to cemetary, postponing starting Gk by 1 year?

I just got the notice from university that I have been admitted to cemetary

YES! Definitely! If I were notified I had been admitted to the cemetary, I would absolutely cancel my Greek studies. [:D] >>>

Post-Haste, To avoid having to do it Posthumously.

DominicM

Can I prepare on my own now for a month + in the Summer 2015 for Gk class?
I have these books:

Yes, but you may not have time.. ask seminary which book they use, the others will give you a overview, but may do more short term damage if they teach a different method..

DAL

I just got the notice from university that I have been admitted to cemetary...

Oh my goodness, are you gonna die or just work with dead people? LOL Sorry, I had to throw that in there. By the way, is "Cemetery" not cemetary; unless that's the British way of spelling it or unless it's something entirely different than what I'm thinking - pardon my ignorance. [:P]

You know what they say, "Anticipation of death is worse than death itself." Steven Seagal LOL

DAL

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608798#Comment_608798

By the way, is "Cemetery" not cemetary; unless that's the British way of spelling it or unless it's something entirely different than what I'm thinking - pardon my ignorance.

You know what they say, "Anticipation of death is worse than death itself." Steven Seagal LOL

Unless it's Stephen King:

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608798#Comment_608798

having just completed my second semester of Greek, I suggest only studying greek in advance if you know the title the professor will use. Contact the school, and then pick a greek professor, ask him what book, and then study it.

Greek has a lot of grammar to memorize and while memorizing some of it may be helpful, you may just over complicate things by learning things in a different order. IE maybe you cover 1st, then 2nd then 3rd declension nouns together, or maybe you learn 1st and 2nd in first semester, and third in second (which was how I learned), or maybe you learn verbs first, or, or, or, or... You get the idea.

Sean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608815#Comment_608815

I know English is not your first language, but I believe the word you are looking for is "seminary."

If not, and you really think it is better instead to say "cemetary" every single time, I would suggest: not to go.

Silent Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608831#Comment_608831

[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608831#Comment_608831

Studying beforehand makes things much easier. If you have the funds to take an online course I suggest the Institute of Biblical Greek: http://www.biblicalgreek.org/classes/web/BegWC.php#time

Great course! I took it as a refresher and had great fun.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608831#Comment_608831

If not, and you really think it is better instead to say "cemetary" every single time, I would suggest: not to go.

George Somsel jokingly calls it cemetery every time he mentions it too, and nobody corrects him. And English is his native language. He's joking and we all know it. It's an in-joke. Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith, though it doesn't have to if you keep up your spiritual disciplines.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608840#Comment_608840

though it doesn't have to if you keep up your spiritual disciplines.

Amen!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608831#Comment_608831

I know English is not your first language, but I believe the word you are looking for is "seminary."

Okay guys give Unix a break. George insists he went to cemetery and George is never. wrong. [:P]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608815#Comment_608815

Greek has a lot of grammar to memorize and while memorizing some of it may be helpful, you may just over complicate things by learning things in a different order. IE maybe you cover 1st, then 2nd then 3rd declension nouns together, or maybe you learn 1st and 2nd in first semester, and third in second (which was how I learned), or maybe you learn verbs first, or, or, or, or... You get the idea.

I don't follow your logic - what difference does it make what order you learn the grammar -- or whether you learn grammar as you read or independently? However, I do agree with your conclusion that you should know what text the Greek professor uses so that you will learn the same terminology as you will need later.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608840#Comment_608840

Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith

Interesting - never heard it had that reputation before. I need to quiz my daughter-in-law.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608859#Comment_608859

Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith

Interesting - never heard it had that reputation before.

A quick Google search shows that it's a very common theme:

David Thomas

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608858#Comment_608858

Greek has a lot of grammar to memorize and while memorizing some of it may be helpful, you may just over complicate things by learning things in a different order. IE maybe you cover 1st, then 2nd then 3rd declension nouns together, or maybe you learn 1st and 2nd in first semester, and third in second (which was how I learned), or maybe you learn verbs first, or, or, or, or... You get the idea.

I don't follow your logic - what difference does it make what order you learn the grammar -- or whether you learn grammar as you read or independently? However, I do agree with your conclusion that you should know what text the Greek professor uses so that you will learn the same terminology as you will need later.

When I did my undergrad Greek the Professor used a deductive approach - learn the conjugations, declensions and vocabulary then find how they are used in Scripture. When I studied the 2nd time (25 years later) in Graduate School the Professor used an inductive approach (get into the text within the first few lessons). The Pedagogy for both approaches is quite different. If a student has drawn conclusions about what the "best" answer is before the Professor's pedagogical approach asks for it, then the student may short circuit the learning process.

I have seen examples in the forum of Unix recommending a preferred translation before he has even studied the languages. I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.

I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment. As Carson spells out in Exegetical Fallacies, there are too may examples of people assigning meanings to the text based on a little understanding of the Languages that are different than one reads when he understands gentle nuances of the language.

Since Unix has been provided with the means to sit under the instruction of trained professors, it would be good to allows those professors to do what they were trained to do.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608855#Comment_608855

Okay guys give Unix a break. George insists he went to cemetery and George is never. wrong.

OK, Unix, Take a break. If you want to attend the cemetary, That's fine with me. Furthermore, If you want to emulate George, That also will be your choice.

Sean

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608863#Comment_608863

I have seen examples in the forum of Unix recommending a preferred translation before he has even studied the languages. I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.

I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment. As Carson spells out in Exegetical Fallacies, there are too may examples of people assigning meanings to the text based on a little understanding of the Languages that are different than one reads when he understands gentle nuances of the language.

Since Unix has been provided with the means to sit under the instruction of trained professors, it would be good to allows those professors to do what they were trained to do.

I had a post ready but the internet ate it. 'Twas probably for the better. David said it better anyway.

"Cemetery" was funny, occasionally, about 50 years ago; one of the first rules of humor is "don't run the joke into the ground." It might get a pass from a graduate; from a prospective student it represents a very poor attitude to begin with. There are problems with seminary but also the people who attend there and their hangups, preconceptions, and unrealistic expectations. To a large extent, you get out of it what you put into it.

Also, as a caretaker for the dead, I have to say that some of us are genuinely trying to serve God and the church this way. A little politeness (i.e., not reflexively disparaging our calling) would be appreciated.

(Putting in a *smiles* to show I'm not mortally offended. Also ending my hijack here--not that the OP has much to do with Logos Bible Software either.)

(Logos Bible Software is excellent, BTW. [:D])

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608863#Comment_608863

The Pedagogy for both approaches is quite different. If a student has drawn conclusions about what the "best" answer is before the Professor's pedagogical approach asks for it, then the student may short circuit the learning process.

For that reason I agree that Unix should wait until class begins to study in earnest. My professor used the inductive method. I would have wasted my time had I prepared by studying the deductive method. [:O]

Zondervan Biblical Languages Collection (35 vols.) is a good collection if you are not going to seminary.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608874#Comment_608874

David and Super Tramp,

Your experience does not mirror mine but I'll defer to your experience in seminary. South and Central Asian languages in Graduate School are decidedly different.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608883#Comment_608883

I learned Japanese the same way I learned Greek. My father learned Japanese by a different method which probably explains why he became much more proficient than I.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608858#Comment_608858

MJ seems like it would be easier memorizing the things you are going to learn to use, rather than things that you aren't going to learn to use.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608859#Comment_608859

Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith

Interesting - never heard it had that reputation before. I need to quiz my daughter-in-law.

It is a long standing joke... My pastor mentioned that they called it that when he was in seminary decades ago.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608863#Comment_608863

I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.
I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment.

I can relate here.

Having a BA in Biblical Studies causes one to have pretty much decided where one stands. Thus repeating some of the same classes has caused me to be less teachable and certainly less engaged in certain classes (most recently a history class...). Its something I've been praying about - that I will be teachable even especially when I think I know.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608869#Comment_608869

I would actually be very interested in the burials part, rather than weddings. I would eventually like to do as few weddings as possible especially avoid the homosexual weddings although I don't expect to necessarily be able to avoid the latter as they are everywhere. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that. The denomination that offers most of the jobs over here (not in this City, but in rural areas to which I might be forced to move), has a strict policy that every priest has to wed homosexual couples and the seminary teaches that a lot in some of the last classes.

What I expect from the studies are that some parts of it such as Homiletics and Sociology of Religion will be challenging and that a lot of students will know their Bibles better than me (what I mean is that they will have memorized more verses), that there will be a lot of denominational stuff to counter, and that they will unfortunately in most classes teach very little from the Deuterocanonicals such as Ecclesiasticus. My strengths are perhaps that I've had a larger book-budget than the average student so I hope I will be able to write somewhat nice papers, that I know what doctrines I believe, that I may be more mature than some of the other students. But some of my weaknesses will be that I won't have any budget to go on short-term missions, that at this point I don't always feel as OK as others when it comes to things such as witnessing and evangelizing (if they start to talk about that in the corridor), and that no-one in the seminary goes to the same Church as me:

"Cemetery" was funny, occasionally, about 50 years ago; one of the first rules of humor is "don't run the joke into the ground." It might get a pass from a graduate; from a prospective student it represents a very poor attitude to begin with. There are problems with seminary but also the people who attend there and their hangups, preconceptions, and unrealistic expectations. To a large extent, you get out of it what you put into it.
Also, as a caretaker for the dead, I have to say that some of us are genuinely trying to serve God and the church this way. A little politeness (i.e., not reflexively disparaging our calling) would be appreciated.

(Putting in a *smiles* to show I'm not mortally offended. Also ending my hijack here--not that the OP has much to do with Logos Bible Software either.)

(Logos Bible Software is excellent, BTW. ):
I have seen examples in the forum of Unix recommending a preferred translation before he has even studied the languages. I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.
I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment. As Carson spells out in Exegetical Fallacies, there are too may examples of people assigning meanings to the text based on a little understanding of the Languages that are different than one reads when he understands gentle nuances of the language.

Since Unix has been provided with the means to sit under the instruction of trained professors, it would be good to allows those professors to do what they were trained to do.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608840#Comment_608840

Perhaps I'm wrong about myself, but in the long term what would seem to be killing my faith would be lack of studies and lack of discipline to read. I haven't always studied a lot or read a lot of books so I miss that. When I'm for example on christianforums.com I often avoid participating just because I'm not on the level of some those who post who obviously have put some of the methods they've learned to good use. There are many things I won't learn without seminary as opposed to things I might do without such as something I mentioned in the first paragraph of my previous post:

George Somsel jokingly calls it cemetery every time he mentions it too, and nobody corrects him. And English is his native language. He's joking and we all know it. It's an in-joke. Lots of people who went to seminary call it that, because it has a reputation of killing your faith, though it doesn't have to if you keep up your spiritual disciplines:
If not, and you really think it is better instead to say "cemetary" every single time, I would suggest: not to go.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608938#Comment_608938

Unix it sounds as though you may be less liberal than your seminary. In which case not being teachable may be a good thing.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608863#Comment_608863

Just a quick answer on this specifically: I may not know a lot of Gk compared to anyone here or the average seminary student, but I've been interested in English Bible versions for 9¼ years so I've read a lot about them and concluded some things such as that the ESV and NASU show bias and CEB has some weird renderings, despite that they've put some effort into the ESV and CEB. I'm happy I didn't use them - many have been using them and become very accustomed to them. I don't believe I will ever be able to translate close or better than them, the only thing I believe is that I don't have to use those versions, there are alternatives such as the 1971 RSV New Testament, Revised English Bible, New English Translation of the Septuagint, and NRSV for (parts of) Ecclesiasticus. As my oldest IRL female friend who is not a relative would say: "You don't have to be right about the jot and tittle, just pick something and use it." It's better that for a while I stick to something I've chosen for which I can make a case, than to think that following the Biblia Hebraica and Nestle-Aland 28th Edition or UBS Greek New Testament 5th Edition slavishly by using for example the ESV for the New Testament would somehow be a relief. There are too big issues with the ESV, NRSV and NIV11 such as gender-neutral language that goes too far, bias and/or too mainstream:

I have seen examples in the forum of Unix recommending a preferred translation before he has even studied the languages. I fear that if he entered a seminary class with the opinion that he already knows the answer, he would be robbed of the pleasure of discovery that accompanies the teaching of a well trained professor.
I do not want to appear harsh or critical, because I have also been guilty of sitting in classes with a "less than teachable" mindset and it has been to my detriment. As Carson spells out in Exegetical Fallacies, there are too may examples of people assigning meanings to the text based on a little understanding of the Languages that are different than one reads when he understands gentle nuances of the language.

Everett Headley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608944#Comment_608944

FWIW,

I attempted to learn Greek on my own before I went to seminary, thinking it would be difficult and that I would need the extra time. I got a Greek Grammar and workbook and started in it. I even had a friend who was a native Greek speaker help me. The short story is that while I did pick up some of it, it didn't really help me in seminary. I used a different text, the prof showed me better ways to learn, and some stuff we didn't even cover until second semester. My suggestion is to go and enjoy your time and not worry about it. I miss my seminary days and wish I could go back and listen to some of those guys again.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608948#Comment_608948

Someone else, or two others, in this thread also told to ask the prof which book they use, but in this case that doesn't necessarily help at this point as the uni has decided that in 2015 they revamp all the classes, restructuring what they will teach us and introducing new books. Until yesterday I was thinking I would like to see those new books, but when I got the notice I've now started to think that maybe I want to get used to the older, probably cheaper books at the entry-level and perhaps stand a better chance to use what I favour. At the higher levels having the newest books is more critical:

I used a different text,

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608941#Comment_608941

In which case not being teachable may be a good thing.

I can't even imagine that being true ... questioning and refining are always necessary if you aren't guilty of supreme hubris.

MJ seems like it would be easier memorizing the things you are going to learn to use, rather than things that you aren't going to learn to use.

We have very different views of what it means to know a language - and one can't predict what one will use over a lifetime, only what one will use in a particular class assuming it requires no research or thought. Not to mention that for myself memorizing is not a good method of language acquisition.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/608935#Comment_608935

I would eventually like to do as few weddings as possible especially avoid the homosexual weddings although I don't expect to necessarily be able to avoid the latter as they are everywhere. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that. The denomination that offers most of the jobs over here (not in this City, but in rural areas to which I might be forced to move), has a strict policy that every priest has to wed homosexual couples and the seminary teaches that a lot in some of the last classes.

I applaud your church for being so inclusive, but it is sad they should not try to force you to do something against your morals. While strictly speaking not the same thing I would never try to force bacon on someone who eats kosher or meat on a vegetarian. What denomination is it?

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609034#Comment_609034

It's not my Church, nor is it their seminary. It's the Liberal Lutheran Church. I'm not sure there is an equivalent denomination in North America. They have all kinds of liberal theology such as New Age. I have been to a local book store that sells New Age books and order one from the U.S. about nature which was good and I wrote a review on it in college. But I don't want the seminary or denomination to make that kind of a choice on my behalf as I wouldn't buy everything. Oh yeah and I also bought one book about politics and the environment, I think it was written in the late '70s:

I applaud your church for being so inclusive, but it is sad they should not try to force you to do something against your morals. While strictly speaking not the same thing I would never try to force bacon on someone who eats kosher or meat on a vegetarian. What denomination is it?:
I would actually be very interested in the burials part, rather than weddings. I would eventually like to do as few weddings as possible especially avoid the homosexual weddings although I don't expect to necessarily be able to avoid the latter as they are everywhere. I hope I don't offend anyone by saying that. The denomination that offers most of the jobs over here (not in this City, but in rural areas to which I might be forced to move), has a strict policy that every priest has to wed homosexual couples and the seminary teaches that a lot in some of the last classes.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609060#Comment_609060

Both the ELCA and ELCiC offer affirmation (actual marriage in Canada, I would suppose in the states it would vary legally state to state) of Gay and Lesbian relationships. In Canada the ELCiC will not force anyone to perform a wedding.

-Dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609060#Comment_609060

It's the Liberal Lutheran Church.

Is this different from the Church of Sweden which is a liberal Lutheran church? If so, what is its official name please?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609069#Comment_609069

Uh Oh! The Plot Thickens. [:O]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609069#Comment_609069

Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

Is this different from the Church of Sweden which is a liberal Lutheran church? If so, what is its official name please?:
It's the Liberal Lutheran Church.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609081#Comment_609081

Not that it surprises me that You are.

I grew up in an Apostolic (Finnish) Lutheran community and have a daughter-in-law who is an ELCA pastor with high church tendencies. So I have some familiarity with Scandinavian Lutheranism.

Bill Coley

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609081#Comment_609081

Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

It is worthy of note that, your conclusion about them notwithstanding, those folks probably would call you a Christian.

Silent Sam

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609089#Comment_609089

Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

It is worthy of note that, your conclusion about them notwithstanding, those folks probably would call you a Christian.

[^o)] HHHMMMmmm~~~ [^o)]

Willard Scott

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609081#Comment_609081

Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is?

How liberal is it?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609091#Comment_609091

The Ethiopian Lutheran Church has broken off relationships with the ELCA and the Church of Sweden by name ... and any unnamed churches that agree with them.

BTW: the Ethiopians claims to have more worshipers on any given Sunday than the ELCA has in a month.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609093#Comment_609093

That casts a new light on Eccuminism. Wiff Us, Or Agin Us! [:O]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609089#Comment_609089

Haven't talked to them about it, but in fact they actually probably would not, as I believe a Church leader from the 2nd century: Ptolemey, it's "Gnosticism":

It is worthy of note that, your conclusion about them notwithstanding, those folks probably would call you a Christian:
Oh so You are familiar with it? Not that it surprises me that You are. Are You familiar with exactly how liberal it is? It's outrageous. I don't call them Christians:

Also, I believe in Purgatory in Afterlife, and few believe that anymore, no Church has it as its current theology.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609105#Comment_609105

Also, I believe in Purgatory in Afterlife, and few believe that anymore, no Church has it as its current theology.

Why am I Not Surprised?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609113#Comment_609113

Jews believed it at least 100-150 years before Christ on earth. See 2 Mc.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609116#Comment_609116

I suppose a similar thing could be said of a forum.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/609125#Comment_609125

[:D] I just love these forums! [:O]