Roman Catholic Resources

For heaven's sake! I want MORE Catholic resources. It is about time Logos starts providing materials to all Christians!

SteveRay said:

For heaven's sake! I want MORE Catholic resources. It is about time Logos starts providing materials to all Christians!

Personally, I think it's a reasonable request and I wouldn't mind having some more myself for research purposes. But one needs to keep in mind the debates and theological persuasions that surround these types of issues. Logos isn't under any obligation to provide any sort of resources and if they just catered to Protestants or some smaller niche like Arminian Dispensational Protestants one still wouldn't be able to complain (since they are under no obligation to anyone for any type of resource). In that regard, one might as well replace the word "Catholic" in your sentence with the word "Mormon."

I think if you look at all we get, with even the smallest logos 4 library, there are many books we probably will never use.

I guess you could buy each book induvidually ( see how much that costs..

Logos should have something for everyone. Even if we do not agree with their doctrines.. Plus we should study all points of view.. how else are we going to know which is correct??

Actually, Pusey was was not Roman Catholic, but Anglican. But to the point, you don't have to read anything by Pusey or any other author if you don't want to. Logos has to market to a broad audience: surely there are many more resources in your platinum package that are congenial to your theological position, whatever it is. I am a conservative Lutheran, but enjoy having access to the thoughts of others to compare them with the results of my own Scripture study. Not every insight into Scripture is limited to people of one persuasion. As one who teaches, it is good to have access to authors who represent other positions, too, so that if I find it necessary to criticize their conclusions I can do it fairly, and not as a result of suppositions or stereotypes or because someone else made a blanket statement about them. So study Scripture for yourself, then compare every human author with Scripture. And rejoice that you have a richness of resources that many do not have to help you with your study, even if you prefer not to read Pusey.

Peter Cellini said:

Maybe I'm just naive...I thought that Methodists, Dispensationalists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Episcopalians were all protestants.  Aren't we still protesting the RC church?

In order to protest something..you actually have to be against it. or consider it a threat. If my faith is against the catholic faith. it has nothing to do with the catholic church ( or any other church for that matter ) so I am not protesting that church. I just have my belief.. If they consider me protesting them. that is their problem.. Just like if I considered them protesting me, I would have an issue, not them..

either way. No one should be upset they have a book from a belief they might not agree with.. I Read the book of mormon.. How else can I know what they believe??

Peter Cellini said:

Bryan, clearly we have a different idea of historic protestantism, but that is not the point.  I have read many catholic documents. (I was a catholic before the Lord saved me).  My argument is that when we buy a logos package that contains RC resources, I suppose that some of the license money goes to RC institutions.  That is what I am against.  The problem is that If I want a good deal on resources (instead of purchasing them seperately), I am made to support the RC institutions.

This was part of my point earlier.

Logos is offering software,, they are not biased, so they support all views..

It would not help them, or us, to offer denominational packages, The cost would probably be hindering.. to maintain so many different packages..

Not to mention you are supporting a publisher, such as nelson of zondervan, and not an organization. Most publishers publish cross organization resources.. including catholic..

so I still do not understand your reasoning or complaint.

Peter Cellini said:

The problem is that If I want a good deal on resources (instead of purchasing them seperately), I am made to support the RC institutions.

Goodness, if that is true can I get a refund on the John Piper resources?

MJ. Smith said:

Peter Cellini said:

Didn't logos used to have a catholic edition?

They still have Lutheran, Catholic and Jewish packages - but these are publisher relationships of add-on resources. But reference, language and theological books don't fall neatly into your divisions. It is more of a continuum. A rule of thumb I was taught by Catholic priests: for theology, go to Catholic presses; for Bible study, go to Lutheran presses; for liturgy, go to Anglican presses. I would add Orthodox presses for theology and liturgy and Jewish presses for Bible study. My point is that good scholarship is good scholarship regardless of the personal beliefs of the author and personal beliefs are a multi-dimensional continuum not distinct boxes.

Amen.. I might not agree with everything an author says.. does not mean I can not get something good out of his book..

That's why Logos needs thousands of editions. Reformed Baptist editions, Southern Baptist editions, Roman Catholic editions, sedevacantist editions, Eastern Orthodox editions, PCUSA editions, PCA editions, OPC editions, Anglican editions, Episcopalian editions, and just to make sure absolutely everyone feels fuzzy: Mormon, Jehovah's Witness, Christian Scientist, and Gnostic editions.

Peter Cellini said:

I just upgraded to Logos 4 platinum and was quite distressed to find that I paid money for some roman catholic resources (e.b. Pusey, etc).  Do any others feel this way?

 

It doesn't bother me, but then I work in the area of comparative religions. I have even used the Quran that comes with Logos on several occasions.

The Catholic resources don't seem to generate a lot of sales. For example, the community pricing on Catena Aurea: Commentary on the Four Gospels by Thomas Aquinas hasn't been able to get enough interest to even reach 50% of the purchase commitments need for production.

Peter Cellini said:

Maybe I'm just naive...I thought that Methodists, Dispensationalists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, Episcopalians were all protestants.  Aren't we still protesting the RC church?

Technically Peter, there are Lutherans (including me) who do not consider themselves Protestants.  On a linear view, we do not believe we moved more to the left than Roman Catholics, but more to the right (the argument being, we corrected what Luther felt was wrong with the Roman church...getting back to the Word, as it is.)

There are some major differences which most Protestants have with Lutherans, even.  Not to create an argument, but just to point out, those include the idea of double predestination.  Lutherans do not believe that some people are BORN in a group which has been condemned to be some of the "not selected" people.  For a SMALL book on the Lutheran position (Martin Luther position, that is), see "Bondage of the Will".  It would be a good book, for anyone to read, just to know how somebody else sees it.

Another "biggie" for Lutherans is infant baptism.  Not to argue, but to point out, the argument from a Lutheran point of view, is to look at circumcision.  How old was Jesus when he was circumcised?  Eight days.  HOW would Jesus know the meaning of this, unless it was done when he was grown up?  Answer: he was taught.  Also, one of the verses to which we look, is Colossians 2:11-12.  Obviously, the reference here being made, is Baptism to circumcision.

As for Roman Catholics, for whatever reason, it always seems that Lutherans treat them with more respect, than Protestants do.  This may be upsetting to many, but as catholics (small "c"), as we all are, we most likely will see them in heaven, just as we expect to see Calvinists, etc. there (other protestants).

Is Arminian Dispensational Protestants like Secular Humanists?  (tongue in cheek)

DavidEHaeuser said:

Actually, Pusey was was not Roman Catholic, but Anglican. But to the point, you don't have to read anything by Pusey or any other author if you don't want to. Logos has to market to a broad audience: surely there are many more resources in your platinum package that are congenial to your theological position, whatever it is. I am a conservative Lutheran, but enjoy having access to the thoughts of others to compare them with the results of my own Scripture study. Not every insight into Scripture is limited to people of one persuasion. As one who teaches, it is good to have access to authors who represent other positions, too, so that if I find it necessary to criticize their conclusions I can do it fairly, and not as a result of suppositions or stereotypes or because someone else made a blanket statement about them. So study Scripture for yourself, then compare every human author with Scripture. And rejoice that you have a richness of resources that many do not have to help you with your study, even if you prefer not to read Pusey.

I've followed this thread very carefully up to the time of posting, and I would say that David's answer above is spot on. Most library's would contain some material with which we disagree, but this doesn't mean that we shouldn't read it. Within my own denomination (Anglican) there are certain positions that are contrary to my own point of view but that doesn't mean that my 'brethren' aren't entitled to theirs. I'm just grateful that within Logos's broad base it is able to accommodate ME and provide me with the means to be a more effective scholar, priest, pastor and preacher (and probably more cost effectively too).

Peter Cellini said:

"for theology, go to Catholic presses"  yes, for theology of works salvation

God help all of us if our salvation is based on having all our doctrine right.  Many protestants have this doctrine, at least until they understand God's plan of redemption in a more perfect way.  Our salvation is not based on right understanding of right doctrine but on our belief (faith, trust, obedience to - all part of the meaning of the Greek word belief) in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us.

Yes, I believe the Roman Catholic Church has distorted much of the apostles' teaching, but we need to keep THIS in mind: if the RC church is as bad as some think, then there were virtually no Christians for almost 1500 years!; and I think it would be true to say that NO other church or denomination has played a bigger role in spreading the gospel all around the world than the Roman Catholic Church.  As Paul would say, (yes, I KNOW it's a different context but it doesn't make it any less true), "What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being proclaimed; and in this I rejoice, yes, and I will rejoice."

Alex Scott said:

Our salvation is not based on right understanding of right doctrine but on our belief (faith, trust, obedience to - all part of the meaning of the Greek word belief) in Jesus Christ and what He has done for us.

This is just semantics. A doctrine is ultimately simply a type of belief. Think of the Judaizers, the gnostics etc. They held to beliefs (doctrines) which are damnable. Today people are capable of doing the same thing (having belief or doctrine which is damnable). Some people just draw the lines in different places (virgin birth? Deity of Christ? Works salvation?), but ultimately we need to try to follow the lines of Scripture.

One might easily ask, "can one be saved if they don't rightly understand the person of Christ?" What if they think Christ was just a good moral guru? Clearly, salvation *is* in some sense based on right understanding of right doctrine... That is, if you want to call yourself a Christian and have that label actually mean something.

BradNilsson said:

This thread sickens me.  Remember it's Christmas, a day for all Christians to celebrate.

 

Not all Christians celebrate Christmas, for various reasons. And while I don't share Peter's sentiments, I don't find anything about it or the thread sickening.

After all this conversation, I'm still befuddled.  Edward Pusey, Regius Professor at Oxford, was Anglican.  Anglicans are P(p)rotestants....So what's the problem, again?

Narrow minded bigotry sickens me.  Anyone who is scared of a reference work that disagrees with them is entirely too insecure in their beliefs.

Personally, I want to get the Catechism of the Catholic Church and all the Papal Encyclicals in Logos format.  That would allow me to leverage the ECF resources I have.

Anglicanism has traditionally descried itself as the via media, middle way, between Protestantism and Roman Catholicism.  Anglicanism is not a confessional denomination.  Anglicans encompass a broad spectrum of viewpoints (read theologies).  These include evangelicals and Anglo-Catholics.  Some would happily describe themselves as Protestants, others less so.  In my opinion, this openness to a variety of views is both a strength and a weakness of the Anglican Communion.  

To say more about denominations is, imo, well beyond talking about Logos.

 I consider myself a Christian who is worshiping in the Anglican tradition.  To facilitate my Christian walk I am interested in accessing resources from a wide spectrum of the Christian faith.  I am happy that Logos includes a variety of theological positions in its resources.  Others in this thread have suggested that resources from other, imo non-Christian, traditions are also appropriate.  In other threads there have been requests for materials from non-Christian fields of study.  I think this is helpful if we are to understand the interactions between Christianity and the rest of society.  I believe it can also be helpful in understanding some of the developments of our denominations and faith.

I could comment on Ecumenicism and denominationism (?) but again I don't think that this is appropriate to this forum.

Brothers and Sisters in Christ, I pray that we all experience the peace of Christ throughout the year.