This thread is the hardware subforum. The speed issues

Thank You beforehand for the hardware help You offer! Much appreciated and I hope interesting and relevant questions can be posted here.

I can't get Logos to respond quickly with quite old or rather slow low budget CPU:s combined with either a 5,400 rpm hybrid drive with 8GB SSD part or a 2012 SSD (the computer with the SSD is particularly outdated). Both are dual core and Logos hangs up when I click the library button.

Because of speed issues and limited RAM (3GB, 4GB or 8GB doesn't seem enough, just bought one with 9,5GB but I doubt I afford to keep it and it's desktop and I would have preferred laptop - the 9,5GB computer was intended as a birthday gift together with a few books: REB, CEB, Pre-Summer package, and some Accordance resources, but she left me) I have to keep two computers running side-by-side, which also helps seeing more than one software open on monitors - I don't have any large monitor yet and won't be buying for some time until I really need. Because of the multiple problems having several computers seems to be the right solution for me, also helps to separate schoolwork from other things, and a third computer for the utilization of other Logos and Accordance books that have nothing to do with the class/test I'm taking. I'm sure I would get maximally $40-$45 minus the ad fee if I would sell my oldest still running laptop. Not that it's that bad, but the keyboard doesn't work so an external keyboard is needed.

Since we have a TV license fee in this country for owning a computer of any type, smartphone, tablet, internet connection (even if without any hardware whatsoever to connect to it), spare monitor (even without the computer itself), or TV, I have to hide computers if someone rings the doorbell since it can be the TV license fee surveillance men. Therefore I can't keep many desktops constantly inside my apartment and small desktop computers seem more expensive and many times with inadequate cooling upgrade possibilities.

Over here we possibly have highest VAT, 25%, and my finances will stay at the same low level. So I have to compromise somehow no matter what I want. It also affects prices for used parts and computers.

Also, since Dual Disks (there's one with 120GB SSD and 1TB HDD sold over here which as a single unit fits a single 2.5" internal bay in a laptop) seem to be the best thing available for laptops, defragmenting the HDD (not the SSD of course) seems to be necessary for many years to come.

When formatting a disk, it seems the best to change the standard 8kB allocation unit sectors to 16kB or perhaps even 32kB. Do You think an older computer will cope with 32kB? If You don't know I'll use 16kB on the oldest computer and 32kB on the best one I can afford when/if formatting.

I experience fragmentation and was thinking of how to use Defraggler. Fragmentation may affect the opening of the Logos library if it's large. It seems like a careful software so it runs a bit slow, especially with many other softwares open simultaneously. How much RAM do You think it consumes? I was thinking whether using it in the evening when tired but still wanting to work at the computer adds much incentive to getting a AMD quad core laptop, or whether it's the best to just use several computers side-by-side (which would leave the problem that perhaps the things I want to work with late that evening are still open on the computer that needs to be defragmented)?

Typing and the letters showing up with a tiny delay annoys me a little bit, in Chrome.
Also thinking of whether I should buy the extra quad core laptop to be able to run both BitDefender-antivirus and Malwarebytes actively searching with the highest security settings. An example of a laptop: http://www.blocket.se/uppsala/Samsung_i_toppskick___AMD_Quad__8GB_RAM__1TB_53572397.htm?ca=11&w=2 $524 ... it's a rather old ad. I haven't got hold of the seller yet but not made many phone calls yet. What do You think of it? If it's not longer sold, should I look for an equivalent one with AMD? Anyone know of a good laptop CPU benchmark site relevant for the things Bible Study Softwares do, I'm tired of trying to Google one? EDIT: this seems like an OK site, at least it also gives the technology details which would be bothersome to look up separately, but I don't know how relevant exactly the benchmark is: http://processors.findthebest.co.uk/

EDIT2: And no it is not as simple as just to look at the price, for example there a 449 laptop over with 1.3GHz Core 2 Duo. For the same price on a somewhat nearby island to which You go by ferry to take a vacation there's a used laptop like this one for sale, notice quad core and 1600x900 pixel monitor: http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?e=1670057 - what do You think of it, btw? The CPU in it is approximately like this one: http://processors.findthebest.co.uk/l/1072/AMD-A6-3600. How do You think it would compare to: http://www.blocket.se/uppsala/Samsung_i_toppskick___AMD_Quad__8GB_RAM__1TB_53572397.htm?ca=11&w=2 which is in the same price range? Do You think these CPU:s are better than Intel i5 450M which is a dual core from 2010?: http://processors.findthebest.co.uk/l/35/Intel-i5-450M.

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N/A

Well the surveillance men did ring the doorbell once so far, he said. Unix did open the door but not quickly enough for them to enter, the man had gone, but another of them (seems plausible that they are two men since it's a big building with many apartments) was talking to a neighbour of his - why he knows for sure what those men were. So it's not a joke, having to pay a TV license would cost Unix more than his books have cost and I highly doubt he watches any TV ever since he early on told that he doesn't have one.

Can You imagine how difficult it would be to ever get rid of a TV license fee if having been caught?

NB.Mick

Since we have a TV license fee in this country for owning a computer of any type, smartphone, tablet, internet connection (even if without any hardware whatsoever to connect to it), spare monitor (even without the computer itself), or TV, I have to hide computers if someone rings the doorbell since it can be the TV license fee surveillance men.
I will include a picture

This.is.not.funny.

I will report your post as abusive.

Actually, Germany has just this year switched from the same egregious system Unix describes (mandatory TV licence for everybody who owns a device that theoretically could be used to watch TV, with surveillance agents of the government agency running around and trying to search citizen's homes for such devices) to a system where simply every household (and business- that was their incentive to switch) has to pay TV licence, even if they live on social welfare.

Andy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601093#Comment_601093

Actually, Germany has just this year switched from the same egregious system Unix describes (mandatory TV licence for everybody who owns a device that theoretically could be used to watch TV, with surveillance agents of the government agency running around and trying to search citizen's homes for such devices) to a system where simply every household (and business- that was their incentive to switch) has to pay TV licence, even if they live on social welfare.

As crazy as it sounds, the UK had very similar legislation to that described by Unix (although no longer vigorously enforced).

This.is.not.funny.

I agree entirely.

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601079#Comment_601079

A, if you truly are Unix' friend you should persuade him to be less concerned about the door bell, and more concerned about what he writes on the internet. There is no need to visit his flat to find out how many computers he own, a few minutes with google will reveal that. He's written numerous posts under his own name telling as much, and several admitting that he's deliberately dodging the fee. It's not very wise to confess to a crime on the internet...

Of course, an even better advice would be to tell him not to commit the fraud in the first place.

And as for you, aren't you supposed to be payed by the state or county or something? Be careful that you don't get yourself into trouble, encouraging something illegal.

Mike Pettit

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601124#Comment_601124

Breaking the law is immoral, and with post after post has this guy admits doing it again and again in various ways, it is this that is not funny.

Dave Hooton

When formatting a disk, it seems the best to change the standard 8kB allocation unit sectors to 16kB or perhaps even 32kB. Do You think an older computer will cope with 32kB? If You don't know I'll use 16kB on the oldest computer and 32kB on the best one I can afford when/if formatting.

If running Win XP or later format the disk as NTFS where the default allocation unit is 4KB for disks up to 16 TB (16,384 G. FAT32 is probably OK for disk/partitions up to 64 GB, with a cluster size/allocation unit of 32 KB.

I experience fragmentation and was thinking of how to use Defraggler. Fragmentation may affect the opening of the Logos library if it's large. It seems like a careful software so it runs a bit slow, especially with many other softwares open simultaneously. How much RAM do You think it consumes? I was thinking whether using it in the evening when tired but still wanting to work at the computer adds much incentive to getting a AMD quad core laptop, or whether it's the best to just use several computers side-by-side (which would leave the problem that perhaps the things I want to work with late that evening are still open on the computer that needs to be defragmented)?

In Settings >> Options choose the Quick Defrag tab and have Custom settings of "Have more than: 1 fragment" and "Are smaller than: 2500 MB" (where 2500 MB covers your largest index file in Logos). Ensure you have at least 20% free space on your drive/partition (this affects speed). Ensure no user application is running (especially Logos). Then use Quick Defrag in the Action menu.

Silent Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601124#Comment_601124

A, if you truly are Unix' friend you should persuade him to be less concerned about the door bell, and more concerned about what he writes on the internet. There is no need to visit his flat to find out how many computers he own, a few minutes with google will reveal that. He's written numerous posts under his own name telling as much, and several admitting that he's deliberately dodging the fee. It's not very wise to confess to a crime on the internet...

[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]

fgh

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601535#Comment_601535

Congratulations, Unix. Your TV license problems are over. The highest court just ruled that computers are not TV's.

N/A

EDIT: I posted at the same time as fgh. After having read her reply the remaining question seems to be whether Unix needs an additional better laptop in Gk class or not or whether he should keep the desktops instead?

Anyone know of a good laptop CPU benchmark site relevant for the things Bible Study Softwares do, I'm tired of trying to Google one? EDIT: this seems like an OK site, at least it also gives the technology details which would be bothersome to look up separately, but I don't know how relevant exactly the benchmark is: http://processors.findthebest.co.uk/
EDIT2: ...

A new ad from 5 hours ago has this computer: http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/4291-4BG for $585 according to the currency exchange rate at this moment.
It has a 2 core, 4 thread CPU which consumes 35W, S-ATA III interface (but the 160GB SSD it may perhaps be S-ATA II but it probably S-ATA III as it's Intel).

Pos
90

Intel Core i7-2640M

L2-cache 512KB
L3-cache 4MB

FSB /QPI ?

W
35

MHz 2800 ‑ 3500

2/4

Cinebench
R10 32Bit Single

4443⁹

Cinebench
R10 32Bit Multi

9778⁹

SuperPI 1M

11⁶

SuperPI 2M

26⁶

wPrime 32

15.14⁵

wPrime 1024
Intel Core i7-2640M / wPrime 2.0x
Based on 5 benchmark(s): 478.5, 482.527, 489, 494, 523.632
avg:493.5, median: 489, std dev: 15.96

489⁵

Dhrystone

64545⁴

Whetstone

39135⁴

Ad doesn't specify in what shape the battery is, but the technical specs for it are excellent. Installed RAM 4GB, maximum RAM 16GB. 2 slots. Monitor 12.5" - which is marginally larger than Unix's oldest laptop.
Windows 8 64-bit. Probably upgraded from Windows 7, but would need to ask the seller whether that's the case.
Light weight 1.67kg = 3.68 lb.

Is the above a better purchase than a slightly cheaper quad-core AMD laptop (after cost for ferry) which might still be with S-ATA II, which has better graphics and more inches monitor?

NB.Mick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601632#Comment_601632

Congratulations, Unix. Your TV license problems are over. The highest court just ruled that computers are not TV's.

Seems you got some sensible judges up there (ha, double meaning:-) But they set up a large signpost for those who want to collect these licences:

The law stated that the fee would be applicable on any "device meant to receive the transmission or retransmission of TV programmes, even if the equipment can be used for other means". The court on Friday ruled that a computer, however, should not count as such a device. While computers can receive television signals, they are not specifically designed to do so and it is not their key purpose - thus exempting them from the fee.

The court referred to the television license as a "cumbersome responsibility", and stated that the fee cannot be imposed on computers without "clear support from the law".

Basically it says: "Dear legislators, if you want something to fall under the law then write the law so that it does." Germany's law read something like "capable of" instead of "meant to" and our TV authority could happily harrass people with the approval of our highest court.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/601657#Comment_601657

Since I started this thread I have bought both another desktop and just about buying another laptop (have booked it from the seller, a private person).
The desktop, (no brand built by the seller 4 years ago) has a pretty nice real quad core CPU which probably was high-end when it came quite a while ago with 6MB of L2 cache, 2.5GHz clock speed, PassMark CPU Mark 3,191, PassMark CPU Mark Single Thread Rating: 1,064 and consumes 95 Watt: http://processors.findthebest.co.uk/l/1132/Intel-Q9300 I'm removing and hopefully selling the RAM and buying 8GB for it, it uses DDR3. The graphics supports DirectX 10 and consumes a lot of power. Upgrading the graphics card would cost $44 - I'm not sure it's worth the cost but would be an improvement? It has two 7,200 rpm HDD which have been in use for two years each having 16MB cache. It uses DVI so I had to buy a monitor and only afforded 1280*1024 pixels which I got for $20½.

The laptop costs even a little less ($295 but I bought a Windows 8.1 license earlier on) than the desktop and is an HP Elitebook. Same brand as my current low-budget laptop. The CPU is from '10 Q1 and has four threads as well and is newer, the benchmark results using two threads are slightly better than the desktop especially for single core operations (Geekbench 32-bit Score 4,034, PassMark CPU Mark Single Thread Rating 1,082), but will perform worse multitasking, and consumes a maximum of 25 Watt. It probably has a spare slot for RAM, I'm upgrading to 8GB. It has the 5,400 rpm HDD with which it shipped, but thanks to the construction it should take a bit of vibration without getting damaged. 6-cell battery 55Wh, 9-cell can be bought. AC adapter 65 Watt. The same battery interface is still used in many current models:

Before there's any errors I will copy everything from the old drives to new drives which will be either hybrid drive or SSD, or when it comes to the laptop dual drive would be an option.

Summary: thanks to waiting a few weeks I got a decent laptop compared to what was offered earlier on, and the paid all I had for a desktop. I know which technologies VMware Player 5 supports, I have had it installed on AMD - tested both Vista and XP, hope to buy a W7 Home Premium license for the VMware Player in the future, so it will run fine on both these computers and adequately on my current laptop. If I would pay for virtualisation software (as I will be using Windows 8.1 on both computers), which software would You recommend?

I'm not selling any computers other than N/A's. Will be using WMware Player 5 with XP on the current laptop as well as install Libronix/Logos 3 directly in the Windows 7 it has.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608505#Comment_608505

hope to buy a W7 Home Premium license for the VMware Player in the future,

Sounds like you have it all straightened out, but why would you run Windows 7 on the virtual machine that is already running on a computer running 8.1, which is pretty close to Windows 7 if you run in desktop mode?

My machine has Windows 8.1, but I run VMware with Windows XP on it to run software that will not run under Vista/7/8.1.

Paul C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608542#Comment_608542

but why would you run Windows 7 on the virtual machine that is already running on a computer running 8.1

I think the more pertinent question is: Why would you ask why? [:P]

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608572#Comment_608572

bump! Is there anyone else with questions?

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609003#Comment_609003

bump! Is there anyone else with questions?

Wow, ok.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608572#Comment_608572

but why would you run Windows 7 on the virtual machine that is already running on a computer running 8.1
I think the more pertinent question is: Why would you ask why?

I guess I am sorry I did.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608542#Comment_608542

I have a Gk vocabulary flashcards software - it says it requires Vista 64-bit or XP 32-bit - and I would like to have it installed on as many of the computers that I will carry to uni, I would like to install as many Libronix/Logos 3 installations as possible, as well as Logos 4.6c once, and I have Pradis (just one book: NIVAC GJn):

but why would you run Windows 7 on the virtual machine that is already running on a computer running 8.1?

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609061#Comment_609061

I have a Gk vocabulary flashcards software - it says it requires Vista 64-bit or XP 32-bit - and I would like to have it installed on as many of the computers that I will carry to uni, I would like to install as many Libronix/Logos 3 installations as possible, as well as Logos 4.6c once, and I have Pradis (just one book: NIVAC GJn):
but why would you run Windows 7 on the virtual machine that is already running on a computer running 8.1?

Ok, if that's the case, I would still opt for the oldest OS that will work for your purpose, XP. I use the old Parsons software Greek Tutor and Hebrew Tutor. They only work under XP, so that is why I use it. I also used it recently for my Logos 3 to sync licenses. Vista is very similar to Windows 7 and Windows 8, so I would think you would be better off with XP on your virtual machine. Of course, now that support for XP has dropped, you will have limitations, but you would already know that.

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609104#Comment_609104

I could do both. XP in VMware Player 5, and also W7 in some virtualisation engine - which one would be the best choice? There is a W7 Ultimate license, unused, in an ad, "used", right now. I would prefer if these would function for quite some time - I want years to pass without the need of focusing on software and a decade without buying more hardware.
With that combination I would be able to install everything:

Vista is very similar to Windows 7 and Windows 8, so I would think you would be better off with XP on your virtual machine. Of course, now that support for XP has dropped, you will have limitations, but you would already know that.

Joseph Turner

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609162#Comment_609162

I think Vista/Windows 7/Windows 8.1 are similar enough that software that will work on one will work on all three; however, XP is very different, so XP is the only operating system that you should have to run in the virtual machine. I would either save your extra Windows 7 for future use, or go ahead and install it as the main operating system on one of your machines (if one has Windows 8.1 and you would rather have 7).

Keep in mind, with every operating system you install in the virtual machine, you are using hard drive space, and I think running Windows 7 over Windows 8.1 is just going to be redundant.

Paul C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609181#Comment_609181

I'm writing a new song called "Why ask Why". Want to hear it?

Unix

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609200#Comment_609200

OK, so if anyone has any own hardware configuration thoughts/questions, they are welcome to bump this thread and have people answer here! That's how I intended this thread - I'm sorry that I didn't say that in the OP just the thread title. Preferably though Windows 8.1 -machines with all Windows updates, both because that's what I'll be using the most for the next about 9-10 years, and because it seems to be what most people choose if they buy a new/used computer these Days, whether laptop or desktop. And when Windows 9 comes out many will be more than willing to sell their used or new computers with Windows 8.1 just to change machines, so the prices will drop. So just keep posting about Windows 8.1 machines!
(When I bought my Windows 8.1 non-OEM not-upgrade-only license (with DVDs for both 32-bit and 64-bit) as a precaution this Summer, I got it fairly cheap, about $88½ used. Just had to activate it over phone when I installed yesterday. I'm not familiar with the prices for used copies elswhere though but I doubt the prices are higher. Windows 7 licenses are the same price or at best marginally lower for Windows 7 Professional as there are some who prefer the old GUI.)