The future of 5.3

The 5.3 Beta Programme is over now that Logos 6 has been launched; we plan no further updates to 5.3.

You can get all the 5.3 features (Send to Kindle, Personal Book Upload, 64-bit, etc.) in the stable version of 6.0. This is available now for everyone who purchases an upgrade/crossgrade and will be available to all customers for free on February 3, 2015.

If you have purchased Logos 6, run "set update channel to stable" to download the 6.0 installer. (If you leave your update channel on "default" or "beta", you won't update until the first 6.0a beta is released.)

Are you saying there will be NO Logos/Verbum 5.3 release (RC/Gold/stable)?

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644330#Comment_644330

Are you saying there will be NO Logos/Verbum 5.3 release (RC/Gold/stable)?

Correct; 5.3 has been superseded by Logos 6. It won't be disabled, but it won't receive any more updates.

Logos 5.2b is now our "maintenance" release (see https://www.logos.com/support/free-support) for Windows Vista and OS X 10.6/10.7/10.8; it will receive updates to allow it to read new resources. Logos 6 is the new "supported" version, and the next beta will be based on Logos 6.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644342#Comment_644342

Are you saying there will be NO Logos/Verbum 5.3 release (RC/Gold/stable)?

Correct; 5.3 has been superseded by Logos 6. It won't be disabled, but it won't receive any more updates.

Logos 5.2b is now our "maintenance" release (see https://www.logos.com/support/free-support) for Windows Vista and OS X 10.6/10.7/10.8; it will receive updates to allow it to read new resources. Logos 6 is the new "supported" version, and the next beta will be based on Logos 6.

Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644378#Comment_644378

On my Mac, searching is non-functioning. It works fine on my PC, but I use both.

So if I want searching back on my Mac, I will have to do a clean install/download/index, or pay to upgrade to Logos 6.0.

I went into the Beta with eyes wide open to try out the new features, but also to help Logos.

I assumed 5.3 would be developed until it worked. I am not happy with this at all.

Jerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644786#Comment_644786

On my Mac, searching is non-functioning.

Please continue this discussion in this thread: https://community.logos.com/forums/t/92566.aspx

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644786#Comment_644786

I assumed 5.3 would be developed until it worked. I am not happy with this at all.

Jerry

me to [:(]

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644786#Comment_644786

I assumed 5.3 would be developed until it worked. I am not happy with this at all.

I didn't expect it to be a dead-end either, so I have a similar decision to make.

Mitchell

What's the recommended course of action for those who have 5.3 beta installed and don't plan on immediately purchasing Logos 6? Just run a beta version of the software for the next four months?

Dave Hooton

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644865#Comment_644865

Just run a beta version of the software for the next four months?

Provided you can manage problems without Faithlife Support...

I am going to say this very carefully. For context I am a Verbum Capstone customer, with several non-trivial additional libraries. With that in mind ...

Having a 5.3 beta program, with no intention of every shipping a stable 5.3 product is, in at least some measure, deceptive.

As a software professional I am used to working with beta software, and I am also used to various revenue models. But this isn't about that.

Rather, this is about trust.

Planning a major release is something that is obviously done way in advance. Positioning this as a mythical 5.3 beta, when in fact it was part of a 6.0 dev program is where the deception comes in. If I had known that it was a preview of 6, I may or may not have participated, but I would at least have been able to decide. Instead, I am faced with the prospect of either waiting it out for the free upgrade in a few months, or paying for immediate access to code which has apparently matured overnight.

That's it for now. I will mull this over more before further comment.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644948#Comment_644948

I am going to say this very carefully. For context I am a Verbum Capstone customer, with several non-trivial additional libraries. With that in mind ...

Having a 5.3 beta program, with no intention of every shipping a stable 5.3 product is, in at least some measure, deceptive.

As a software professional I am used to working with beta software, and I am also used to various revenue models. But this isn't about that.

Rather, this is about trust.

Planning a major release is something that is obviously done way in advance. Positioning this as a mythical 5.3 beta, when in fact it was part of a 6.0 dev program is where the deception comes in. If I had known that it was a preview of 6, I may or may not have participated, but I would at least have been able to decide. Instead, I am faced with the prospect of either waiting it out for the free upgrade in a few months, or paying for immediate access to code which has apparently matured overnight.

That's it for now. I will mull this over more before further comment.

There was actually an L6 Alpha program going, I think, since early spring 2014. Nevertheless I agree that there is a certain amount of expectation when running an L5.3 beta that you are planning to release a 5.3 RC.

JT (alabama24)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644948#Comment_644948

Having a 5.3 beta program, with no intention of every shipping a stable 5.3 product is, in at least some measure, deceptive.

I <think> the issue is related to Logos deciding to make 5.2 the "maintenance" release for older operating systems. I don't think any deception was intended.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644955#Comment_644955

Having a 5.3 beta program, with no intention of every shipping a stable 5.3 product is, in at least some measure, deceptive.

I <think> the issue is related to Logos deciding to make 5.2 the "maintenance" release for older operating systems. I don't think any deception was intended.

I prefer "expectation" but deception or expectation, quibble where you will.

Do you believe they will be adding the features that are available in the 5.3 beta in the 5.2b "maintenance" release? If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Drew Hannay

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644964#Comment_644964

I think the answers to those questions are:

Do you believe they will be adding the features that are available in the 5.3 beta in the 5.2b "maintenance" release?

No, and

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

Tom Reynolds

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644955#Comment_644955

With 5.3 not supporting Vista and older they pretty much had to make 5.2b the maintenance release. How long ago was that decided?

That said, my laptop only has Vista (yes I need to buy a new one as this was purchased just before L4 came out). I'm not really heartbroken that I can't run L6 at present as all the functionality I need is currently present in 5.2b. I am however planning to buy a new laptop before I head back overseas so that I can run L6. No other software I use requires a newer machine which says something about the high level software that L6 is... Feel free to send donations ;-)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644970#Comment_644970

The Vista issue is a valid point for some users. Not to mention the 64b with the new engine

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.[:)]

Anonymous

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644948#Comment_644948

I'm sorry you feel deceived. It was not our intent to deceive anyone. The feedback in the 5.3 beta was valuable to helping us make Logos 6 as stable as possible.

We originally intended for 5.3 to ship before Logos 6. The more we focused on Logos 6 the more the dates on 5.3 slipped. As we evaluated the options we decided it was best to put our focus into making Logos 6 and 5.2b the best they could be. We were trying to do the best for the most number of customers and I'm sorry you were caught in the middle. I value your feedback and will make sure we keep this in mind as we evaluate release dates in the future.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644955#Comment_644955

Having a 5.3 beta program, with no intention of every shipping a stable 5.3 product is, in at least some measure, deceptive.

I <think> the issue is related to Logos deciding to make 5.2 the "maintenance" release for older operating systems. I don't think any deception was intended.

While it is possible for that sort of decision (to cancel 5.3 and stick with 5.2) to be made late in the game, it is unlikely. The sort of technological underpinnings that were being changed were fairly fundamental, and take time to sort out. In fact, I was a bit surprised that they were going out in a dot release, but happy nonetheless as they answered some of my lingering concerns with logos.

I have participated in many, many alpha / beta / etc. release efforts over the years (on both sides of the table, including recently all of the OS X 10.10 and iOS 8 developer previews), and every one of them (before this one) eventually resulted in a stable, released product, eventually.

Yes I now understand that the new engine was only a small part of a much larger effort. If I had known this was just an early sortie to pave the way for 6, I would not have spent any time with 5.3 beta, or at the very least would have already committed to do the upgrade.

Anonymous

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644977#Comment_644977

The Vista issue is a valid point for some users. Not to mention the 64b with the new engine

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644978#Comment_644978

I'm sorry you feel deceived. It was not our intent to deceive anyone. The feedback in the 5.3 beta was valuable to helping us make Logos 6 as stable as possible.

We originally intended for 5.3 to ship before Logos 6. The more we focused on Logos 6 the more the dates on 5.3 slipped. As we evaluated the options we decided it was best to put our focus into making Logos 6 and 5.2b the best they could be. We were trying to do the best for the most number of customers and I'm sorry you were caught in the middle. I value your feedback and will make sure we keep this in mind as we evaluate release dates in the future.

Ok, I will accept your comments at face value, particularly regarding intent to not deceive.

With that in mind, I would strongly urge the company to not engage people in beta programs that are not eventually delivered as stable releases. Also, communicating early and often would really be the key here. At such time as it looked like 5.3 was going to be pulled, something to that effect ought to have been communicated, at least privately - presumably setting updates to the beta channel notes results in a notation someplace?

As a bonus some proactive options for going to the release that ended up superseding what had been planned (in this case 6 instead of 5.3) would have eliminated the concerns entirely.

Thanks for taking the time to read and respond.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644980#Comment_644980

The Vista issue is a valid point for some users. Not to mention the 64b with the new engine

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

Yes, but in the meantime, I will be running a piece of beta software.

Jerry

Paul Myers

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644995#Comment_644995

I agree. I jumped into the beta release late in the game expecting a safe off ramp to a stable release as in past betas. (Yes, I read the warnings - Proverbs 30:2 applies to me.) But I too am stuck using beta software until the free engine. Very disappointing.

Rosie Perera

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644980#Comment_644980

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

I'm not a 5.3 beta tester, but perhaps it would help make up for the disillusionment you've caused among them to let them all have the free Logos 6 engine now and not have to wait until February. The only reason you're having most people wait is not a technical issue, it's to encourage people to upgrade to a L6 Base Package. But the 5.3 beta tester have given you something of their time and effort and trust, and you've let them down. So I think you ought to make it up to them in this way. And let them in on the discount you're giving to L6 beta testers for base package upgrades.

Dan Francis

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644980#Comment_644980

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

That is a pretty long way off to wait for a new release.

-dan

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645049#Comment_645049

Thank you all for your feedback.

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644980#Comment_644980

The Vista issue is a valid point for some users. Not to mention the 64b with the new engine

If not, are those features resident in the default L6 engine that is free in February?

Yes

hmmm. Well then it would remove a little of the burn some might feel. It might have been beneficial for a Logos employee to state as much.

Everything in 5.3 will be in the free Logos 6 engine in February.

Thanks for the clarity. I appreciate your response. [Y]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645128#Comment_645128

Thank you all for your feedback.

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

Thank you for looking into this, I know there is a lot on your plate right now and for everyone else at Logos/Faithlife.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645128#Comment_645128

Thank you all for your feedback.

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

After the earlier discussion, decided to buy a cross-grade. I am generally willing to purchase technological / functionality improvements to support content licenses, understand the cost of ongoing development, etc.

Having said that, for the other 5.3 beta folks I think a sounder resolution would be to simply offer them early access to the no-cost engine-only option. That would not divert dev resources at this point (with a better option available), simplify ongoing support, and avoid any concerns about 5.3 being stopped at a relatively late date (with no prior heads-up).

Anyway, just a thought. Thanks.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645434#Comment_645434

Lets face it, most of us are early adopters.

As such, I wonder how many have absolutely no plan to upgrade to six before feb?

As soon as my salesman throws the switch I'll be downloading Portfolio... Suspect the majority will be like Bob Lozano, or myself.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645846#Comment_645846

Lets face it, most of us are early adopters.

As such, I wonder how many have absolutely no plan to upgrade to six before feb?

As soon as my salesman throws the switch I'll be downloading Portfolio... Suspect the majority will be like Bob Lozano, or myself.

I have plans to upgrade yesterday, however, finances dictate another plan. [:)]

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645854#Comment_645854

I can relate to that... My little church is sending me some extra money for PAM, and I'm going to have a little more the next two months so I should be able to pay down, or off entirely the Portfolio package by Christmas. Not something I had anticipated a few months ago.

Erwin Stull, Sr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645857#Comment_645857

I can relate to that... My little church is sending me some extra money for PAM, and I'm going to have a little more the next two months so I should be able to pay down, or off entirely the Portfolio package by Christmas. Not something I had anticipated a few months ago.

That is a BLESSING. [:D]

The congregation does appreciate their Pastor, although you may not always think so. Especially those Pastors, Ministers, Evangelists, etc. who are involved.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645889#Comment_645889

I can relate to that... My little church is sending me some extra money for PAM, and I'm going to have a little more the next two months so I should be able to pay down, or off entirely the Portfolio package by Christmas. Not something I had anticipated a few months ago.

That is a BLESSING.

The congregation does appreciate their Pastor, although you may not always think so. Especially those Pastors, Ministers, Evangelists, etc. who are involved.

An extra special blessing as well considering I am out of state and at seminary (Which they are paying for), and I'm only interim, and only then a few weeks this year (though much of last year)

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645434#Comment_645434

Having said that, for the other 5.3 beta folks I think a sounder resolution would be to simply offer them early access to the no-cost engine-only option. That would not divert dev resources at this point (with a better option available), simplify ongoing support, and avoid any concerns about 5.3 being stopped at a relatively late date (with no prior heads-up).

I agree with this. I'm not affected, as I've bought L6, but I'd feel pretty ticked off if I hadn't.

Benjamin Varghese

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645922#Comment_645922

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit.

Stephen Steele

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645128#Comment_645128

We will reevaluate the decision to stop 5.3 development and consider investing more development resources to bring 5.3 to RC.

[y]

rcdeacon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/644862#Comment_644862

I am another very unhappy former Logos user! I'll sell my library cheap! This is far from the first time this type of thing has happened. Sorry if this offends anyone but I am over Logos!

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645966#Comment_645966

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit.

Agreed.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646030#Comment_646030

Bob - give it a night to make sure you're sure, but then send me a message on faithlife.

rcdeacon

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646035#Comment_646035

Okay but I am reasonably sure I want to sell. I have an 8.4g library (bronze with numerous add ons) Not sure what I will take but it will be reasonable. I am not active on faithlife and I am not sure how to make contact but I will heed good godly advice and think about it overnight.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646053#Comment_646053

If you read the forum guidelines, you will see this is not where to do it - eBay, craigslist ...

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/645966#Comment_645966

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit.

First, they clearly tell you in beta to not have it as your primary or only installation. If you do not adhere to that, it is your call.

Second, that being said, nobody is forced to pay to get out of beta if they follow what Logos tells them to do.

Third, They have not ditched paying customers.

Fourth and Last, many of you are way over reacting and are not being rational or reasonable. There are no guarantees or promises or warranties given with the beta releases and you certainly did not pay for the beta release.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646064#Comment_646064

You can reinstall 5.2 which is still a supported version to some degree.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646056#Comment_646056

There is a facebook group. I would be more interested in the addons than the bronze package.. but still. I am hesitant to put my email address on the forum after the last time someone took and signed me up for EVERY logos mailing list, and one liberal news website.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646064#Comment_646064

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit.

First, they clearly tell you in beta to not have it as your primary or only installation. If you do not adhere to that, it is your call.

Second, that being said, nobody is forced to pay to get out of beta if they follow what Logos tells them to do.

Third, They have not ditched paying customers.

Fourth and Last, many of you are way over reacting and are not being rational or reasonable. There are no guarantees or promises or warranties given with the beta releases and you certainly did not pay for the beta release.

You make some good points, David. However I don't agree with all of them:

Yes, they do tell you to not have it as your primary/only install. But that still means that machine is locked into a Beta until the L6 engine is released in 3+ months.

Yes, we are forced to get out of the beta. We cannot do anything else on that machine except a clean install with hours of downloads and indexing. When I put the beta on my secondary machine, I expected that there would be a stable 5.3 release at some point.

I agree that they have not exactly ditched paying customers, but they are not exactly treating them right either.

Right - no guarantees. But is it not reasonable to think you would eventually have a stable 5.3 release?

No, I did not pay for the Beta release, but I did do free testing for Logos.

Jerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646065#Comment_646065

You can reinstall 5.2 which is still a supported version to some degree.

True, but that means a complete download of many gigs and a full index (that part is not a big deal to me).

Jerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646070#Comment_646070

There is a facebook group. I would be more interested in the addons than the bronze package.. but still. I am hesitant to put my email address on the forum after the last time someone took and signed me up for EVERY logos mailing list, and one liberal news website.

I know you can't put the link here, but can you give me a name to search for?

I may be out. After 15+ years with this company, I may be out.

Jerry

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646077#Comment_646077

You can reinstall 5.2 which is still a supported version to some degree.

True, but that means a complete download of many gigs and a full index (that part is not a big deal to me).

Jerry

Actually not. You can move the resources over on a thumbdrive. Copying the files on the thumb drive should only take a few minutes and is the slowest part. Then you use the scan command on the recipient machine. Someone else I'm sure knows the wiki link that more deeply explains this process.

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/646074#Comment_646074

Two things are slightly broken with this beta release - the "Trust" Feature, and the "World Class Customer Service" feature. To ditch paying customers half-way down the beta program and force them to pay to get out of the beta can be defended in letter, but not in spirit.

First, they clearly tell you in beta to not have it as your primary or only installation. If you do not adhere to that, it is your call.

Second, that being said, nobody is forced to pay to get out of beta if they follow what Logos tells them to do.

Third, They have not ditched paying customers.

Fourth and Last, many of you are way over reacting and are not being rational or reasonable. There are no guarantees or promises or warranties given with the beta releases and you certainly did not pay for the beta release.

You make some good points, David. However I don't agree with all of them:

Yes, they do tell you to not have it as your primary/only install. But that still means that machine is locked into a Beta until the L6 engine is released in 3+ months.

Yes, we are forced to get out of the beta. We cannot do anything else on that machine except a clean install with hours of downloads and indexing. When I put the beta on my secondary machine, I expected that there would be a stable 5.3 release at some point.

I agree that they have not exactly ditched paying customers, but they are not exactly treating them right either.

Right - no guarantees. But is it not reasonable to think you would eventually have a stable 5.3 release?

No, I did not pay for the Beta release, but I did do free testing for Logos.

Jerry

The way I see it is that those are the risks of joining a beta program. You assume the risk when you join. You did free testing and enjoyed features that others could not. A clean install may be inconvenient but it IS possible. So to say that you are forced to buy out of the beta is a bit dishonest.