64 bit OS

Some time ago I submitted a query about a 64 bit OS for Logos. I was told it will be available in Logos 5.3.

Will it then be mandatory to have the 64 bit OS, and will it be installed automatically as upgrades are now? When will it arrive? What % speed improvement in speed should I expect? Should I consider using a 5.3 Beta version?

I really am most grateful for the expert and courteous replies to my queries. Arising out of the good advice received I have upgraded Logos.

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Comments

Graham Criddle

Hi Noel

have a look at Bradley's post at http://community.logos.com/forums/t/87649.aspx

This is really all the information we have at the moment, and please note his caution about this being beta software with a lot of new code.

i would speculate this is likely to be a longer beta cycle than normal but we will have to see.

Graham

Dan Francis

From what I have heard windows will still have a 32 bit version. MacOS X is natively 64 bit already.

-Dan

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616881#Comment_616881

Do they still sell 32 bit pc's at retailers?

I'd heard a rumor that windows 9 is suppose to be 64 and 128 bit only.

Which would make more sense if there were 128 bit processors being rumored (or necessary).

Noel Fitzpatrick

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616893#Comment_616893

ABS,

when I read about 128 bit OS I just say 'Wow', Should I say to you 'Bow Wow'?

I think I will stick with what I have, and not look for the beta version (5.3), or get an SSD drive. Today I spent my budget on extra Logos resources, and cannot afford SSD.

I will focus on house-keeping to speed up my computer.

Does having the minimum number of resources in a layout help?

In a study rather than using the home page I use a layout, does this make sense?

SteveF

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616900#Comment_616900

Does having the minimum number of resources in a layout help?

In a study rather than using the home page I use a layout, does this make sense?

I believe the answer to both of these questions is, "Yes." [:P]

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

Will it then be mandatory to have the 64 bit OS

No, we will still support 32-bit Windows in Logos 5.3. (All recent Mac OS X versions support 64-bit so it's not an issue on that platform.)

Should I consider using a 5.3 Beta version?

If you haven't ever used a Logos 5 Beta before, I would advise not installing 5.3 Beta 1.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616900#Comment_616900

ABS,

Today I spent my budget on extra Logos resources, and cannot afford SSD.

I think you have my affliction.

Not that I mind a mild book addiction.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/616893#Comment_616893

Do they still sell 32 bit pc's at retailers?

Yes and it's likely that Windows 9/blue will not support such hardware; which is different to saying it will not support 32-bit software. Their 64 bit OS should still support 32-bit software on 64-bit hardware, but a 128 bit OS will not support 32 bit software if it follows the trend of 16/8 bit, 32/16 bit & 64/32 bit Windows.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617421#Comment_617421

David, what is the main advantage of 64 bit over 32 bit software including Windows? Is it only better use of memory, or does it involve overall speed?

32 lane highway vs 64 lane highway. 64 moves traffic (data) faster?

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617442#Comment_617442

Its the difference between moving dirt in a bucket vs a pick up truck.

32 bit is a bucket. fills quick, takes a minimal amount of effort to move. 64 bit is like the bed of a pick up truck - can move significantly more dirt in a single trip - but it is harder to move from here to there. 128 would be like filling the Titanic with dirt. Each additional bit doubles the amount of data being transported, thus 2 bit carries twice as much as one bit. Three bit carries twice as much as 2 bit. 129 bit carries twice as much as 128 bit and so on. The effort (electricity, and thus reduction of heat) required to move 128 bits of data is herculean and with modern processes is not something easily done without creating something hot enough to cook breakfast on.

On top of that 32bit can only address about 4gb of memory, whereas a 64 bit processor can address 128gb iirc. 128 bit processor could address more memory than exists information in the world today - more or less.

And yes Dave you are right.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617442#Comment_617442

David, what is the main advantage of 64 bit over 32 bit software including Windows? Is it only better use of memory, or does it involve overall speed?

In theory more bits should produce faster overall execution, but practice shows there is no significant difference. So if you have a 32-bit instruction sending it on a 128 lane highway will be slower than on a 32 lane highway. An instruction + data that can fit in 128 bits will be more efficient, as will having a full 128 bits of data, but how often does that happen compared to partially filled lanes? Also, filling and sending 1 x 128 bit of info could be slower than 2 x 64 bit on a 64 bit computer (or slower than 4 x 32 bit on a 32 bit computer!).

The major advantage is the vastly increased data space and arithmetic precision for specialist computing needs; I can't see 128 bit being advantageous to you and I.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617572#Comment_617572

My computer has 4GB of memory and is a 64 Bit Windows 7 Home Premium. Will a 64 bit versio of Logos run faster than the current version (at least in theory)?

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617587#Comment_617587

My computer has 4GB of memory and is a 64 Bit Windows 7 Home Premium. Will a 64 bit versio of Logos run faster than the current version (at least in theory)

In theory yes - in practice I think it depends more upon the extent to which logos new 64 bit code takes advantage of the extra bit space.

Lynden O. Williams

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617588#Comment_617588

Thanks Dave and abondservant.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617588#Comment_617588

My computer has 4GB of memory and is a 64 Bit Windows 7 Home Premium. Will a 64 bit versio of Logos run faster than the current version (at least in theory)

If you are swapping between applications parts of Logos will be swapped into/out of the disk drive depending on the available RAM. So if you can reduce the number of applications running with 64-bit Logos you will maximise the amount of available RAM, otherwise it won't be any different to what it is now, with only 4 GB RAM. I went from 4 GB to 8 GB to significantly increase available RAM for 64 bit Logos as well as the other applications I normally run.

We shall soon see if Logos "runs faster" (see below), particularly as we both have SSD's!

Note that 64-bit Logos will be about 10-15% larger than 32-bit.

In theory yes - in practice I think it depends more upon the extent to which logos new 64 bit code takes advantage of the extra bit space.

Logos and WPF/.NET

There are some "normal" operations that I'm expecting to be improved, so I'll be testing those and comparing with 32-bit Logos on the same computer. Startup is another area and I will also test full Indexing.

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/617625#Comment_617625

I've read that thread, all except the last post. The most relevant point seeming to be:

[quote]That's really an implementation detail of the Microsoft .NET JITter and GC, so I can't say for sure one way or the other.

Mike Childs

In simple terms, will the 64 bit Logos be faster and better? Or will performance be about the same?

Paul C

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/619975#Comment_619975

In simple terms, will the 64 bit Logos be faster and better?

I would expect the improvements to be measured in nanoseconds. If you are in such a rush that a nanosecond factors into your study schedule, Then you could claim an improvement. [:)]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/620007#Comment_620007

Whether you notice it or not will likely correlate to the amount of time you spend on your computer. People who live on their computer might notice an incredibly small improvement, everyone else maybe not.

I did read that some of the new more pricey GPU's have x128 extensions, and that certain intel chips have (not a full set certainly) certain of them as well.

mab

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/620015#Comment_620015

I'm hoping that my 4GB and SSD ultrabook will still play well in 64 bit Logos. It's pretty decent now with Win 7. I like what Win 8 does with minimal resources, but I'm not going to play with the OS until MS goes to Threshold.

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/619975#Comment_619975

In simple terms, will the 64 bit Logos be faster and better? Or will performance be about the same?

It could be marginally slower with 4 GB memory. It could be marginally faster with 8 GB or more, but some operations could be noticeably faster.