Church Fathers and Ancient Literature Section

In the Ancient Literature section I have been surprised by how many hyperlinks don’t go to Philip Schaff’s Library of the Fathers. For the first time I have noted that the title of the series is “A Select Library of…” I take these to mean it is not a complete collection, and additional purchases would be necessary to get the full use of this new section in the Passage Guide. Am I understanding the situation correctly?

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Mark Barnes

I take these to mean it is not a complete collection, and additional purchases would be necessary to get the full use of this new section in the Passage Guide. Am I understanding the situation correctly?

Yes, you are. Fathers of the Church would give you best coverage (make sure you're sitting down before you look at the price), but even that's not complete. The Ancient Christian Writers would give you more again, but the database would need to be updated before it would make best use of that (as yet unpublished) resource.

Bradley Grainger (Logos)

The links go to your preferred resource (for whatever data type that is). You can use Parallel Resources to get to other resources.

(For more detailed help, please post a screenshot.)

Mark Barnes

Also, if you click on the links to resources your don't own, Power Lookup should let you know which resources would open if you had them.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648595#Comment_648595

I take these to mean it is not a complete collection, and additional purchases would be necessary to get the full use of this new section in the Passage Guide. Am I understanding the situation correctly?

Yes, you are. Fathers of the Church would give you best coverage (make sure you're sitting down before you look at the price), but even that's not complete. The Ancient Christian Writers would give you more again, but the database would need to be updated before it would make best use of that (as yet unpublished) resource.

Yes, Mark is correct. However, We do have some ideas on expanding the coverage to include more of the potential references in ECF (Schaff), and I'm actually working on that right now.

"Full use" is relative, though. Sometimes you just need to know the extent of coverage. Sometimes you can look up the citations in print volumes in a library. For the Church Fathers material particularly, this is like an index. If the book is to hand, great, you can look it up. If not, but you know the author and it seems worthy of following up on, you can do so on your next library trip. In the past, you wouldn't know what you don't know (an unknown unknown). Now you know what you don't know (a known unknown). I guess that's progress?

Anthony H

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648607#Comment_648607

I take these to mean it is not a complete collection, and additional purchases would be necessary to get the full use of this new section in the Passage Guide. Am I understanding the situation correctly?

Yes, you are. Fathers of the Church would give you best coverage (make sure you're sitting down before you look at the price), but even that's not complete. The Ancient Christian Writers would give you more again, but the database would need to be updated before it would make best use of that (as yet unpublished) resource.

Yes, Mark is correct. However, We do have some ideas on expanding the coverage to include more of the potential references in ECF (Schaff), and I'm actually working on that right now.

"Full use" is relative, though. Sometimes you just need to know the extent of coverage. Sometimes you can look up the citations in print volumes in a library. For the Church Fathers material particularly, this is like an index. If the book is to hand, great, you can look it up. If not, but you know the author and it seems worthy of following up on, you can do so on your next library trip. In the past, you wouldn't know what you don't know (an unknown unknown). Now you know what you don't know (a known unknown). I guess that's progress?

[Y]

This is good news! Of many of the new features I'm excited about in L6 I'm looking forward to upgrading because of this kind of functionality that presents more of the intertestamental/Second Temple works, Church fathers, etc. in correlation to the NT without to much strain on my wallet. [:D]

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648623#Comment_648623

Thanks for all the answers. While pleased with many of the works included in my Collectors upgrade, I can help but wish more primary resources that are being heavily linked to would have been included.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648641#Comment_648641

I decided against Collectors and went for Portfolio plus several bundles (including the Fathers) for precisely that reason.

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648675#Comment_648675

I decided against Collectors and went for Portfolio plus several bundles (including the Fathers) for precisely that reason.

As a beta tester you had the advantage of knowing how L6 worked! The rest of us went in blind. Nevertheless, I am happy with my purchase.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648700#Comment_648700

As a beta tester you had the advantage of knowing how L6 worked!

That's true. But I spent so long waiting for the site to starting work that I'd watched all the videos on YouTube several times before making my purchase! That certainly helped. But truthfully I just didn't see value in Collectors for me (I already own most of the good stuff in there).

David Taylor, Jr.

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648595#Comment_648595

I take these to mean it is not a complete collection, and additional purchases would be necessary to get the full use of this new section in the Passage Guide. Am I understanding the situation correctly?

Yes, you are. Fathers of the Church would give you best coverage (make sure you're sitting down before you look at the price), but even that's not complete. The Ancient Christian Writers would give you more again, but the database would need to be updated before it would make best use of that (as yet unpublished) resource.

I'm glad you told me to sit down, you weren't kidding! Woa!

Anyways, I'm looking at just getting the resources that come in the Silver package (can't remember the titles off hand) to give me a start. Thoughts?

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648707#Comment_648707

As a beta tester you had the advantage of knowing how L6 worked!

That's true. But I spent so long waiting for the site to starting work that I'd watched all the videos on YouTube several times before making my purchase! That certainly helped. But truthfully I just didn't see value in Collectors for me (I already own most of the good stuff in there).

Somehow I had picked up most of the "bad stuff" previously and almost all the "good stuff" was left such as the ICC, Anchor, Two Horizons was left. It only took me a few minutes to figure out that my upgrade price was a really good deal.

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648733#Comment_648733

I'm looking at just getting the resources that come in the Silver package (can't remember the titles off hand) to give me a start.

Silver comes with the Early Church Fathers, the Apostolic Fathers, Josephus and Philo, all of which have many links from this section.

With Silver you'll miss out on the Dead Sea Scrolls, the Nag Hammadi Library, The Apocrypha and Pseudepigrapha of the Old Testament in English. But there's a big jump to base packages that include them.

The XL edition of the Ancient Texts and Translations Bundle would be the best way adding all those to your package, along with several other useful works.

MJ. Smith

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648869#Comment_648869

For fuller coverage help get the following out of community pricing and into production:

Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Latina (221 vols.) by Jacques Paul Migne

Patrologiae Cursus Completus: Series Graeca (167 vols.)

Patrologia Syriaca (vols. 1–2) and Orientalis (vols. 1–14, 16)

Andy

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648793#Comment_648793

Somehow I had picked up most of the "bad stuff" previously and almost all the "good stuff" was left such as the ICC, Anchor, Two Horizons was left. It only took me a few minutes to figure out that my upgrade price was a really good deal.

I was pretty much in the same situation. I had ICC, but had been saving furiously for AYB. My upgrade cost was only slightly higher than by AYB as a standalone. For me, it was a great deal.

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/648607#Comment_648607

I've mentioned in a few different posts that we were working on an update to Ancient Literature, one that would integrate more fully with the Schaff Edition of church fathers (ANF / NPNF). That work is complete, and the expanded Ancient Literature dataset was delivered on Tuesday (Nov 11). The dataset expanded from ~180,000 references to over 260,000 references, a fair portion of the newer references are to datatypes supported by the Schaff set so they will work whether one has the Protestant edition or the Catholic edition.

Some context below.

I take these to mean it is not a complete collection, and additional purchases would be necessary to get the full use of this new section in the Passage Guide. Am I understanding the situation correctly?

Yes, you are. Fathers of the Church would give you best coverage (make sure you're sitting down before you look at the price), but even that's not complete. The Ancient Christian Writers would give you more again, but the database would need to be updated before it would make best use of that (as yet unpublished) resource.

Yes, Mark is correct. However, We do have some ideas on expanding the coverage to include more of the potential references in ECF (Schaff), and I'm actually working on that right now.

Graham Criddle

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658571#Comment_658571

Thanks Rick - for the ongoing work and updates to this very helpful dataset

Keith Larson

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658580#Comment_658580

Thanks for the updated on progress and the especially the update to the resources!

Anthony H

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658571#Comment_658571

I've mentioned in a few different posts that we were working on an update to Ancient Literature, one that would integrate more fully with the Schaff Edition of church fathers (ANF / NPNF). That work is complete, and the expanded Ancient Literature dataset was delivered on Tuesday (Nov 11). The dataset expanded from ~180,000 references to over 260,000 references, a fair portion of the newer references are to datatypes supported by the Schaff set so they will work whether one has the Protestant edition or the Catholic edition.

+[Y]

Absolutely Awesome, Mr. Rick Brannan!! Thank you![:D]

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658628#Comment_658628

I didn't notice an update to Shaff in my library - neither the protestant or catholic editions.

Despite having used "update resources" as opposed to "update now".

Mark Barnes

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658653#Comment_658653

I didn't notice an update to Shaff in my library - neither the protestant or catholic editions.

The Ancient literature database is it's own resource (not visible in the library). That's what Rick is referring to. My database is dated 6th November (the date refers to the build date, not the publish date, so I'm not 100% sure that's the same version Rick means).

abondservant

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658666#Comment_658666

Thanks Mark!

Paul Strickert

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658571#Comment_658571

I've mentioned in a few different posts that we were working on an update to Ancient Literature, one that would integrate more fully with the Schaff Edition of church fathers (ANF / NPNF). That work is complete, and the expanded Ancient Literature dataset was delivered on Tuesday (Nov 11). The dataset expanded from ~180,000 references to over 260,000 references, a fair portion of the newer references are to datatypes supported by the Schaff set so they will work whether one has the Protestant edition or the Catholic edition.

Noticed the difference immediately! Thanks for your diligence!

Rick Brannan (Logos)

https://community.logos.com/discussion/comment/658666#Comment_658666

My database is dated 6th November (the date refers to the build date, not the publish date, so I'm not 100% sure that's the same version Rick means).

That is the correct version, Mark. We are trying to release updates in batches unless there is a compelling reason otherwise.