program I installed on each was Start 8. Even MS knows they made a mistake. From what I have read about Windows 9, all non-touch machines will default to traditional mouse/keyboard desktops. It was not been economically justifiable for Logos to spend money on developing a Windows touch interface when so few people have purchased Windows RT machines and those who have Windows 8 machines are using the desktop rather than the Metro interface. I am sure if more people purchase Windows 8 tablets Logos will reconsider.

Keith Larson said:

David Parks said:

I don't think the Apple Fan Boys want to make a windows 8 verson

I don't think it is a case of "Apple Fan Boys" it is just that the Metro interface is so bad. I am using three Windows 8 machines and the first program I installed on each was Start 8. Even MS knows they made a mistake. From what I have read about Windows 9, all non-touch machines will default to traditional mouse/keyboard desktops. It was not been economically justifiable for Logos to spend money on developing a Windows touch interface when so few people have purchased Windows RT machines and those who have Windows 8 machines are using the desktop rather than the Metro interface. I am sure if more people purchase Windows 8 tablets Logos will reconsider.

Keith, I suspect you are right for those with non-touch screens.  But Windows 8 is very nice for my Surface Pro 2.  I hardly think it is a mistake, and I suspect that more and more people will move that direction.

Even in its present non-touch screen form, Logos 5 runs better with my touch screen than it did without.  If I have use it on a non-touch screen, I instinctively now reach up to screen to do something, only to remember, "Oh, yeah, I can't do that on this computer.". Tapping the non-touch screen harder doesn't help.  Am I the only one who does that?

I know LOGOS is a business, and it has to make decisions according to the statistics available. Windows 8.1 platform just isn't being adopted by that many. I do have to wonder, however, if the percentage is a little higher among clergy. I know I have seen a number of other pastors in my area pick up a Surface Pro for their work. I'm not sure what other pastor's lives are like, but between regional meetings and shut-in visits, I frequently find myself doing more of my sermon prep in mall food courts and Starbucks' lobbies than I do in my church office. Prior to getting the Surface Pro 3, I had to either choose the mobility of my Android tablet, or the productivity of my laptop, before leaving the house in the morning. Or, if I couldn't make up my mind, I had to haul both. Really, that was very impractical. My SP3 has really been revolutionary for me. Getting to use full blown LOGOS without having to haul my laptop, and experience the awkwardness of using my laptop while sitting in an armchair at Starbucks, has been wonderful. What has not been wonderful is the very lousy Windows app for LOGOS. With my android, I would easily use it for reading. With the Windows app, if there is a book I really want to read, I am much more likely to order it through Kindle and read it with the Kindle app.

I know I am in the extreme minority, but I think at some point LOGOS will start losing out by not creating a Windows version of the app they have available on iOS and android.

Jeremy wrote: "My SP3 has really been revolutionary for me. Getting to use full blown LOGOS without having to haul my laptop, and experience the awkwardness of using my laptop while sitting in an armchair at Starbucks, has been wonderful. What has not been wonderful is the very lousy Windows app for LOGOS."

I don't think I am tracking with you. If you are using your SP3 and the full blown Logos - what very lousy Windows app are you talking about? Why use an app at all if you can use the full blown Logos Bible Software on your SP3? If you are wanting to read a book, open the book in Logos and press F11 to view it in Reading mode.

I purchased an SP3 with an i5 processor, 8 GB of RAM, and a 256 GB solid state hard drive. Logos runs beautifully on it, and the SP3 is so small and light, I can take it anywhere. Recommend it highly!

I understand your disappointment with Logos. I was frustrated with my iPad because of it's inability to do real work. So the week the Surface 2 came out I went to Best Buy and looked it over. When I saw that It had a Logos app listed in the software store I purchased the Surface 2 with the keyboard. You can imagine how horrified I was when I got it home and installed the Logos app and discovered that it was pretty much worthless. So I now have a Surface 2 and an iPad 64 gig wifi. Having used both for quite some time, I have reached the point that the only time I use the iPad is when I need to use Logos  or read some journals that are only available on the iPad. I agree with comments about how poor the metro interface is on a desktop, but when using it on a Surface it really shines. When I use my iPad I feel like I have stepped into an OS stone age.

If Logos would just enable highlighting and synced notes I would be happy, but it doesn't look like they will do that.  If they would do that I would even use it on my 8.1 desktop when reading books. But I really don't think they are listening to us.

I had an Toshiba Android Tablet before I bought my Microsoft Surface. I use it as I teach and preach and find it much more practical for my needs. Having Microsoft office on the go and the cloud is awesome and android cannot compare. I use the Logos App to read on my surface. I would be extremely happy if Logos would allow it it to sync reading plans and highlight and sync notes as well.[^o)]

Windows tablet sales -- tablets that use the Modern or "metro" interface -- are so low at this time to justify further development of the Modern Logos app. If Logos commits resources to develop the Modern app, they have to take those resources away from other projects. It is a matter of priorities. On the Logos desktop side, we are still looking for Logos to deliver the ability to sync PBBs across all of our mobile devices. I'd personally like Logos to commit resources to make the Logos desktop program to be touch-friendly and enabled. I don't want Logos to waste time and effort on developing programs few people use. Logos has demonstrated in the past that when they see users move toward a particular platform in scalable numbers (Mac, iOS, Android), they'll develop to it.

I use the full Logos 5 on my Surface Pro, and use it hours every day.  It runs so much better than on a desktop.  No going back for me.

Hello,

I am pointed to this thread while searching for the solution to store resources (even a couple of particular books) to Logos App on my Surface RT tablet. I saw there was a promise to add such feature later in the beginning of the thread but the thread is too long for me to trace all the way to the end and the discussion topics are many. Can someone simply give me a quick answer to my questions?

1. Is it possible to download a couple of resources to Surface RT to read offline as of now? 

2. If yes, how can I find the feature (I tried every single way I can imagine but fail)?

3. If not, is there still a plan for it or it has been given up due to the small market share (for that i can give up my hope).

Frederick