WARNING TO LOGOS—slow down

I have already started to cancel orders - and have had to do so for the last few months. Its really made me pick and choose what I want the most. All in all that aspect has probably been healthy; but I hate having to cancel something I gave my word to purchase.

Bruce Dunning

George, I can totally relate to what you are saying. For the first time ever I began to cancel some orders this past month. I'm guessing that perhaps we are not the only ones in this predicament.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589550#Comment_589550

For the past 2 months I have had to dig into my savings to finance my Logos addiction, and it appears that next month will follow suit. I try to restrict my addiction to current resources. This will not continue. Either the pace of publication slows down or I will start cancelling orders.

Actually Logos is not the problem, you are. They are a business and they have to sell to keep things rolling. They will continue to sell whether you cancel orders or not. Remember, you said it yourself is YOUR Logos ADDICTION. Perhaps it's time for you to get some help, because Logos can, indeed, be addictive.

I personally have cancelled several community pricing and a lot of my pre-pubs to fund 3 upgrades (Anglican Silver, Reformed Silver and Spanish "Tesoro" [Treasure] Library). I cancelled those orders being aware that some of those I really didn't need and that with the upgrades my payment plan didn't go over my monthly "book budget." I'm sure you don't need a lesson on finances because you know about your finances, but sometimes, like you said "a Logos addiction" can blind you to just keep spending and spending and the only one getting in trouble is you.

Now go get some counseling...[;)]

DAL

Ps. Maybe you could resell some of the things you don't need on the facebook Logos resale page. A few users are doing that to buy other stuff that they actually need.

Paul-C

I have already started to cancel orders - and have had to do so for the last few months. Its really made me pick and choose what I want the most. All in all that aspect has probably been healthy; but I hate having to cancel something I gave my word to purchase.

Well said! This is my situation too (especially after buying four new base packages in the last few months!)

That said, presumably Logos is rolling out resources so quickly because there are enough people to buy them. As much as it pains us to be left behind with certain resources, more overall sales for Logos means a more sustainable company - which is something we all benefit from. I guess the tension between keeping existing customers happy, whilst also trying to attract new ones, is something most businesses have to face at some level. [:S]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589550#Comment_589550

but I hate having to cancel something I gave my word to purchase.

As I said to George, Logos is a business, it'll continue selling regardless of your individual purchases. They always win. Also, you placing an order and then cancelling does not equal to you not keeping your word because it's something that happens every day. Now unless you told Bob, "Hey I give you my word I will purchase these items," then I think you should ask for wisdom as to when you can actually give "your word" and when not, because certainly, giving your word to purchase something that will put you in a financial bind and in turn make you a poor steward of your money is not something you should be doing or getting yourself into. It would be a sin, not the fact that you give "your word" and then cancel your order but to buy something that will put you in financial hardship - that's not good stewardship. God doesn't want you to do that. So don't feel obligated to purchase something if you don't have the money to buy it just because you placed and order and then cancelled it; because that's pretty much what it is, you placing and then cancelling - it is NOT you giving your word.[:)] And if you have an addiction like George, then seek help; because Logos can, indeed, be addictive.

DAL

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589559#Comment_589559

I'm club President, been there done that wearing the shirt. Who wants to be V.P., Treasurer, and Secretary.

TCBlack

Several months ago I issued a warning to me: Stop!

The free market is a wonderful thing, it will produce everything the consumer will purchase. When the consumer stops purchasing, the free market automatically scales back. After slamming on the brakes, cranking down the emergency brake, and turning off the engine. I'm just glad Logos has other consumers keeping the lights on.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589568#Comment_589568

Quite obviously, a bit of maturity and discretion needs to be exercised here.

I have a friend who disciplined himself by registering and deregistering his credit card before and after every single purchase. Needless to say, that cooled him off quite a bit before hitting those buttons.

If one is to accept all the marketing and blurbs at face value, then there are a of Christians out there who aren't equipped, aren't praying powerfully, and who are missing out on God's potential or revelation one way or another. In the bigger picture, how true could that be?

Anyway, I don't think I'm in a position to hold Logos culpable. They are a business after all. They should only be held responsible for quality issues and material misrepresentations.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589570#Comment_589570

Speak for yourself, John.

DMB

The real issue here isn't 'self-control', normal market principles, etc.

The issue is the price AFTER the CP/PP. Some of these are 90% 'discounted'. I put that in quotes since the final price is quite often exhorbitant.

I often cringe (well sort of) when I recommend a volume to someone (and then happily let him know the price I didn't pay).

Eat your wheaties now, or get a better job.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589573#Comment_589573

What cools me off is why buy stuff if it may well end up in a base package for pennies on the pound?

Evan Boardman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589572#Comment_589572

Ive canceled three pre-pubs and one community pricing. The pre-pubs I can order again without losing out on saving big bucks, but canceling community pricing items you actually lose out alots of savings if you cancel those. Lucky for me it was something that I can do without.

Randy W. Sims

I wish I had better control, to only put on Pre-Pub and CP what I had money to cover. To put money on my "Logos" card at the time I place the orders. That would be smart. But I'm struggling at the moment also. I just put $200 on my card to cover the next two weeks of pre-pubs. I need to add $300 to that to cover my next payment plan deduction. And then I'll need another $250 to cover the following two weeks. I'll likely have to remove some of those.

I can't blame it on Logos as there is a practical way ensure the money is there before ordering, but I do wish they could find a way to plan the releases in a way to spread it thinly for the largest number of bidders. Although, that's not a trivial task either.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589577#Comment_589577

I wish I had better control, to only put on Pre-Pub and CP what I had money to cover. To put money on my "Logos" card at the time I place the orders. That would be smart. But I'm struggling at the moment also. I just put $200 on my card to cover the next two weeks of pre-pubs. I need to add $300 to that to cover my next payment plan deduction. And then I'll need another $250 to cover the following two weeks. I'll likely have to remove some of those.

I can't blame it on Logos as there is a practical way ensure the money is there before ordering, but I do wish they could find a way to plan the releases in a way to spread it thinly for the largest number of bidders. Although, that's not a trivial task either.

The problem is not with the ordering. It is with the release. One never knows when these will be released so it is impossible to plan to have enough on hand to cover the expense. Some seem to sail through from first posting to publication with little time in between while others may languish in "Under Contract" for a year or more.

Lee

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589578#Comment_589578

And yet, who can blame Logos for this? Only someone with a lucid mind and locus standi to boot, to be sure.

There are more protests that resources have been languishing in development. These have more merit (especially if more than one competitor already got it).

The savings of pre-pub versus the unpredictability. Sounds like a fair trade.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589579#Comment_589579

I wouldn't say its an addiction. I have an allowance from my church to spend 100$ a month on titles here. I've managed to keep the cost per title down around 1$ (1.12 to be precise), and that has been from making good use of pre-pub, community pricing and base packages.

I average about 150-200$ a month spent (50-100$ out of my own pocket). All in all I feel I've done well considering my budget (5041 titles now).

Clearer communication regarding the timeline of certain products might lower the rates of bids being canceled on ours is I think the point of the thread. Because in truth, its unrealistic to expect a company to produce less product if the market will support it.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589579#Comment_589579

NA28 apparatus anyone?

I think what's coming off the shelf at Logos might be refined a bit.

Paul C

I have all but ceased my Logos purchases. One of the first steps toward this victory was the practice of having the money on hand when I made a purchase, and marking it "allocated" once the purchase was made. It's not mine to "borrow", No matter how long it takes to actually see the resource.

Ergatees

Yep, I know how it goes. When it rains it pours!

Lots coming through in May. I look over my list carefully to see what I really want.

But, I've been waiting forever for Sophocles. And I refuse to cancel it.

Ergatees

Randy W. Sims

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589578#Comment_589578

The problem is not with the ordering. It is with the release. One never knows when these will be released so it is impossible to plan to have enough on hand to cover the expense.

The problem is with pushing the order button before setting aside the funds to cover it. It's the same problem I have with credit cards, it's way too easy to slide it through without thinking about the payment. It's the same ole buy now, pay later problem. Sometimes it's necessary to take advantage of that "credit" (which is basically what PP & CP are). But most of the time it's just the easy thing to do. And it gets me in to trouble.

I do agree that there are some things Logos could do to ease the pain. Like more advance notice between announcing a ship date and the actual ship date, say 3-4 mos (but folks would complain about the delay then). Book Cache could be made more flexible and useful: allow arbitrary payments into it, show a summary of what the monthly payments into it should be adjusted to in order to cover everything I currently have on pre-pub. As it is I don't use it and have a dedicated card for all my Logos purchases and use it like I wish Book Cache worked (Is anyone using it?).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589588#Comment_589588

I don't use it.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589558#Comment_589558

Ps. Maybe you could resell some of the things you don't need on the facebook Logos resale page. A few users are doing that to buy other stuff that they actually need.

Bite your tongue. I don't sell my children (though I wouldn't mind getting rid of Wiersbe).

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589587#Comment_589587

Yep, I know how it goes. When it rains it pours!

Lots coming through in May. I look over my list carefully to see what I really want.

But, I've been waiting forever for Sophocles. And I refuse to cancel it.

Ergatees

Sophocles isn't scheduled for release yet.

DMB

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589591#Comment_589591

He has a parole hearing in June.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589588#Comment_589588

The problem is not with the ordering. It is with the release. One never knows when these will be released so it is impossible to plan to have enough on hand to cover the expense.

The problem is with pushing the order button before setting aside the funds to cover it. It's the same problem I have with credit cards, it's way too easy to slide it through without thinking about the payment. It's the same ole buy now, pay later problem. Sometimes it's necessary to take advantage of that "credit" (which is basically what PP & CP are). But most of the time it's just the easy thing to do. And it gets me in to trouble.

I do agree that there are some things Logos could do to ease the pain. Like more advance notice between announcing a ship date and the actual ship date, say 3-4 mos (but folks would complain about the delay then). Book Cache could be made more flexible and useful: allow arbitrary payments into it, show a summary of what the monthly payments into it should be adjusted to in order to cover everything I currently have on pre-pub. As it is I don't use it and have a dedicated card for all my Logos purchases and use it like I wish Book Cache worked (Is anyone using it?).

No, that isn't true. I don't use credit cards now, but I have in the past and am familiar with them and how they work. With a credit card you know you will get the bill at the end of the month and have a limited time to pay without penalty so it is possible to plan. With resources which are "Under Contract" you never know when they will be released—so "SURPRISE !."

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589588#Comment_589588

The problem is not with the ordering. It is with the release. One never knows when these will be released so it is impossible to plan to have enough on hand to cover the expense.

I do agree that there are some things Logos could do to ease the pain.

Why not give buyers an extended time period after the release to actually pull the trigger without losing the sale price.

For example, one could delay the purchase of any release (thereby freezing the price) up to six months by putting down, say, a 5% fee. The fee would be refundable upon execution of the purchase, but non-refundable if the purchase is ultimately cancelled.

A system like this would enable customers to smooth out the highs and the lows ... even as Isaiah prophesied,

Let every valley be lifted up,

And every mountain and hill be made low;

And let the rough ground become a plain,

And the rugged terrain a broad valley.

Fasil

Me too,Today I was revising and cancelling some orders!

papa_gowgow

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589596#Comment_589596

A fairly useful treatment for Logos addiction: read more. By which I mean actually read the texts you've bought. Start to finish. The excellent tagging and search options in Logos can blind us to the fact that many of these books were written to be read, not mined. Just a thought.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589596#Comment_589596

The problem is not with the ordering. It is with the release. One never knows when these will be released so it is impossible to plan to have enough on hand to cover the expense.

I do agree that there are some things Logos could do to ease the pain.

Why not give buyers an extended time period after the release to actually pull the trigger without losing the sale price.

For example, one could delay the purchase of any release (thereby freezing the price) up to six months by putting down, say, a 5% fee. The fee would be refundable upon execution of the purchase, but non-refundable if the purchase is ultimately cancelled.

A system like this would enable customers to smooth out the highs and the lows ... even as Isaiah prophesied,

Let every valley be lifted up,

And every mountain and hill be made low;

And let the rough ground become a plain,

And the rugged terrain a broad valley.

I like it though there are undoubtedly details to be worked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCLUhVkCoPE

(‾◡◝)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589602#Comment_589602

The problem is not with the ordering. It is with the release. One never knows when these will be released so it is impossible to plan to have enough on hand to cover the expense.

I do agree that there are some things Logos could do to ease the pain.

Why not give buyers an extended time period after the release to actually pull the trigger without losing the sale price.

For example, one could delay the purchase of any release (thereby freezing the price) up to six months by putting down, say, a 5% fee. The fee would be refundable upon execution of the purchase, but non-refundable if the purchase is ultimately cancelled.

A system like this would enable customers to smooth out the highs and the lows ... even as Isaiah prophesied,

Let every valley be lifted up,

And every mountain and hill be made low;

And let the rough ground become a plain,

And the rugged terrain a broad valley.

I like it though there are undoubtedly details to be worked out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCLUhVkCoPE

Details are Bob's department.

FWIW: My favorite rendition ...

(but I enjoyed your link, too!)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589604#Comment_589604

FWIW: My favorite rendition ...

(but I enjoyed your link, too!)

That's the version I have as well, but Pinnock is good and is on YouTube.

Sogol

I always thought it would be helpful if Logos allowed you to lock-in a new resource's price for some period of time (6 months? 1 year? 3 years?) by placing a modest deposit down (5%? 10%?) at the time the product first ships.

You could get the resource if you like for the lock-in price at any point during the period by paying the outstanding balance (or initiating a payment plan). You could request a refund of the deposit at any time (though you would then lose the option to purchase at the lock-in price), or the deposit would be returned to you automatically if the period expires without you purchasing the resource or requesting a refund.

I think this strikes a reasonably fair balance between the interests of Logos and its customers. Logos would not lose sales to those who decide they can't buy a new resource because they can't afford it at its initial shipment date, and Logos gets at least some evidence of commitment on behalf of customers because customers must be willing to hand over cash to lock-in a price. Customers get the option to smooth out the timing of their purchases of new resources without having to always purchase on the first shipment date for fear of losing the discounted pricing.

Seems like a win-win to me, or at least a better solution than the way things work now.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589590#Comment_589590

Ps. Maybe you could resell some of the things you don't need on the facebook Logos resale page. A few users are doing that to buy other stuff that they actually need.

Bite your tongue. I don't sell my children (though I wouldn't mind getting rid of Wiersbe).

LOL you're funny. By the way, which titles/collection from "Wiersbe, the unWanted Child" were you thinking of getting rid of?

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589615#Comment_589615

Ps. Maybe you could resell some of the things you don't need on the facebook Logos resale page. A few users are doing that to buy other stuff that they actually need.

Bite your tongue. I don't sell my children (though I wouldn't mind getting rid of Wiersbe).

LOL you're funny. By the way, which titles/collection from "Wiersbe, the unWanted Child" were you thinking of getting rid of?

DAL

The problem is that I can't get rid of Wiersbe since his works were part of a base collection. I'm stuck with them. [:(]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589628#Comment_589628

Ps. Maybe you could resell some of the things you don't need on the facebook Logos resale page. A few users are doing that to buy other stuff that they actually need.

Bite your tongue. I don't sell my children (though I wouldn't mind getting rid of Wiersbe).

LOL you're funny. By the way, which titles/collection from "Wiersbe, the unWanted Child" were you thinking of getting rid of?

DAL

The problem is that I can't get rid of Wiersbe since his works were part of a base collection. I'm stuck with them.

Well, good luck and try to enjoy your unwanted child. The ones that come in a base package are the ones that are harder to get rid of.

Milkman

Guy & gals. Let's face it. Some of us have the problem of spending way too much on Logos. Not their fault, but ours.

AS A MATTER OF FACT - I'M HIDING IN MY OFFICE RIGHT NOW! SPENT WAYYYY TOOOO MUCH ON THE WEEKEND. HIDING FROM MY WIFE AS I SHEEPISH TREAD SOFTLY THROUGHOUT THE HOUSE.

IN THE DOG HOUSE - AGAIN!!!

mm.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589697#Comment_589697

IN THE DOG HOUSE - AGAIN!!!

mm.

You need a bigger house brother.

Milkman

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589701#Comment_589701

Lynden - You have no idea brother! That's just a picture of my butt getting ready to be booted.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589705#Comment_589705

Since I don't know when a resource is going to be released (3 months or 18 months), I order a resource if it looks interesting. However, in a month that has a lot of resources shipping (like May) I find myself cancelling quite a few. For example, I have almost $400 scheduled to ship, which is way outside my budget, so I will be going through the list and only getting the ones I really want.

Ronald Quick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589731#Comment_589731

I'm not sure how it would work, but I do like the idea of being able to lock in a price for a limited time and purchase it later.

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589733#Comment_589733

I'm not sure how it would work, but I do like the idea of being able to lock in a price for a limited time and purchase it later.

A good solution in general is to pay when you order like this:

Set up a paypal (or similar) account.

Set up a paypal visa/mastercard tied to that account.

When you place a prepub - give them your paypal visa number and load that ammount into paypal.

Walk away.

When the order finally pumps through the money is already there.

It's great in theory...

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589749#Comment_589749

I'm not sure how it would work, but I do like the idea of being able to lock in a price for a limited time and purchase it later.

A good solution in general is to pay when you order like this:

Set up a paypal (or similar) account.

Set up a paypal visa/mastercard tied to that account.

When you place a prepub - give them your paypal visa number and load that ammount into paypal.

Walk away.

When the order finally pumps through the money is already there.

It's great in theory...

I can't tie up $5000.00 for any period of time while waiting for an item to ship.

Matthew C Jones

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589749#Comment_589749

give them your paypal visa number and load that ammount into paypal.

Walk away.

This won't work if you also have an eBay addiction.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589749#Comment_589749

Logos offers the chance to pay in advance with

Book Cache: Monthly Subscription

-Dan

mike

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589756#Comment_589756

I offer money-management counseling for Logos users who has problems via webcam.

It doesn't cost very expensive, just enough to cover my book expenses.

Let me help you ......

TCBlack

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589751#Comment_589751

I can't tie up $5000.00 for any period of time while waiting for an item to ship.

At least it would be earning interest. A pathetic level of interest. But interest nonetheless.

LOL

I hear you George. At the moment I can't tie up $50.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/589761#Comment_589761

I hear you George. At the moment I can't tie up $50.

Similar boat, but I am also making a monthly payment to cover previous large purchases. But for the more sane the Book Cache: Monthly Subscription is a good plan. Yes I would not start contributing for a prepub purchase until it was under contract, but that being said if you had several of the large sets coming up (for me the only big pricey one coming up in a more immediate release time frame is Eerdmans Commentary Collection (13 vols.) since it doesn't appear NIB is close to being worked on, despite hopes offered me in an email months back). Putting out $30 a month could really soften the blow of the $285....

-Dan

“When I have a little money, I buy books; and if I have any left, I buy food and clothes.” ― Desiderius Erasmus